flyhy 0 #1 July 28, 2003 I jump a sabre 170, loaded at 1.1., lines got about 600 jumps (but new steering lines). As soon as I jump in a little windy conditions my canopy bumps all around and feels very unstable and too easily affected by light gusts -that are no problems for anyone else at the dz who jumps at a higher wing loading. So is this maybe a good time to downsize..? - Or is it just a matter of a reline?? Do the flying characteristics actually change so much that they affect the stability of a canopy?? I almost had her collapsing the other day (at 1500, scary!!!) because of a side gust. What's the best way to fly such a 'weak' canopy safely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #2 July 28, 2003 Sabres are rock solid canopies normally, yours sounds wrong. Please explain your problems to your local rigger and get him to do a full inspection.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #3 July 28, 2003 I say get the lines checked and replaced... also, I've notice significant improvement in a canopy's characteristics when your chest strap is loosened. It may stir up some crazy debate, but I've found that to be true. This really only works if you pull down the slider first. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #4 July 28, 2003 A few years ago I put 50+ jumps on a Sabre 170, loading it at roughly 1.2. Normally, I jumped (and still jump!) a Triathlon 175. One day, I made several jumps in some moderately gusty conditions and noticed that the Sabre had a tendency to "breathe" a little, but it was nowhere near collapsing. Can you be more specific about the collapsing you experienced? On the Sabre I jumped, I was seeing the 2 or 3 cell openings breathing, but not completely collapsing. I didn't consider this any big deal, but it did make me appreciate my Triathlon's stable cell pressurization even more. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 July 28, 2003 "I almost had her collapsing the other day (at 1500, scary!!!) because of a side gust." Really? How do you know it was a side gust? Wish I had those skills. At 600 dives (on 575 spectra) your canopy is in need of a reline. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #6 July 28, 2003 first have your canopy checked for proper line trim. if that checks out, look at your flying. i.e. dont ride your brakes, understand the sources of turbulence and fly a safe distance from them. learn to recognize and avoid dangerous wind conditions. understand that a new pilot under a large lightly loaded canopy should not fly in the same conditins that some more experienced pilots under higher wingloadeings may consider. be safe. dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #7 July 28, 2003 First, your lines probably are out of trim. but... Two words to solve your problem: Air Locks! I was on final, side-by-side with a friend on a spectre loaded the same as my airlocked Lotus2 170. At 250 ft, we hit some major turbulence. I felt a really hard jolt that kinda scared me. I looked over and my friend was 60 ft below me and white as a ghost. His canopy partially collapsed. That was the day I learned that I really, really like my airlocks. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #8 July 28, 2003 QuoteCan you be more specific about the collapsing you experienced? I was struggling to make it back to the PLA so I was looking down when I suddenly felt... strange... just not stable... like falling down to the side. I looked up and what I saw was not square, totally out of its normal shape. I started to pull on the rear risers (dunno why, just instinct I guess) and made sure I wasn't flying over any concrete or near buildings that might have caused these turbulence. QuoteHow do you know it was a side gust That's what the tandem master said who was on the same load. I told him about my 'experience' after we landed and he said that he felt the gust under his tandem chute at the same altitude (was nowhere near collapsing though). Quotenew pilot under a large lightly loaded canopy should not fly in the same conditions .... The conditions were alright, otherwise the DZSO wouldn't let me jump - nor the tandems. QuoteTwo words to solve your problem: Air Locks What are air locks..? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #9 July 29, 2003 QuoteThe conditions were alright, otherwise the DZSO wouldn't let me jump - nor the tandems. Don't bet your life on this statement. He may not care, or just may not notice you getting geared up. YOU need to know what is safe. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #10 July 29, 2003 Depends on the DZ Ron. At my DZ ( a single cessna DZ) the DZSO knows everything that is going on. At a multi-turbine DZ, you would get a different story...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #11 July 29, 2003 QuoteWhat are air locks..? Airlocks Clicky mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #12 July 29, 2003 You willing to bet your life on that? Im not."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #13 July 29, 2003 Yea, but my DZSO is not really my problem. I jumped in conditions that I (and everybody else, incl. DZSO) thought are very suitable for jumping for the tandems, the more experienced guys...AND me! But being a little scary bitch it is rather my canopy that causes these problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #14 July 30, 2003 Reline...Reline...Reline. And have a rigger check your crossports."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #15 July 30, 2003 I have actaully found that the original Sabre, when lightly loaded it not a good canopy for turbulence. I have nver jumped a Sabre lower than 1.5 or so, but in observing many jumpers (generally lighter, newer jumpers looking for landing advcie), at 1.0 or less, jumping Sabres, they don't seem to be very happy in the bumps. This is just my opinion though. Also, do not use the tandems as a guage for your safety with wind conditions. Most tandem masters are extremely good canopy pilots, and have experience with, and are able to handle, conditions not suited for newer jumpers. Take the experience you had, and apply it next time you are looking at the wind conditions. You are your own safety officer, and need to understand the importance of that job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 July 31, 2003 QuoteAlso, do not use the tandems as a guage for your safety with wind conditions. Most tandem masters are extremely good canopy pilots, and have experience with, and are able to handle, conditions not suited for newer jumpers. True. Therefore: if the TM´s refuse to go up, that´s a red flag. Also, even if they still go up and I´m not sure, I usually ask them, cause they´ve been in the air (as opposed to ground crew). Also, if tandems are coming straight down, that´s allot of wind... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #17 August 17, 2003 Some parachutes just are not designed with any kind of extreme conditions in mind.I never got used to that feeling under any square parachute before my 3 "Jedei,s".A parachute with a higher angle of attack,tighter turn radius and good flare characteristics,eliminates some of the "Bump".Even the best designed parachute will move around in many conditions.Most notably "High Gusty Winds". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #18 August 18, 2003 I'd have to go with SABRES ARE NOT ROCK SOLID CANOPIES. At least not the old ones. I won't fly them anymore. I don't like how they handle in turbulence or having that accordian feeling over my head. I've seen incidents where sabres on two occasions folded up and dropped someone 25 feet out of the air in light rotors. You can try loosening your chest strap. If that doesn't work move to a Triathlon or Spectre for a couple hundred jumps. They are fantastic 7 cell canopies that fly through chop ten times better than the old sabres. Get rid of that canopy. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hubsu 0 #19 August 20, 2003 Get yourself softlinks so you can stow your slider down. I jump a sabre 150 loaded at 1.15, and after I changed softlinks and started to roll the slider down, all those nasty bumps doesn't make me feel like "oh sh*t!" under my canopy. The canopy feels much more sturdy under turbulent conditions than before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #20 August 22, 2003 I have got softlinks and I stow my slider, doesn't help... Had a friend with a little more experience and a heaps bigger wingloading jumping that canopy the other day.... and even he said, it's time for a reline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
