Newbie Accuracy

[fred 0]

I'm relatively new to the sport, still unlicensed, but I'm looking for advice on the approach. I'm not looking to land dead center in the peas no matter what, but I'd like any advice on learning how to land in the general area of where I'm aiming. While I was doing pretty well at my home dz (probably because of some handy landmarks for altitude and distance), I found that when I got to AZ, I just couldn't land close enough. The student landing area there is a pretty long hike, and I managed to land even further. Just barely "off" the LZ.
Any advice on how to gain that altitude awareness and landing plan for that last 2000ft?

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

You might get more responses if you put this in the Swooping and canopy Control forum. The best advice I can give you is to keep to a left (or right) landing pattern, and take note of what the winds are doing. If you're going to overshoot, do S turns, but only if you're not going to cut other people off (ie. you're the only person landing in that area). I got it through practice. Good luck !!
You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!!

[lummy 4]

Fred,
I'm nowhere near being an authority on this but I will repeat what I have been taught. When coming in to land, look more forward as opposed to straight down which is common. Try to find the point that neither moves away from you nor seems to be moving closer. That point that seems to stay fixed is where you will land pretty much. You can adjust by half brakes to get more distance or small S turns to bleed off altitude
One thing for me that made a big difference was not relying on my altimeter for when and where to start final. I did have over 50 jumps before I was weaned of the "I'm at 300 ft, time to turn"
I'm anxious to hear what the more experienced jumpers have to say in regards to this.....
Make up your own ending,let me know just how you feel....

[TheMarshMan1 0]

Lummy has some good advice....I'm not an expert on this either, so don't listen to me...:
Like Lummy said, pick your spot to land. If it moves up...you're gonna land short of it, and likewise...if it moves down, you're gonna overshoot it (unless of course...you do something about it).
Theres not gonna be much you can do if it moves "up" too far- but in my opinion, the key is to keep it from doing so in the first place. Oh, and the altimeter. The last time I look at mine (usually) is to set up on downwind...after that my head is on a swivel watching for traffic and I use my eyeballs to judge my altitude. Like I said...I'm no authority on this, so lets here what everyone else has to say.....
Life's a bitch- be its pimp....

[Kirils 1]

You might want to check out "Fly Like a Pro" video. It's a pretty good video on spotting for landing. Also, Cleveland parachute in Parkman Ohio has a VR simulator that is great for improving canopy control skills. They can be reached at 1-800- TLC-JUMP.
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[Engovatov 0]

What worked for me is to try to look at the surface without fixating on any particular spot - just relax you eyes. You will notice, as was already mentioned, that different landmarks move in you field of view - some will be going up - you will not reach them, some will move down - you are about to fly over them. One spot will not move - you will land about 30m past it (as your speed will increase a bit near the surface, where wind is likely to be slower, and you will surf a little (or a lot, depending on what you do). But do NOT look directly at this spot - when you fix you attention you will not notice whether it moves very effectively. Then you speed up or slow down your canopy, as your instructor tells you (I used either front or rear risers to increase penetration, or float back a bit) Or pick up a better spot..
To reiterate - do not fixate on a particular landmark - if you stare at the horizon you will notice how the earth moves past you better with your peripheral vision, and then you will just feel where you are about to land..

[PhreeZone 15]

Good point... object fixation. Lots of jumpers have gotten themselfs into the "I don't want to hit that bush, I don't want to hit that bush, I don't...... " while stating at the bush then, crash right into it. Never concentrate on one object or spot.
Keep scanning for better or differnt landing spots if something makes you have to abort the original spot (dog running loose, kid running in the LZ, dust devil, etc)
Also keep your head on a swivel looking for that one person that never can follow a pattern or the hot shot swooper that is going to hook right infront of you.....
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Just please don't get into the habit of 'S' turns on your final. People have died because of this. Even if you do it at a Cessna DZ and are the last jumper out and the highest puller, it could develop into a habit and if you go to a convention or turbine DZ, could turn out to be a disasterous one.
The idea of a left/right hand pattern is very good one, just for a safety standpoint since it is a predictable landing set up.

[tlshealy 0]

Fred,
A lot of good advice in the other posts, if your at a busy DZ just get into the pattern and follow , but if your by yourself, and have room, try turning into the wind at about 500' over your target area, then look at the angle of your penetration at full glide. You can then turn around finish your base and final, then set up that same angle to your target area. If your getting out at the end of a jump run and your not making it back to the LZ, there's not much you can do but get as close as you can and at a couple hundred feet , slowly turn back into the wind and look for a nice place to land. If you think your long on opening , don't mess around with your canopy, unstow your brakes, point towards the DZ and pump your rear risers a little to keep your altitude.
Good luck and have fun!
Tad

[Jabeln79 0]

Quote

If you think your long on opening , don't mess around with your canopy, unstow your brakes, point towards the DZ and pump your rear risers a little to keep your altitude.

