christopherm 0 #1 February 13, 2003 Didn't want to hijack Canuck's thread so... I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good swoop video that might include the set up of the turn. It seems a lot of the video out there just show the bottom end, which is understandable, but I want to be able to learn a little something more.-So, how hard is the ground?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #2 February 13, 2003 dirt -- water -- dirt.... by pier media. It's a look at the swoop nationals and shows a lot of the approaches. also, for a laugh the paraski video is absolutely hilarious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #3 February 13, 2003 Well the first thing about video is this. It is impossible to get a good idea of how a swoop is done based video of it. Different canopies on different days have to be flown differently. The Pier Media vids are great stuff, but please don't try to use them as a training aid. If you really want to go learn about swooping, go to your nearest skills camp ASAP. Always ask questions and never assume anything.Take it from someone that has hit the ground.......it is hard as hell and hurts like nothing you can imagine! Don't go there!Listo "A closed mind is a wonderful thing to waist"-me Live today as tomorrow may not come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #4 February 13, 2003 I went to Jim Slaton's school at Perris Valley. I think it's called "Evolution". I had just transitioned over to a 104 FX from a Stilletto 120. He tought me several things about when to start doing the turns, and how to get the turn done before the canopy loads up. He also told me about entering gates for swoop contests. Three months later I went to my first swoop comp and got extremely wet. That's all right though, because I learned so much more on those three jumps, than the hundred jumps prior, with exception to what Jim Slaton taught me. And by the way the water can be just as hard as the ground. Smaking into either one of those at a high rate of speed is rather painfull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #5 February 13, 2003 So wouldn't you say that by going to a skills camp that you learned some things and probably got a little safer? Live today as tomorrow may not come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proswoopingtour 0 #6 February 13, 2003 You should contact Team Extreme, Perris Canopy Flight School or PST at [email protected] the training aids you seek... SlatonAirSports.com CanopyPiloting.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christopherm 0 #7 February 14, 2003 Thanks for the advice guys!-So, how hard is the ground?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #8 February 14, 2003 hey, what is "out of the blue" dvd?? later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christopherm 0 #9 February 14, 2003 Actually I just emailed PST and they said that "Out of the Blue" showed many complete set ups, even including some 2, 3, and 4 ways.-So, how hard is the ground?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #10 February 19, 2003 Oh yes. Skills camps are the way to go, but armed with the new knowledge my learning curve took a sharp turn for the better. I'm starting to land with rear risers now, and I wish there was a skills camp in Colorado that could help me out on that matter. That's all I have to say about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #11 February 19, 2003 HookNswoop lives in Colorado I believe. He could probably help you a little. Hell, take a vacation and come to Atlanta March 5-9. Skills #1! Hot swoops, hot chics, hot coaching, hot parties..........need I say more.Live today as tomorrow may not come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #12 February 19, 2003 QuoteHookNswoop lives in Colorado I believe. He could probably help you a little. Hell, take a vacation and come to Atlanta March 5-9. Skills #1! Hot swoops, hot chics, hot coaching, hot parties..........need I say more. If I'm not mistaken, Spizzarko and Hooknswoop know each other and have work together (what with Derek doing a Tandem and Spizz videoing it). I know Hook is a hot canopy pilot and if Spizz is who I think he is (keeping in mind SDTR is not my home DZ and I've only been there three times), Spizz also flies pretty hot and fast in CO's high density altitude. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 1 #13 February 19, 2003 When is the actual qualifier for the PST? Is it the Saturday that weekend or Sunday or when? I can only make it Thursday night through Sunday... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #14 February 20, 2003 Quotedirt -- water -- dirt.... by pier media. It's a look at the swoop nationals and shows a lot of the approaches. also, for a laugh the paraski video is absolutely hilarious. I have a good one, its called Air, ground, Air, Ground, Hospital. Actually im trying to convert my mini-dv so I can post it, let everyone see what someone with 300 jumps and a stilletto 135 with a little bit of aggresiveness, looks like. Its not pretty. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #15 February 20, 2003 I would love to see this video. There's a 200 jump wonder at my DZ that won't take the advice and stick with a 150 (he's between the Sabre2 and a Stilleto). Now, I'm not necessarily a Downsizing Nazi but I'm worried about this guy's canopy control. So he flew the DZO's Stilleto 135 and is in lust with it...even though the wiped out his 2nd landing on it. I'd love to show him "Air, ground, Air, Ground, Hospital."I just wish I would've had the my camera on when I did my version of Air, Ground, Air, Ground, Hospital on jump 627 (I just ended up with a bruised ego and a limp that lasted about a week, though). --Jairo Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #16 February 21, 2003 Lyle told me that the skills camp is from sunday-friday and the qualifier is saturday and sunday. Contact Lyle Presse at [email protected] to make sure though. Why aren't you going to the Mardi Gras boogie with Sam? Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #17 February 21, 2003 I will mail you a version of my air, ground, air, ground, hospital. It even has some really good shots of my left femur looking like I have 5 knees instead of 1. Great stuff for the hard headed rookies that won't listen. It happened around jump 200 as well. The funny part is that you can see that if I had about 2 more feet, I would have had one incredible swoop. I just didn't dig when I should have. Great case for a novice to see and to understand that experience is seeing the picture and knowing when it is wrong. I didn't really do a low turn, I just didn't fly it right. PM me with a mailing address of your DZ or where ever you want it sent to. I would be more than happy to try to calm your buddy down a little. It has a great shot of me bouncing 10 back into the air. Total injuries: left femur in 5 pieces, broken and dislocated left hip, compression fractures in three thorasic vertabra Listo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #18 February 21, 2003 Quote Great stuff for the hard headed rookies that won't listen. It happened around jump 200 as well. The funny part is that you can see that if I had about 2 more feet, I would have had one incredible swoop. I just didn't dig when I should have. Great case for a novice to see and to understand that experience is seeing the picture and knowing when it is wrong. I didn't really do a low turn, I just didn't fly it right. Total injuries: left femur in 5 pieces, broken and dislocated left hip, compression fractures in three thorasic vertabra Listo I've got to disagree here just a little. A properly executed turn will not require a "dig" to get out of the "corner". you're swoop probably would have been incredible in your eyes, but the digging part bleeds of a lot of energy that you could use to go further. You also state that you didn't turn to low, which, according to your list of injuries is not the case, you did in fact turn to low causing an impact with mother earth at a high rate of speed. sorry to hear about the injures, but I'd be a bit careful in how high you turn for that double-toe- dragging, chick-loving, wuffo-admiring scream along the beer line Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #19 February 21, 2003 no....I actually had plenty of altitude. I fixated on the ground instead of looking out ahead of me. It is clear on the video that I never touched the toggles. The canopy was flying flat but just sinking a tad. My injuries came from forward speed more than vertical speed. Most of my injuries occured the second time I hit the ground. I was dazed by my first impact, but the second one is when I hit the hardest. I started digging just as I hit the first time which "ballooned" me back up into the air. I felt my back break and my hip dislocate on the second impact. I landed right on my left hip/butt. My shoulders crunched forward as I head butted myself in the nads. The first impact was the femur breaker because I tried to slide it in and my knee caught the ground which "exploded" my femur. I believe that I did the typical "femur buster" manuever on that one. ListoLive today as tomorrow may not come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #20 February 21, 2003 yeah, ouch..... it's always the second hit.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #21 February 22, 2003 no worries now though, I have recovered and made almost 500 jumps since then. I started back on a larger more docile canopy and worked my way back down to the small stuff. I am currently jumping a stiletto 120 @2.0 I took a lot of pain and persistance to get myself back in the air, but I am a firm believer of "getting back on the horse". To this day though, I am very leary of the "snappy" hook turns. I prefer the long high pressure carving turns that build the best speed and offer the safest means of "bailing" out if I need to. I still watch my video of the "incident" at least once a month to remind myself of what I did. It has kept me from doing it again I can tell you that much. It has also kept a few of my buddies who wanted to "rush" things from doing it quite so agressively. ListoLive today as tomorrow may not come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christopherm 0 #22 February 22, 2003 You know, your incident reminds me of a guy at our DZ who has pushed himself pretty far, pretty quickly. The bad thing about it is that he won't ever listen to anyone about safety. He had a cypress fire, (two canopies out), and has pounded in like three times... no broken bones yet . Anyway, his last incident, he did a fairly nice turn with good enough altitude. Everything was going smooth he just never flaired an inch. WHAAAP!, right into the gravel path. Somehow he got up and walked away. Target fixation is a bitch -So, how hard is the ground?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listo 0 #23 February 22, 2003 yeah target fixation will eventually hurt or kill you. I had a few close calls where I was in the "corner", was digging like crazy, skimmed the ground causing dust to fly up and then ballooned 20' back into the air. I would never listen to anyone when they would tell me that I was going to kill myself. Luckily I just ended up with broken bones. I could have just as easily been dead. I never learned anything until I taught myself the hard way. Sometimes when someone is amped up about getting good, they lose focus on safety or how dangerous what they are doing can be. Most of the time someone like that doesn't see themself as being good, it is more of an issue of trying to get good. The only thing I can suggest is to keep talking to him in a way that isn't degrading and ask him to slow down. The more you tell him he is going to get hurt, the more he is going to let what you are saying go in one ear and right out the other. It is a funky mindset or trance of some sort for some people. It was for me. Just pray that he doesn't kill himself. Listo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BluDvn222 0 #24 February 26, 2003 Chris, Sounds almost like the pot calling the kettle black, if you know what I mean. Did you ever find out details about that video? When I looked up "Out of the Blue" it was some movie with hollywood people in it. I'd be interested in something like that too! Mechalechahimechahineyho! "How do you like my groin to your foot style?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
