dks13827 2 #1 August 18, 2009 According to Bud Sellick's book SKYDIVING, there were 3 deaths in 1960, 1 no pull, 1 low pull, 1 drowning. That was for 60,000 jumps. There were 10 proficient freefallers in the U.S. in 1955, over a thousand in 1960. The first 4,300 military training jumps caused 111 injuries, 1 in 38 jumps. The first 174,220 military jumps caused 6 deaths, 1 in 29,000. I know that Airborne troops have few fatalities these days.. but still have their share of landing injuries, a bunch !! A funny scene during an Airborne training jump is a Mae West and the jumper does nothing. The loud speaker will yell at him, 'jumper with Mae West, deploy your reserve now !!! '. About 5 to 10 reserves will open up !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lucky508 0 #2 August 18, 2009 Any idea the date by which the first 174,220 military jumps had been made? Just curious because on Feb 16 1944 on one jump alone 9 troopers were killed at Camp Mackall. This was the jump when the 551st PIB was dropped into a lake on a night jump. This tragedy prompted the change to the quick release harness commonly called the "Dial of death" by military jumpers for years to come. I spoke with Dick Fields of the 551st who was on that jump about it a few weeks ago. The 551st also made the test jumps out of Waco CG-4A gliders. In case anyone is interested here is a good link about the 551st. http://www.insigne.org/551-history.htm sorry to kind of derail the thread. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SivaGanesha 2 #3 August 18, 2009 QuoteAccording to Bud Sellick's book SKYDIVING, there were 3 deaths in 1960, 1 no pull, 1 low pull, 1 drowning. There were 10 proficient freefallers in the U.S. in 1955, over a thousand in 1960. The first 4,300 military training jumps caused 111 injuries, 1 in 38 jumps. The first 174,220 military jumps caused 6 deaths, 1 in 29,000. I know that Airborne troops have few fatalities these days.. but still have their share of landing injuries. I find this a bit hard to believe. They didn't have reserves in those days, so unless the mains were far MORE reliable than the mains of today, you'd be looking at more fatalities."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 2 #4 August 18, 2009 If U.S. troops jumped without reserves ( except in special circumstances ), I was not aware of that. A bag deployed airborne chute will nearly always open into some survivable configuration, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SivaGanesha 2 #5 August 19, 2009 QuoteIf U.S. troops jumped without reserves ( except in special circumstances ), I was not aware of that. A bag deployed airborne chute will nearly always open into some survivable configuration, IMO. There's an article in the current Parachutist describing a D-Day jump from "below 250 feet", although it is not clear whether that was the usual altitude for WW2 paratroop drops or if this was because the aircraft had already sustained Nazi fire and was in the process of crashing. Presumably a reserve would be useless that low, though. Agree with your second point."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 2 #6 August 19, 2009 I would agree that 250' makes the reserve nearly useless. Of course a horror story of D-Day ( at night) was of pilots so frightened ( understandably so ) that they took it down to 100' and turned on the green light. Kind of tough on the guys in back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lucky508 0 #7 August 19, 2009 I’ve talked with a great many US WWII veterans about their training and combat jump experiences. T-5 WWII parachutes were not bag deployed. They were S folded in the container like a chest reserve is packed. They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. Normal drop altitude for a combat jump was usually 500-600 feet. Very often in the confusion and stress of combat they were dropped at lower altitudes. They always wore reserves in training and the majority of jumpers wore reserves during their combat jumps but some chose not to. However, The Brit X harness parachute system was bag deployed and the Brits did not jump with reserves in WWII. The article in parachutist is about Ralph Manley. I’ve been friends with Ralph for about 4 years and gave him my copy of Parachutist with the article in it when I found our he did not have a copy. There is nothing quite as motivating as having a WWII veteran on board the plane before a jump. Ralph is quite a character. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usedtajump 1 #8 August 19, 2009 Quote I’ve talked with a great many US WWII veterans about their training and combat jump experiences. T-5 WWII parachutes were not bag deployed. They were S folded in the container like a chest reserve is packed. They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. Normal drop altitude for a combat jump was usually 500-600 feet. Very often in the confusion and stress of combat they were dropped at lower altitudes. They always wore reserves in training and the majority of jumpers wore reserves during their combat jumps but some chose not to. However, The Brit X harness parachute system was bag deployed and the Brits did not jump with reserves in WWII. The article in parachutist is about Ralph Manley. I’ve been friends with Ralph for about 4 years and gave him my copy of Parachutist with the article in it when I found our he did not have a copy. There is nothing quite as motivating as having a WWII veteran on board the plane before a jump. Ralph is quite a character. ATW, Cael +1 on that. I did a tandem jump in 1994 with an old rancher into his ranch in North Texas for a rather large cattle auction he was having. He had been a bomber pilot in WWII and had one previous jump to his credit, out of a flaming B-17 over Germany after which he spent 17 months in a POW camp. Man, talk about a tough act to follow.Oh yeah, that auction was when I learned that bull sperm can sell for more than beef on the hoof. The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #9 August 19, 2009 Quote Man, talk about a tough act to follow. In the late '60s when I was a DZO, I had an 'older' guy approach me and ask, "I've made a few jumps what do I need to do to jump here? I asked if he had a log book. He told me he did and that he was on 10 second delays. He said he had a bunch of static line jumps but didn't have a logbook for them. I told