Zennie 0 #51 April 16, 2001 Quotewhich jumpers are at risk for this dependency? hard to tell, although some (like the coach above) are pretty obvious. one test that i have is to ask someone to jump without a cypres, just one jump, whatever type they feel most comfortable doing. if they refuse, there's a good chance they are relying on their cypres more than they admit.Funny you say this. Because just this weekend I did what I said I would never do... jump a rig w/o a Cypres. I'm building up a rig and one of our packers had a Sabre 150 for sale and offered to let me jump her rig. Didn't really have a whole lot of choice since I don't have a reserve yet for my rig.So I jumped her Racer sans Cypres and pulled at about 6000 (mainly to have a chance to play around with the canopy). Pretty much belly-flew the whole way and just watched the tandem that went out before me (which was kinda fun).------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #52 May 2, 2001 This debate crops up over and over again....Personally, I have a Cypres, I could afford one and I never wanted to be in a situation where I ended up thinking, 'Arse...wish I'd splashed out the £700....THWACK!'However, it's your own choice, I think we are all intelligent enough to be aware of that...Which doesn't mean it's not worth discussing...I think the comments about having a Cypres making you more reckless are a bit off the mark though, really...This is nothing like having an airbag in your car! (Maybe that stat relating to airbags and ABS just indicates the type of wealthy company car tossers who drive like it's a penis extension....whatever )One thing to think about, which no-one has mentioned, is that even if you have to rely on a Cypres, you could still get badly hurt...and if you think the Cypres is the answer to all your prayers you are wrong.Imagine what your body might look like after your Cypres saves you because you're unconscious for some reason....so you take a downwinder into concrete on a small F111 reserve without being able to flare.....same goes if you can't fly your canopy for any kind of injury.Yes, it might prevent a 120mph impact, but to assume 'everything will be ok' because you have a Cypres, and to use this as a subconscious excuse to jump like an idiot...well...please don't tell me you really think skydivers DO that?God, I HOPE they don't anyway.....Emma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #53 May 2, 2001 QuoteIn my case, I'll jump rental gear.In my case I would jump my own gear without a cypress before I jump rental gear. Hands down, absolute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #54 May 3, 2001 QuoteIn my case I would jump my own gear without a cypress before I jump rental gear. Hands down, absolute.And you have DARN good reason too!!NEW AND IMPROVED!!!http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ditch9276 0 #55 May 3, 2001 i disagree your opinion, why you wont jump without it, 11 years ago there´s no cypres on the market at all, and the other aad´s were bullsh*t. and every jumper must be able to cutaway and pull the reserve. i don´t like a bomb on my back!!!!!DITCH>volo ergo sum< Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #56 May 3, 2001 Quote11 years ago there´s no cypres on the market at all11 years ago there were more No Pull/Low Pull fatalities. He won't jump without a CYPRES because he wants to reduce his chance of dying due to NP/LP. If you think that means he's an unsafe jumper.... don't jump with him.Quotei don´t like a bomb on my back!!!!!What have you done about the one in your car? It produces just a little more heat than a CYPRES fire...Blues, squares,PTiger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #57 May 3, 2001 Quote11 years ago there were more No Pull/Low Pull fatalities. He won't jump without a CYPRES because he wants to reduce his chance of dying due to NP/LP.Specifically, I want to be covered if I'm ever rendered unable to pull (e.g. knocked unconcious, or some other freak occurence).I'd note, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, that I've already broken that "rule" when I took my new canopy for a test spin in a Cypres-less container.I really love my equipment, so I'll prolly jump it while the Cypres is being serviced (4 years from now ). I'd just do more high-pull solos.------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #58 May 4, 2001 I like the airbag analogy. If you rely on it to protect yourself from dumb driving, you're a fool.A cypres fires at about 800 feet. Your reserve opens in about 300, at best. That leaves 500 feet to go. That is about 2.5 to 3 seconds before it would have been to late to pull your own reserve. It is and should be a total last line of defense. I like the last line. Not something I would ever want to use, but if it is there. I will likely walk away, if it isn't there, I will be carried away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trmnljnky 0 #59 May 6, 2001 i don't have an AAD. probably never will. thats my choice. the one thing that really bothers me is statements like this: 'i'm not worried my AAD will save me', scary statement, don't you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #60 May 7, 2001 So those without a Cypres, does anybody have an RSL? A guy died today at Elsinore. Had a Mal, cutaway...... didn't have either. Go count the pieces. Personally, I don't give a shit weather you jump with one or without. Just don't brag about it in a public forum. It's a safety issue, and a personal decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #61 May 7, 2001 Quotei don't have an AAD. probably never will. thats my choice. the one thing that really bothers me is statements like this: 'i'm not worried my AAD will save me', scary statement, don't you think?The anti- AAD crowd keeps making this statement. But is there any hard evidence that there are skydivers out there who really think this way? Is there any evidence that even one skydiver is adopting a more lax attitude because s/he has a Cypres? I agree that a more lax attitude can be deadly, but I have not seen any evidence that a Cypres causes ANYONE to adopt a more lax attitude about safety.Speed RacerBrew Skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy62000 0 #62 May 8, 2001 I just bought a cypres and put it in my rig. It doesn't change the way I jump and I will never rely on it to do my job. It is simply there for added protection from unknown circumstances. If I have a malfuction I will use the emergency procedures I practice. A cypres does not replace being heads up but there are definately circumstances where even if you do everything right you may still need it. The reason I bought a cypres is just in case something that is beyond my control leaves me unable to pull. If I am conscious I will be pulling handles. I am careful about the people I jump with, but sh*t happens and even the best can get in trouble. If I'm on a jump that for some reason goes bad and someone hits me hard enough to leave me incapacitated I would rather the cypres cut my reserve closing loop and hit the ground downwind on concrete under a good canopy in half brakes than impact the earth at 120mph. I would jump without a cypres and not worry about it, but if you can afford one I would buy one. It will not keep you safe and there is no substitute for good training and awareness during a dive, but murphy can find his way into any situation. Even if you have the best training and are jumping with the best skydivers in the world something could still happen and it would be better to have a little insurance from a high-speed impact with the ground than none.Blue Skies,Adam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trmnljnky 0 #63 May 8, 2001 I'm not anti AAD. I just choose not to have one, and will never taunt anyone for not jumping with out one. Yes I have a RSL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #64 May 9, 2001 All this aad/cypres arguing is crap. First off parachutist had 2(count em TWO) student deaths listed in a row that had fxc 12000 that failed to do their job. Cypres works end of story. Anyone claiming to have a misfire has been proven wrong by airtec. (check PIA's website for the tech stuff). Put a cypres in your rig. If you dont need it, its not there. If you do, guess what....your alive. Whats your life worth to you anyway. And this crap about getting slammed if you cant steer your reserve, any a-hole saying that doesnt need a rig cause they think they have a better chance of winning a 120 mph head on with a big ass planet! For people that need to be smart some of us sure are stupid. John the angry skydiverEdited by johnny1488 on 5/8/01 07:52 PM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #65 May 9, 2001 QuoteAll this aad/cypres arguing is crapIF IT'S NOT SCOTISH,,, ITS' CRRRRRRRRAAAPP!!!!!(ROLL THE RR'S)And by the way I'll have you know my lifes worth two COUNT THEM,,,TWO twinkies and a ho-ho!!!!! lighten up people this is a discussion not a war!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #66 May 9, 2001 >The anti- AAD crowd keeps making this statement. But is there any hard evidence that there are skydivers out there who really think this way? yes. a jumper who admitted to his friends that he would not jump without a cypres died when he bailed out of a plane at low altitude and essentially waited for his cypres to fire. he had admitted to his friends that, in an emergency, he didn't know if he could handle the pressure, and so got a cypres to save his life. he bailed out below arming altitude, and the cypres did not fire. he would be alive now if not for his cypres.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joolee 0 #67 May 9, 2001 I do jump with a Cypres (because the kit I am borrowing happens to have one), but I often wonder how effective it would be if someone was unconscious - most likely spinning wildy on their back? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donna 0 #68 May 9, 2001 Quote Put a cypres in your rig. If you dont need it, its not there. If you don't need it, it might think you do anyway and you might have a 2 out situation. Please don't ever just get a CYPRES and forget about it. Read the manual and know the equipment you are using. Know the things you should about it.... pro and con.Also, I have heard some controversial discussions on some of those CYPRES misfires.I am not anti-CYPRES. I am just for heads up CYPRES use. Don't use it blindly and don't rely on it.Donna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #69 May 9, 2001 QuoteI often wonder how effective it would be if someone was unconscious - most likely spinning wildy on their back?I don't know about the spinning on the back part, but I know it's saved at least one (and actually I think more than that) person who was hit by another diver and knocked unconscious. Check the Cypres saves pages.If I'm knocked out, I'd sure like for it to at least try to get something out for me. Better than nothing at all. Even if it only gives me a 25% chance of surviving, that's better than 0%.