Opinions on the First Talon Container?

[Viking 0]

I was at the DZ today and a guy had a black Talon that fit me pretty damn well and can hold a 210 main (Pretty much what i will be lookin for) Do you guys know of any issues this container has? The DOM is 95.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[scotts 0]

I have a Talon (dom 95) and i'm very happy with it. Since it is my first rig, I can't compare it with anything else other than student gear. I replaced the soft cutaway housings and reverse risers. Go to Rigging Innovations website for more info.

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[Grumpy 5]

My first container was a Talon. If you intend to so any sit-fly you'll probably need a rigger to show you how to stop the velcro reserve flap being blown open (easy fix). Otherwise, it's a top rig. I've never heard of anyone having any problems with them. I put about 400 jumps on mine and loved it!

[Viking 0]

This one had only tub tabs. Did they origanally have velcro??

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[scotts 0]

My reserve has a tuck tab.

[Grumpy 5]

Tuck tabs are newer and better. I can't remember what the DOM on my first rig was. I guess it was earlier than '95. Sounds like the one you are looking at is the same generation as what I'm jumping at the moment (DOM '97)
This version has better reserve protection, better riser covers (tuck tabs) and if it's got hip rings then the comfort is improved too.
There are heaps of them being jumped at my DZ and I haven't heard of a single problem with them. Do check that the fit is good (have you had it suspended and sat in the harness? How does it feel? Make sure the yoke isn't so wide that it can slip off your shoulder) I've done 600+ jumps on mine. It still works great. It still looks great. I wouldn't have held onto it for this long if I wasn't completely happy with it.
I've had some small (and mostly cheap) mods done to it over time to improve the security for freeflying but they aren't strictly necessary if you're staying on your belly. These are;
a little bridle cover added
bigger "beaver teeth" tuck tabs put on the main flap
side tuck tabs on the reserve flap
a low profile reserve handle fitted
Leg straps changed to the Talon 2 design (improved comfort)
Hope this helps

[pilotdave 0]

How much does he want for it? Even if it fits perfectly, just be careful not to overpay. If you plan to get a cypres, is it cypres ready?

Dave

[rendezvous 0]

I own a Talon 2. Bought it as my first rig and have about 80 plus jumps on it which include belley flying and attempts at free flying. Haven't faced any issues with the container. It's been great up until now.

[Viking 0]

the rig has a cypress already in it. not sure on the DOM or when/if it had its 4 year check.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like you are thinking of buying a '94 Talon.
Since I worked at the Talon factory from 1994 to 1997, perhaps I can provide a little background.
The first Talons debuted in the mid-1980s, with 6 reserve flaps and a fair amount of Velcro. The first Talons were similar to Vector 2, with a few minor improvements. Talons were the first rigs with tuck tabs on the main pin flap and over the years they replace more and more Velcro with tuck tabs.
Like most manufacturers it takes Rigging Innovations 2 or 3 years to work the bugs out of a pattern set. For example, by 1990 they had refined all the different sizes of original Talon and started on the Flexon. While the Flexon was responsible for many innovations including reserve pin cover tuck tabs and harness rings, it contained too many tuck tabs and came with a terrible packing manual. Flexons never sold very well because few people understood how to pack them.
In 1994, Rigging Innovations introduced a completely new Talon. It shared no parts with the original Talon. The '94 Talon was more of a simplified Flexon with trough style riser covers. It has a 4 1/2 flap reserve container and uses the Stealth pilotchute out of the Flexon. The '94 Talon was a huge improvement over anything anyone had built before. I jumped my '94 Talon for 3 years, then sold it to my friend Dave. Hint, Dave is still a friend.
In January 1997, Rigging Innovations introduced the Talon2, which was just a '94 Talon with all the minor pattern glitches cleaned up.
My last task at Rigging Innovations was to write the packing manual for the Talon 2. That manual incorporated all the tricks we had learned while packing Flexon, '94 Talon, Talon 2 and Genera containers. Hint, if you are packing a Flexon, ignore the Flexon manual and refer to the Talon 2 manual instead. The Voodoo manual is just a Talon2 manual with a 2 page insert.
In conclusion, the '94 Talon you are considering buying is a good rig. Since it was built in 1995, all of the pattern bugs were corrected before it left the factory, so it is almost as refined as a Talon2.

[polarbear 1]

My first container was a Talon 1, made in 1996. It was a good container. The (minor) issues I had with it were:

1)It originally had soft cutaway housings. $18 and a trip to the master rigger solved that.

2)The main pin cover had "walrus teeth" tuck tabs that I didn't think provided the most solid pin protection. I never had any trouble with this in freefall.

3)The main toggles were susceptible to having the brakes lock. It is hard to explain without pictures, but the RI toggles are not made the same way as others (with a grommet through which teh steering line passes). Instead, there is a loop of fabric on the toggle. This loop produces a bulge on the toggle and if the brake set loop passes over the bulge when setting the brakes, the brake will not release whn tension is placed on the steering line. RI had a service bulletin about this.

This problem is easy enough to avoid with a little extra attention during packing. You could also get main risers from a different company that had a different toggle design.


All in all, I was very happy with my Talon.

