Shut up or not?

[dragon2 0]

So, earlier today I was sitting in the plane for a tandemvideo with a to me unknown solo jumper sitting in front of me. He was wearing a camera helmet.

Said helmet was a skate-type helmet with soft ears, no single-point cutaway system on it (not even possible on a helmet like that, AFAIK), and on top was mounted a contour HD that was also connected home-rigging-style with a steel cable to the helmet.

Since I had a couple minutes to talk to him about it, I did. He said he had never had heard any remarks about the helmet the way it was, and that he'd had the helmet looked over by another camera flyer and that it had been declared safe. I said it was not and that if I were him I'd get it fixed real soon, and I told him why.

I didn't see the jumper again after finishing the tandemvideo, which was what I was kinda afraid of and why I talked to him on the way up as I though his was a fairly dangerous setup.
However another instructor scolded me later in the day for talking to him right before a jump, making him nervous (which I didn't even see but the other instructor said the solo jumper was trying to remove the steel cable on the way up for a bit).

Now I'm a pretty new instructor but have been a cameraflyer and camera go-to gal for a number of years. So my point was made more with that in mind than as an instructor, but then again this was not a newer jumper (he has a couple hundred jumps and had been jumping that setup for a while) and I thought the situation demanded action on my part.

What would other instructors/camera flyers have done in this situation?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[obelixtim 100]

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However another instructor scolded me later in the day for talking to him right before a jump, making him nervous

Thats rubbish right there. If he had a couple of hundred jumps and was jumping with a camera, he had no business getting nervous just because you gave him a bit of free advice.

If you see something that doesn't look right, you should always speak up. I've kicked quite a few jumpers out of the plane before takeoff when they've showed up with crap they want to take on the jump that they've designed and made themselves without reference to anyone who knows about these things.

Remember, they could be endangering others besides themselves....

Flags, cameras, boards, all sorts of crap. I've seen it all. You name it, some numbskull will try it. It can be done safely and correctly, but some people just think its easy, but can't see the potential outcomes.

Better to piss someone off, than to be looking at a smashed carcase and be thinking you should have piped up earlier.

Don't sweat it.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[VideoFly 0]

While on the plane advise might not be better than advice given prior to boarding, it is better than condolences for a skydive gone bad. If he was concerned about what you said to the point of doubting that he was safe, all he had to do was seat belt the helmet to the plane and jump without it or if that was not an option, he could have landed with the plane. It is not too unusual to see horribly dangerous camera set-ups. Someone needs to speak up, no matter how inconvenient the timing is.

[stratostar 5]

Don't want to hear shit about your shitty set up then don't jump a shitty set up..... seems pretty simple to me. You know your going to start to see if you have not already more and more of this type of crap.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Hellis 0]

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Said helmet was a skate-type helmet with soft ears, no single-point cutaway system on it (not even possible on a helmet like that, AFAIK), and on top was mounted a contour HD that was also connected home-rigging-style with a steel cable to the helmet.

Not sure how the chinstraps are connected on that helmet, but my Benny half is pretty much a "skate helmet".
And sure you can attach a cutaway system on them.

[davelepka 4]

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If he was concerned about what you said to the point of doubting that he was safe, all he had to do was seat belt the helmet to the plane and jump without it or if that was not an option, he could have landed with the plane.

That was my first thought. Don't tell a jumper about a safety concern because it might make them nervous? How about DO tell them about a safety concern because it might make them dead? I'd take nervous over dead any day.

Besides, if this guy couldn't figure out to just take the helmet off or ride the plane down (if he was worried enough that his nerves were going to effect his performance) then he shouldn't be jumping a camera in the first place. Jumping a camera will introduce new problems to a skydive, and if you can't see though them and figure out that job #1 is a safe skydive, and that getting it on video is a distant second, it's time to shelf the camera helmet.

[dragon2 0]

Thanks everyone, for settling my doubts
Of course I try to spot issues like this before boarding, preferably way before, and usually I succeed. F.i. this weekend I talked to a visiting jumper with a go-pro on a longish mount, no cutaway, RSL and only 120 jumps earlier, about how he could make that whole setup safer, by showing him other helmets etc. (Plus the fact he needs some more jumps for camerajumping, at least over here.)

That one felt way better in my mind.

But yeah, a jumper having a problem which I could have done something about, at the very least warned him, would not sit well with me in any case. And the other instructor is not the boss of me

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DSE 3]

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But yeah, a jumper having a problem which I could have done something about, at the very least warned him, would not sit well with me in any case. And the other instructor is not the boss of me

Hopefully you'll never have the day where you didn't say enough, and someone is badly hurt or worse. It's difficult at times, knowing stronger word or action could have prevented tragedy.

[BoogeyMan 0]

Lotsa of jumpers feel he same way about jumpers, especially Tandem cargo carriers, who don't wear a helmet.

[peek 20]

You have the jump number, the ratings, and the experience to say anything you want when you see something is not right at a drop zone!

Don't let anyone try to convince you that it is not proper for you to get involved in a drop zone's "business" when it also involves safety.

Skydiving isn't "corporate America". It is a sport where people need to look out for one another.

[jimmytavino 16]

Bingo !!!!!

well said, Gary....

jmy

[crashtested 0]

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Not sure how the chinstraps are connected on that helmet, but my Benny half is pretty much a "skate helmet".
And sure you can attach a cutaway system on them.

That is the best cutaway system i have ever seen!!
EVER@!!! EVER!! EVER!!! WHOOP WHOOP

To the original thread...
As an instructor YOU do what you think is right.. untill somone can come up with a valid reason why your wrong... :)

[tdog 0]

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However another instructor scolded me later in the day for talking to him right before a jump, making him nervous

I think you did the right thing, telling him your concerns. Only thing, when someone is on a plane and the choices are: 1) Jump as is, 2) Ride plane down, or 3) Leave the item on the plane and jump without it... Perhaps the instructor/mentor needs to finish the advice to the jumper about the pending jump considering when someone is on the plane they are committed to making a quick decision. "Hey look, I am not happy at all about that helmet, but what are you doing on this jump? Ok, you can minimize your risk on this jump by doing these things, and after this jump lets figure out a better way to bolt that on..."

[fencebuster 7]

+1. You did what needed to be done. Jacked up is jacked up. If he figured it out after you talked to him then you did him a solid.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[matt3sa 0]

It's difficult to judge without seeing your interaction with him. Bottom line for me is that if he's licensed his gear preferences are his choice (or the S&TA's) if he's soloing. If you were tactful about it and didn't sound cocky then it's definately for a good cause. I will say that I've been to other dropzones where staff naturally assume that you're jumping equipment that you shouldn't be and start very untactfully ridiculing people because they don't know you. They have a certain cocky stigma to them like their shit doesn't stink and just feel the need to solidify their status as an "important" skydiver. I guess what I'm saying is that it's all about how you communicate your thoughts and opinions. If their decisions are going to directly impact the safety of others (realistically), then certainly something needs to be said. Just my two cents.