------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #70 May 9, 2001 Quotea jumper who admitted to his friends that he would not jump without a cypres died when he bailed out of a plane at low altitude and essentially waited for his cypres to fireOK. This is totally the wrong reasoning for why we have Cypres' (BTW, what's the proper plural of Cypres?).I see the Cypres as something akin to an airbag. I don't drive around like an idiot banking on the fact that my airbag is going to save me. It's just a last line of defense in case disaster strikes. Airbags (and safety belts) won't replace common sense & heads up driving, but weird things happen. If it increases my odds of surviving a disaster, I (as well as my friends and family) want it there.It's amazing how many times I'm asked by whuffos "What if you can't open your parachute? Like if you pass out or something." (Yes, I've been asked this) I respond that I have a device which will open my reserve for me. They seem impressed that we seem to have (most of) our bases covered.------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #71 May 9, 2001 QuoteSo those without a Cypres, does anybody have an RSL? RSL yes, CYPRES no... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #72 May 9, 2001 Oh how perfect. I'm just the opposite. You are truly the Yang to my Yin. RSL - noCypres - yes------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #73 May 10, 2001 >but I often wonder how effective it would be if >someone was unconscious - most likely spinning>wildy on their back . . .From watching several students pull in just that position, I can tell you that a ripcord-activated parachute (like student mains and most reserves) still works well 90% of the time.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #74 May 10, 2001 In reply to:Johnny1488:SNIP>And this crap about getting slammed if you cant steer your reserve, any a-hole saying that doesnt need a rig cause they think they have a better chance of winning a 120 mph head on with a big ass planet! For people that need to be smart some of us sure are stupid. Hi Johnny,Sorry, I hope you aren't referring to me as an a-hole re. my comment about getting slammed by a reserve you can't steer?If you read my post properly you'll see what I am actually saying is that (intelligent) skydivers DO NOT rely on their Cypres to the extent that it would make them become more reckless in the air.The reason for this is that (intelligent) skydivers are aware that a Cypres-fire is not a good thing - although of course, infinitely preferable to going in! And, being aware of this, would NOT jump like an arsehole and risk knocking themselves out because EVEN IF YOUR CYPRES FIRES YOU MIGHT STILL GET HURT.As I said, I have a Cypres. However, it does NOT make me a more reckless skydiver because, even though I hope it will save me if for whatever reason I CAN'T pull, I NEVER exit an aircraft thinking, 'Well, if it all goes tits up, the Cypres will sort it out'. Just as I don't chuck my canopy into the bag like a sack of washing thinking, 'Well, if that one doesn't work, I've got a reserve'. Using your reserve is not IDEAL under any circumstances. In fact, my car has an airbag but I don't drive around thinking, 'Hey, that truck'll get out the way in time...and if it doesn't...Hell, I've got an airbag!'What I am saying is that anyone with a brain doesn't skydive recklessly because they have a Cypres in their rig - it's a last resort. But thanks for calling me stupid, stupid. We're on the same side here, Johnny.Doh.Emma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #75 May 10, 2001 Quote>The anti- AAD crowd keeps making this statement. But is there any hard evidence that there are skydivers out there who really think this way? yes. a jumper who admitted to his friends that he would not jump without a cypres died when he bailed out of a plane at low altitude and essentially waited for his cypres to fire. he had admitted to his friends that, in an emergency, he didn't know if he could handle the pressure, and so got a cypres to save his life. he bailed out below arming altitude, and the cypres did not fire. he would be alive now if not for his cypres.-bill von OK bill, I stand corrected. I guess its a big world, and sometimes its difficult to fully comprehend the amount of stupidity that can be out there. But it sounds to me if this guy was that stupid, skydiving was not for him & if this incident didn't kill him, something else would have, Cypres or not. By his own admission, he said that he didn't think he could handle the pressure of an emergency. If that's the case, this guy should not be a skydiver. Ultimately I believe his own attitude/lack of brains was the problem here, and I don't believe that jumping without a Cypres would have helped him in that department. With his mentality, he is(was) an accident waiting to happen. Sorry if that sounds cold, but I think its the truth.Speed RacerBrew Skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
