Is Crossfire safe ??

[JJohnson 0]

I have not jumped the Crossfire2 so I cannot comment on it. As Atair has said, their canopies fly a size larger. After demoing the 120 and 105, I agree. The 120 was a bit more docile than the Crossfire 119 I had. But the 105 was a touch more extreme. Don't get me wrong, when I jumped the Crossfire I liked it and it was the best canopy I had jumped up to that time. So for point of comparison, I'll compare all three:
Openings. Cobalt 120 and 105 were more consistently on heading. Most openings were dead on, a few at 90 degrees off. Openings were soft without being slow. By changing my pack job I could get a consistent 700 foot opening, with the two stage deployment. (which by the way does take a little getting used to.) The Crossfire was a sniveling bastard that made my ass pucker. Icarus says they could speed it up by a smaller slider. I tried every packing technique known to speed it up. As for on heading, the Crossfire was good, the Cobaly was just better. Crossfire was always a little off heading, but nothing to make me think it was a rotten canopy.
Riser pressure: Cobalt was much lighter front riser pressure, both 120 and 105. The Crossfire was modified, so this will explain the increased riser pressure of the Crossfire.
Perhaps the Crossfire2 is better, I don't know.
Dives in front risers: I could maintain a dive on the Cobalt all day, and the dive was good steep and aggressive. Recovery arc was long. Crossfire was a harder to get into the dive and harder to stay there. Once I let go of the risers, the Crossfire came out of the dive real quick.
Flare: Cobalt had tons of flare. I down winded one on the 105 at Elsinore this weekend in about 8 to 10 mph winds. I set my feet down too early and turf surfed it out. But there was tons of flare left and I should have flown it out a bit further. At the end of the turf I popped the brakes and found myself a foot in the air. In no wind conditions it still set me down like a feather. Big swoop and great pop-up at the end.
On the Crossfire I never had this kind of flare power.
Full flight: The Cobalt 120 flys slower than the Crossfire 119, the 105 is faster. Here is where I say that the Cobalt 120 is more docile than the Crossfire 119. Glide ratio was great on all three. On any of the three I would have no worries getting back from a long spot in rear risers. Turbulence was handled better on the Cobalt than the Crossfire.
Toggle Turns: Crossfire has less oversteer than the Cobalt, the Cobalt turned faster and tighter than the Crossfire. Neither canopy was twicthy, but the Cobalt was more responsive to toggle inputs.
Packing: Cobalt packs like a dream, Crossfire was like wrestling a greased anaconda.
Lines: despite the advantages with the new lines I prefer spectra over vectran or HMA. When my canopy flies funny, I know it's time to re-line. I don't want to figure it out by breaking them. I'm not pro-swooper, so I can live with the increased drag and pack volume....at least for now.
For me the biggest thing is customer service. Icarus dropped the ball with me and Atair has not. Icarus had lots of stories and excuses, Atair has been straight up. They have not promised me anything they could not deliver, Icarus has made promises they had no intention of keeping.
JJ

[JJohnson 0]

You are correct. Brand loyalty plays a big role. I have jumped PD products, Icarus and others. I liked Icarus products, but I did have a problem with one of them and I did not like the way it was handled.
Atair has to date been straight forward and reasonable with me. After looking long and hard I choose the Cobalt. Primarily because I really liked the performance and Atair took the required steps to keep my loyalty. Icarus did not.
JJ

[Engovatov 0]

>Atair has been straight up.
If by "straight up" you mean bashing competitors on public forums, dropping hints of BOGUS NASA
"tests" and other F.U.D., then yeah, maybe..

[PhreeZone 15]

Ok... lets get this thread back to the point.... is a Crossfire safe....
The Crossfire is updated.... call Icaurus to get the word from the horses mouth. Call Atair if you want answers from them. Call PA if you want their version of events. All are open on the phone and more then willing to talk to you.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[JJohnson 0]

All I said was they were straight up with me. I read every post I could find on their product, talked to friends about their canopy choices, PM'ed people on the side...all before I ever jumped a Cobalt. In none of the threads did I find that Atair was being vindictive towards other canopy makers or claiming anything outlandish. Had I percieved this attitude, I probably would never have even looked in their direction. My perception was that Atair claimed to have a good product. In phone calls to them, Dan never once even used a competitors name in comparing canopy characteristics. I had to name the canopy I wanted flight differences on.
To date yet, Dan and Atair have come across to me as well spoken, knowledgeable on their product and the industry in general and not afraid to voice their opinions.
The Cobalt performs as it is stated......and it exceeded my expectations. It performed better, in my opinion than a Safire, Crossfire or Stiletto. I choose not to go to an airlocked canopy or a cross-braced. The Cobalt is a canopy that I can jump and progress with until I go to the next stage. And when that time comes I'll certainly look at all my options again.
Atair has been better in dealing with me than Icarus ever was, and I gave Icarus months and months to shit or get off the pot.
As for bashing the competition.....name one company that does not in some way do so, or make claims that sound a little too good. The proof is in the canopy and Atair delivered what they promised.
MHO
JJ

[Yoshi 0]

I have a crossfire 149 that did have the line mods. Before any mods were made the canopy flew fine (but I wasnt putting the input types explained to cause the problems) Now the canopy flies very nice. it is a little less ground hungry (flatter glide path) and the turns are still about the same as before. the only noticeable difference is that the front riser pressure is much more stiff after the line mod. I only wing load this particular canopy at 1.5... I have on the otherhand flow the 119 with no problems. It flew like a dream. After talking with Simon Mundell or icarus canopies about the problems experienced my mind is at ease with the precautions taken as well as the new line being the crossfire 2, which will be my next canopy. I do suggest, on the otherhand, that if you do buy a used crossfire you get the serial number and cross check it with the recalled list. if it is on the list make sure that the previous owner has had the mods made or will have them done before selling it to you or will compensate for the price if the mod is not made yet. BTW my 149 crossfire is on the market and it has been checked by riggers as well as had the line mod.
-yoshi

[prost 0]

Ok thanks for the I love atair spill, but can we stay on subject.