I dissagree with this advice, I might be wrong but what works for me is that if your long dont unstow your breaks you actually fly more horizontally with the breaks stowed then by releasing them . Try it some time go for a little bit with the breakds still stowed then release them you will feel the canopy decline faster than before. but remember to release them by about 700'. And if you still not going to make it keep the brakes stowed and pull down on the rear risers.
Blue Skies
Joe
"When they say jump you say how high" RATM

[Beachbum 0]

Quote

you actually fly more horizontally with the breaks stowed then by releasing them

I'm still too new at this to know, but based on what I've heard so far, wouldn't that depend on the canopy?
As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

I'm still too new at this to know, but based on what I've heard so far, wouldn't that depend on the canopy?

True...differen't things work on differen't canopies. I find that leaving the brakes stowed works well ONLY when going downwind back to the DZ. If I'm heading into the wind I probably won't get much penetration with the brakes stowed. Most opinions I have heard say that unstowing the brakes and putting a little pressure on the rear risers is the best way to make it back from a long spot. How much? That you must figure out on your rig.
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[lummy 4]

Ahhh. but borrowing from another thread, you might want to look up at your canopy to make sure it's ok if you are going to bypass the controllability check. True?
Or am I talking out of my ass... again?
Make up your own ending,let me know just how you feel....

[Jabeln79 0]

I agree clay. When flying back into the wind unstowing the breaks would probably work best. For me if your way up wind of the DZ and pointed toward the DZ, on canopies that arent overloaded, with the wind at your back blowing to the DZ leaving them stowed works great. But I geuss its different for everyone.
Blue Skies
Joe
"When they say jump you say how high" RATM

[Shark 0]

Fred,
Sky U has a decent tape on approach/landings. Skydive 150, I think. The Fly Like a Pro is alright, too. I think the best thing to do is talk to your local instructor or S&TA. That's what they are there for. Other than that, check out the SIM, it gives a little advice. Most of all, practice.

[fred 0]

Some info:
I'm not concerned about the long spot. I had the jump where it was all I could do to get back to the dz, and it was probably the closest I ever came to a short walk back.
I'm having trouble with being 2000' in the air, and having time to get anywhere over the dz I want. I need to set up the 1000' run to go downwind, that 500' turn crosswind, and that 200' upwind approach.
If my altimeter isn't accurate at those altitudes, how do I know when I'm at the right altitude? Maybe i'm far too afraid of turning too low. I don't know.
Any advice?

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Suggestions...
1) pull higher
2) work on your spotting skills (and when to ask for a go around, and when not to)
3) enjoy the exercise from walking back? I certainly do! This is more of a general comment on making it back from a bad/long spot than your accuracy question..(based on the sometimes ugly winds we've had at SDC this winter and some interesting places I've ended up landing because of those winds) - so please don't take it as lecturing:
If you are questioning your ability to make it back at 2K feet (due to long spot, bad winds, etc) and may have to resort to risers and brakes to get extra distance - you may want to start ID'ng alternative landing areas between you and the DZ - I'm starting to get into the habit of picking my landing area(s) at 2K and the landing spot at 1K. There seems to be the risk of tunnel vision in trying to get back and passing up what could be a great landing spot in favour of getting closer, resulting in a tighter landing than nessacary. As one of the AFP Golden Rules goes, Land Safe, Not Close. Not that I am implying anyone here is guilty of this - well aside from me of course - I even got a finger wagging from the DZO for it - I slid further from the downwind landing than most of the pocket rockets got in swoops that day *heh*
Oh and an altimeter is a back up to your Mark I, Version 1's - namely your eyes. If you can discern depth (in other words the trees look 3 dimensional, not painted on the landscape) - you're below 1,000 feet. Personally, I feel you should break yourself of the habit of using the altimeter to plan turn altitudes as soon as comfortably possible and start using your eyes to judge the times to turn and landing spot - the idea being, your eyes should be spending as much time as possible during the approach sequence looking for other traffic and steering clear of it. If you have to downwind at 1K, try to remember what your frames of reference (tree clusters, hanger, cars, river, etc), look like at 1K, then repeat at 600 and 200 (or whatever your turn times are). Again, personal opinion, so please shoot me down, if you disagree.
The lady from Alti-2 said the max allowable error on the Altimaster was like +-200 feet at typical freefall altitudes and something like 50 feet at canopy altitudes (I think she said this - I didn't write down the numbers - so please don't quote me, if you want to know, contact Alti-2). If in doubt, contact the vendor and send yours in for chamber testing (or travel to a boogie Alti-2 is at and ask them to chamber test for you on the spot). You could also borrow a friends alti, if they feel it is accurate, and wear it on your other hand - have a glance at the two while at 2K and 1K and see if there really is a serious discrepancy, as you suspect - unless, of course, both are out of calibration - then you're in trouble *heh*.