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[riggerrob 558]

Let's clarify Polarbear's terminology here.
First of all, R.I. quit building original Talons long before 1996.
I suspect that Polarbear is referring to a '94 Talon.
Secondly, the problem with some of the steering toggles on '94 Talons was that canopy manufacturers continued building steering lines to match 1 inch wide toggles for more than a decade after 1 inch wide toggles fell out of fashion. The simple fix is to follow R.I.'s service bulletin and sew the brake locking eyes slightly smaller.

[polarbear 1]

Last year I wanted to order a new set of risers from RI. I asked them specifically about the toggles (which were 1/2 inch wide and were stiffer than other toggles); they said those toggles were standard on Talons. I recently repacked a reserve in a 1998 Talon 2; it had the same toggles on it (and they were original equipment). My Talon was built in July 1996 and the markings on it (the serial number label and the monogram on the ring cover) identified it as a Talon (NOT Talon 2). It is true that there were no observable differences between my Talon and my friend's '98 Talon 2. Perhaps RI didn't switch to the "Talon 2" moniker until sometime after they started making them?

Again, I was very happy with the container. All pieces of equipment have small nuances that you won't like; the issues I had with the Talon were minor.

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[riggerrob 558]

Let's see if I can clarify this.
The differences between a Talon 2 and a '94 Talon with all the updates are insignificant.
At arm's length I cannot tell the difference between the two.
When we started building Talon 2s in January 1997, they were basically '94 Talons with all the bugs worked out. There were a few minor changes to the RSL and the smaller yokes were adjusted slightly.
On the other hand, there are huge differences between '94 Talons and earlier Talons. The earlier Talons had more in common with Vector 2s (i.e. 6 reserve flaps)..

[steve1 5]

Viking,
I bought a 94 Talon a couple years back from Square1. It had over a 1,000 jumps on it but was still in great shape. It was a little faded but other than that was almost perfect. I only gave $200. for it. I only noticed one thing that could be a potential problem and it was the bottom right closing flap had a rigid corner that might catch a bridle line if you stuffed it in too far. On my rig if you stuff the bridal an inch and a half further than usual it could catch around this corner. A rigger might want to install a bridal cover to prevent this. Other than that I think they are a great container (very well built!). Steve1

[Jasmin 0]

I love my Talon 2 ("Brat"). My first one was (unfortunatley) stolen a week before my conversions....not happy Jan!
Its comfy, pretty....loud (orange red and purple) and freefly friendly.
Did I mention that I love my talon2....I love it more than my gf.....
Oh and the Talon FS? (only by PA at the moment, look out USA its on its way)
I wannna have that things baby...or I'm at least hoping "Brat" does!?!
Ooh thanks Parachutes Australia!

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[skybytch 259]

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Oh and the Talon FS? (only by PA at the moment, look out USA its on its way)

Talon FS 3.0 is available in the US now.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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I was at the DZ today and a guy had a black Talon that fit me pretty damn well and can hold a 210 main (Pretty much what i will be lookin for) Do you guys know of any issues this container has? The DOM is 95.

Viking... Rob does a good job explaining the pre/post 94 Talon and later 97, Talon 2 line in his posts, above.

Myself, I jump a Talon T6 DOM Jan 94... thought it was 95, but just went and looked and was reminded it was 94. Anyhow, I've put over 1500 jumps on my container and haven't had a problem. Its always has had a Raven II reserve in it. I've packed a PD190, Sabre170, Sabre150 many times and have paked a Sabre-2 170 and Stilletto 150 in it... the Sabre150 and Stilletto 150 both packed up rather "soft" in it... closing loop just long engough to stack 3 gromets on top of it... so, I'd not recommend that in a T6 long term.


One thing I'd suggest though that you look for on the rig if you buy it that someone here reminded me of reading all the replies is the old soft housings that used to be on it. Originally, my rig had soft housings, but at some point I had what was called the hybrid mod done to it... its been a few years since I had it done... R.I. was still down near Perris, not Eloy, so its been a few years. Anyway, the hybid mod only replaced the soft cable housing around the yoke, for the left riser cut-away cable, with a hard housing, but left the soft ends. I decided on the hybrid mod at the time because I found it more of an issue that it was difficult (not impossible, just a moster pain) to route the left riser cut-away cable with the orginal soft-housing, but much easier with the hard housing around the yoke. With the hybrid mod on my rig, I've chopped my main many times on the ground to keep from getting drug in high winds and in the air once to get rid of a spinning ball of trash mal and not had a problem. However, if this rig still has soft cable hosings, I'd recommend the full up mod which replaces all of the soft cut-away cable hosings with hard housings... especially if you're jumping high performance canopies by today's standards.


Some riggers think less of Talons then other rigs. Just my opinion, but I think this is mostly because of the reserve pilot chute configuration that uses a conical spring of a type that requires the rigger to "Collapse the pilotchute while stuffing the fabric INSIDE the coils." This is unlike other rigs / reserve pilot chutes where those systems' manufacturers instruct otherwise, but the point is that's a different system with different packing instructions.


Anyhow, talk to your local rigger and see what he or she says.

Also, as always, if you're not a rigger yourself, having a rigger look over any used gear before purchasing it isn't a bad idea.

[Viking 0]

Wow is this an old thread.

Thanx for the advice ZigZag.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin