ozzy13 0 #1 October 16, 2009 i know DZs offer different progressions. There are pros and cons to each one. I want to know what you think? ThanksNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrwrong 0 #2 October 16, 2009 We have a higher "drop out rate" among studenst who have prevoiusly done tandems (compared to students who never have jumped before). And that doesn't just apply to AFF students, earlier when we also did SL that number was even way higher. And by drop out I do not mean that we reject the students. The students just stop to show up.“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw He who dies with the most toys, wins..... dudeist skydiver # 19515 Buy quality and cry once! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #3 October 16, 2009 The best schools use a variety of methods at different levels, because no single method is the best. For example, tandem is the best way to get students past that huge first psychological step. Then IAD (or static-line) is good for teaching the basics of exits and canopy control. Then wind tunnels are the best place to teach freefall survival skills. Late in the process, a half-dozen jumps with freefall (PFF or AFF) instructors bring all those skills together. Finally, a few coach jumps help finish off requirements for the first license. Pitt Meadows uses a mixture of tandem, IAD and PFF. Usually students start with a tandem, then a couple of IAD jumps before they are introduced to freefall instructors. When that wind tunnel opens - by the River Rock Casino - I am going to refuse to touch freefall students until after they have a proficiency card signed off by a tunnel instructor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #4 October 16, 2009 Tandems are great for the student to see if this is for them. Gives them less responsibility. For body poison its not so great. True AFF I think should be offered everywhere. Its not for several reasons. Money and lack of instructors are the two biggest that come to mind. kind of just wanted to see what more seasoned AFFI's preferred. Feet on ass is a common thing that i have came across and its the tandem training that causes this. When I get a student from another dz that is True AFF its not a issue at all.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #5 October 16, 2009 QuoteWe have a higher "drop out rate" among studenst who have prevoiusly done tandems (compared to students who never have jumped before). And that doesn't just apply to AFF students, earlier when we also did SL that number was even way higher. And by drop out I do not mean that we reject the students. The students just stop to show up. Why do you think that is ? ( you mean students who actually make some jumps after tandems ? go through with the initial training and jumps ? ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #6 October 16, 2009 I think he means that the student that does a tandem knows he/she likes it and finishes the program. Compared to the student that goes into AFF and after one or two jumps and then realizes its not for them.. That what I got out of what he said..Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #7 October 17, 2009 That sounds like it could be the best of all worlds, Rob. They get the intro to 'the rush' in a controlled environment via the tandem. They get the immersion for spotting and canopy control via the SL/IAD. They get a familiarization to bodyflight via the tunnel. Then, they wrap it all up with the AFF instructors/coaches.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill_K 0 #8 October 20, 2009 QuoteThat sounds like it could be the best of all worlds, Rob. They get the intro to 'the rush' in a controlled environment via the tandem. They get the immersion for spotting and canopy control via the SL/IAD. They get a familiarization to bodyflight via the tunnel. Then, they wrap it all up with the AFF instructors/coaches. It also sounds very pricey, and I know from talking to students and listening to what they are saying, cost is a big factor right now. Things are tight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 October 21, 2009 QuoteQuoteThat sounds like it could be the best of all worlds, Rob. They get the intro to 'the rush' in a controlled environment via the tandem. They get the immersion for spotting and canopy control via the SL/IAD. They get a familiarization to bodyflight via the tunnel. Then, they wrap it all up with the AFF instructors/coaches. It also sounds very pricey, and I know from talking to students and listening to what they are saying, cost is a big factor right now. Things are tight. True - tunnel time isn't cheap, but could be partially offset due to cheaper SL/IAD jumps.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #10 November 4, 2009 Tunnel time is cheaper than skydiving and you get to practice for more than 1 minute at a time. A drawback is that the tunnel time doesn't apply to license requirements for jump numbers. An advantage is the steeper learning curve. As far as body position, good TIs teach proper leg, arm and arch position. Feet on the butt is not mandatory for tandem-first students. My only dislike of tandem-first is the landings. The AFF students get the idea that butt sliding is a valid landing method.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #11 November 4, 2009 I love that! IMHO, tunnel time right after tandem would be the most beneficial in that body position is so important for SL/IAD so lets get that nailed down first. Stability in the tunnel will go a long way towards helping with stability on SL/IAD exits.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #12 November 7, 2009 QuoteI love that! IMHO, tunnel time right after tandem would be the most beneficial in that body position is so important for SL/IAD so lets get that nailed down first. Stability in the tunnel will go a long way towards helping with stability on SL/IAD exits. In a perfect world, tunnel time would precede every AFF level. That will happen around the time I finally perfect my matter-energy-matter transporter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #13 November 20, 2009 I did some training that involved a tandem, some tunnel time and then started with AFF4 single jump master. This was military, so we could do pretty much whatever we wanted, but the students performed very well. Also, the Tandem can count as L1, the 15-20 mins of tunnel don't count for anything, but made it so we all felt great about single JM AFF4. So ideal in my world: 1. Tandem to teach the landing pattern and get the experience in a safe setting. 2. 20 mins of tunnel to teach freefall skills. 3. Single JM AFF 4,5,6,7. 4. High solo. 5. 5-6 hop n pops to teach spotting and low exits. 6. Coaching program."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #14 November 20, 2009 See? We can agree on something. Sensible hybrid programs are da bomb, IMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
