Jskydiver22 0 #1 August 26, 2004 OK, i got a sabre2 135 and now im starting to swoop. Dont worry im takin it slow. Right now im doin just kind of a chin up on the front risers w/ straight in approach. I think the farthest ive gotten has been about 40 feet according to someone watching on the ground. Its been pretty fun and im bein real careful with it So how do you guys think that i should go about this. for instance, when should i start doin my 90 degree front riser and stuff. --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 August 26, 2004 IMHO this is the wrong question to ask on DZ.COM because we don't know you, we've likely never seen you fly your canopy and don't know what you can and can't do. Talk to the people at your DZ and better yet, seek some canopy control coaching from a reputable coach. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #3 August 26, 2004 Yeah i guess i never thought about that. sounds like a pretty good idea. i guess i was just tryin to see what people would recomend or say assuming that i am a good canopy pilot. Which i do think i am --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #4 August 26, 2004 QuoteYeah i guess i never thought about that. sounds like a pretty good idea. i guess i was just tryin to see what people would recomend or say assuming that i am a good canopy pilot. Which i do think i am master what your learning now then move on tho the next level. get coaching. take your time. if you do it right, before you know it you will have 10 years in the sport and 3500 jumps, and be on the cutting edge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #5 August 26, 2004 QuoteIts been pretty fun and im bein real careful with it So how do you guys think that i should go about this. for instance, when should i start doin my 90 degree front riser and stuff. While 90 is less than 180 and 270, you can still generate tremendous speed off a carving 90 degree turn (I clocked 48 MPH on RADAR under my stiletto 120) and should not be taking them lightly. The answer is after you've been doing a consistantly good job on 75 degree turns which follow the same performance at 60, 45, 30, 15, and straight in approaches. "good" means having the canopy as level as it's going to be as you approach ground level, finishing on heading, and doing so accurately (flying within 1.5 inches of a centerline and being able to have both first and final points of contact within a 10 meter circle are reasonable). This requires learning to interact with your canopy and change your turn as it happens using riser and harness input at significantly higher altitudes. You shouldn't be digging out if you have to start somewhat low, and shouldn't be planing out and then surging when you start too high. Before that, you should have developed the survival skills for when things go wrong. Being able to turn at least 45 degrees during your flare to go arround obstacles is sometimes necessary. You should also be able to fly over obstacles. Before that, you should have figured out how to integrate yourself into the landing pattern so you aren't landing at the same time as any one else. You should be flying a consistently predictable pattern (use an altimeter) appropriate for the wind conditions. You should always have outs if traffic/insufficient altitude prevent a normal landing (although in practice you want to finish with a flare turn in the later case). You'll learn more with a canopy that you're familiar with, and that takes a few hundred jumps with the same parachute - I learned more in the second 300 jumps on my Stiletto than the first 300. High hop-and-pops (8000'+) are good. You'll also learn more when you're ready for a canopy. Brian's wingloading-never-exceed of 1.0 + .1/100 jumps with adjustments seems to fit well. Attend a few canopy seminars and get landing video. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #6 August 26, 2004 On other thing to add onto what Drew just said, learn the slow flight characteristics of your canopy (I got this advise indirectly from John Leblanc early on in my skydiving career). Not only will this help you save you bacon when something goes wrong in the pattern, but knowing how to fly your canopy in its slow flight characteristics is integral in the setup for a good swoop. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #7 August 26, 2004 QuoteWhile 90 is less than 180 and 270, you can still generate tremendous speed off a carving 90 degree turn (I clocked 48 MPH on RADAR under my stiletto 120) and should not be taking them lightly. No joke. Did a 90 from 500' on my Katana and got a hell of a swoop and a lot of speed. No double fronts, and even got on rears to trim in. Regardless of turn angle, when your canopy is on level with you, you're falling."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #8 August 26, 2004 Thank you guys both for the info. I definately have a lotta people out there at my DZ to watch when they can. I have been flyin in brakes a lot and turning and swoopin up high. Ive done a couple high hop-n-pops on it somwhere around sunset. (thats the best time to do those) I go on static line loads when i can to get a hop n pop in. Plus, its always fun to see the expressions that they have. i wanna get real good at the double fronts before i start anything more. So far i think my longest swoop has been about 40 or 50 feet. Well i can already tell that im gonna like this swoopin thing --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #9 August 26, 2004 I have very few jumps, thats why this post is more of a question and not an answer. I started to land with higher velocity just some 40 jumps ago. My landings are still far from what you can call a swoop. First I started by pulling both front risers after my landing direction was already set. The last 10 jumps or so I'm doing large 180 front riser carves. I try to complete them with an remaining altitude of around 80 to 100 feet. This way I have a lot of time to eventually use my "out". The last 80 feet I pull also my other front riser until I'm about 30 to 50 feet above ground. Then I completely let go the front risers to work the rest only with toggles. I don't know if this is the best way but in my opinion, it's a save way to learn to increase landing velocity because I can slowly change the carving angle of the front riser turn, change the starting altitude of the front riser turn and also change the terminal altitude in which I let go the two front risers. I'm very interested to hear some comments regarding this way to learn to swoop!Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #10 August 27, 2004 Learn to carve. Asside from learning what too low looks like, I think it is the most important survival skill for swooping. It gives you the ability to avoid sudden unnoticed obstacles and it creates a higher level of comfort with your canopy. I am never really comfortable under a canopy until I know what kind of carve I can throw and still pull it up to a nice landing. Oh yeah, hold onto your toggles like your life depended it on it. Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