[skycat 0]

Lets see, had a crossfire on the Mod list that was affected, traded it in for a new one that was built in Spain and not affected in anyway. It has been test jumped with Maximum front risering and it didn't even twitch, front riser presure is fairly light, if I can pull it down it is light. Have had no problems with it other than the brake lines came from the factory set up for front risering and since I don't normally do that I had them shortened. Jumped a crossfire 2 of the same size, again light front riser preasure, faster turns, even more flare, not twitchy but was actually able to harness steer. It had been test jumped and was extremely stable just as my crossfire 1 is. I have not jumped a modded canopy but I have seen one test jumped to try and make it collapse and it couldn't be done. If you want more information PM me.
Kelli

[JJohnson 0]

They asked I answered. No I love Atair spiel, just my opinion. A canopy is only as good as the company that stands behind it, my experience was that Icarus screwed the pooch. I didn't bash Icarus with specifics, name call or finger point.
So kiss my ass.
JJ

[Engovatov 0]

> They asked I answered. No I love Atair spiel, just my opinion.
>A canopy is only as good as the company that stands
> behind it, my experience was that Icarus screwed the
> pooch. I didn't bash Icarus with specifics, name call or
> finger point.
> So kiss my ass.
*They* asked whether Crossfire is safe, not about your yet unexplained and unknown grudge against Icarus reps and your personal preferences. Your answer was irrelevant, thus stupid.
As for my reply - yes you can find (though somewhat toned down by moderators) Dan's (cobaltdan) statements amounting to Crossfire being a flying deathtrap, that he is out to prove it is fundamentally unsafe and responsible for the death of his friend (I assume Lisa G.) - by means of a NASA and "other space agency"(?) commisioned tests - and that he expects Icarus to go under in a matter of months. This, unlike your yet to be explained problems, is a fact, sir, and it does not amount to "being straight" dealing with competitors.
If you think your rude language and dimeanor helped in improving Atair image, my best guess would be that you are mistaken.
(P.S. I am not a parachute expert, and I do agree that Cobalt is a very high quality parachute)

[freeflycracker 0]

Well said.

[freeflycracker 0]

Engovatov -Well said.

[JJohnson 0]

Look man, don't start any shit with me. We ain't at an English boarding school so don't play that rude demeanor bad language game.
In my original post I answered whether I thought the Crossfire was safe...it is. I also suggested that the Cobalt be looked at. No bullshit.....just based on MY experience with both canopies.
When asked for my comparison I gave it. My comparison also includes how I was treated by the company whose product I was buying...both Icarus and Atair. My job is not to make either of them look good or bad. I don't work for either of them. Looking good is their job.
I did not give any details of my FACTUAL grudge with Icarus...(with Simon...not a rep.) because it does not matter. I'm sure that every skydiver out there has a complaint story with some company...Despite that, these companies still sell their products to other skydivers.....why? Because they treat some of them right. So what is important is how you are treated. That will determine if you continue to do business with that company.
As for what Dan said concerning Icarus.... sorry again bucko, but that is not what I said. I said I looked up posts concerning the Cobalt...not Dan...not Dan's feelings on Icarus. In those posts concerning the Cobalt....IT'S performance and comparison to other canopies....I found everything to be pretty decent.
I did not need to look up anything on the Crossfire....I was jumping one.
You SIR have a problem. Do you enjoy nit-picking stupid shit and blowing them out of proportion? Get a life ya dweeb.
JJ

[skymedic 0]

Jeff, just ignore em man...I know what you were trying to do...I dont have a beef with eather...of the companies...he just wants to blow upthe little shit...
Cheers
marc
Come a little closer and i'll butter your popcorn

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Look man, don't start any shit with me. We ain't at an English boarding school so don't play that rude demeanor bad language game.

Nope, not an English boarding school, but these are moderated forums and we do have a few rules. One of which is no personal attacks and no name calling. Expressing your opinion is fine, just keep it out of the realm of personal. Okay?
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[skymedic 0]

I think it was a bit of both of em playing not nice there bytch...
Cheers
marc
Come a little closer and i'll butter your popcorn

[skybytch 259]

Quote

I think it was a bit of both of em playing not nice there bytch...

Agreed. My comments apply to Engavatov also.
If anyone wants a refresher on what isn't acceptable on these forums, see here.
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[JJohnson 0]

BUT MOM!!!!!!! He started it!!!!!!!! He called me stupid and earelephant....or something. I only called him a dweeb.......I'm sorry......don't make me go to my room.
JJ

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

don't make me go to my room.

I don't mind going to my room.....as long as she gives me a well deserved spanking first. Lisa....I have been naughty!!!!
You guys be nice!!!!!!!!
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Enough already. This is another prime example of a thread gone horribly wrong. Keep the arguments to PM please.
As for Crossfires being safe or not, I think we have had plenty of
fine answers. Personally, I think the Crossfire is a great flying canopy. I have not flown a "post mod" Crossfire, nor a Crossfire 2, but the original one I flew had very similar characteristics to a Cobalt and was not "bucky" or eratic in a dive. Still, I was standing right there when Lisa went in and that experience, along with that of others right around that same time frame gave me a really bad taste.
I would definitely not purchase a used main that I had not test jumped and wrung out completely from high altitude. Like I have said before: every single main I have ever jumped flew differently, even in identical size and model.
Chuck
OK, once again: keep the threads on target. If you want to discuss something off topic, just start another thread.
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