him to get his log book to show me and put on his jump coveralls. When he came over to me with his log book and dressed in some coveralls I looked him over and saw an 82nd Airborne patch on his shoulder and cloth military wings sewn onto the left front. I did a double take when I looked at the wings: there were four combat stars on the wings. I told him that I had been in the 82nd but I was curious where he bought the jump wings. He got an attitude very fast! I countered with something like, "...I'm not a fool. There can't be too many guys with four combat jumps. Are you saying you actually made four combat jumps?" He rattled off Normandy, Salerno, Nijmegen and Algeria and then said, "There aren't very many of us left." At that point, I believed him. We spent many hours over many beers listening to him tell jump stories and combat stories. He wouldn't talk about any of it until he had a few beers. We became very good friends. I taught two of his sons to jump. And, unfortunately, attended his funeral after he died of cancer. What an amazing guy he was. I'm talking about Walt Santman for those of you on the East coast and maybe jumped at United PC. Walt was one of the finest people I've ever known. RIP.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,048 #10 August 19, 2009 Hi lucky508, Quote They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. When I started jumping, in early '64, there was a local jumper who had been in the Army just after Korea and he mentioned how hard the openings were on those. He said that when the T-10 came along, they thought they were in 7th heaven. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites muff528 3 #11 August 19, 2009 Quote Quote I’ve talked with a great many US WWII veterans about their training and combat jump experiences. T-5 WWII parachutes were not bag deployed. They were S folded in the container like a chest reserve is packed. They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. Normal drop altitude for a combat jump was usually 500-600 feet. Very often in the confusion and stress of combat they were dropped at lower altitudes. They always wore reserves in training and the majority of jumpers wore reserves during their combat jumps but some chose not to. However, The Brit X harness parachute system was bag deployed and the Brits did not jump with reserves in WWII. The article in parachutist is about Ralph Manley. I’ve been friends with Ralph for about 4 years and gave him my copy of Parachutist with the article in it when I found our he did not have a copy. There is nothing quite as motivating as having a WWII veteran on board the plane before a jump. Ralph is quite a character. ATW, Cael +1 on that. I did a tandem jump in 1994 with an old rancher into his ranch in North Texas for a rather large cattle auction he was having. He had been a bomber pilot in WWII and had one previous jump to his credit, out of a flaming B-17 over Germany after which he spent 17 months in a POW camp. Man, talk about a tough act to follow.Oh yeah, that auction was when I learned that bull sperm can sell for more than beef on the hoof. My dad, flight engineer/top turret gunner aboard a B-17, was a veteran of 26 combat missions (near the close of hostilities they also participated in 3 "Chowhound" flights to Holland). When they were first issued their parachutes he said he thought to himself that there was no way in hell he would ever jump. He said they usually used all the parachutes and other gear as padding and shielding against flak as soon as they took off. During one of their raids they were jumped by Me262's and all 4 of the planes in their element were hit. He saw the plane next to theirs catch fire and as the fire spread to the rear that plane exploded and went down. They soon realized that they, too, were on fire and at that point he scrambled for his chute and prepared to help get the crew ready to leave the a/c. The sight of the other B-17 exploding changed his mind instantaneously about skydiving. Fortunately, the radioman threw an oxygen bottle out of the hole in the side of the plane and the fire extinguished itself allowing them to limp home. After I started jumping he said he was always baffled that parachuting had actually become a voluntary sport. A few years ago my brother and I offered several times to get him a ride on one of the restored Fortresses. He always declined saying that they would have to pay him to ride in one again although I think he secretly would have liked to have taken a ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #12 August 20, 2009 I'll 2nd.that one!!! We were using T-7's during the Korean war which were the same as T-5's but had the single point release harness.The first T-10's came out near the end of 1953 and that is when I started to enjoy jumping out of airplanes........POP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WGore 0 #13 August 24, 2009 We had a guy that was a member of Easy Co. 506th but transferred out after training in GA that used to jump with us in the late 70s. He started after his son took up skydiving and made 250 or so jumps. He was jumping a round and I think that the landings started getting to him. I had the honor of taking him on a tandem in the late 90s and his son and grandson came in and made a 3 way star with him. He was one of the best and most generous people that I have ever met and one hell of good guy otherwise. IIRC he had 2 combat stars. He passed the day after Christmas 07. He had been sick for awhile and his son told me his mom told his dad that he wasn't to die on Christmas Day. He died at 3:00 in the morning of the 26th. They had to have the visitation in his church because there wasn't a funeral home big enough to handle the numbers they were expecting and they were right. There wasn't anybody in that town that didn't know and respect him. He was definitely one of the"Greatest Generation".GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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lucky508 0 #2 August 18, 2009 Any idea the date by which the first 174,220 military jumps had been made? Just curious because on Feb 16 1944 on one jump alone 9 troopers were killed at Camp Mackall. This was the jump when the 551st PIB was dropped into a lake on a night jump. This tragedy prompted the change to the quick release harness commonly called the "Dial of death" by military jumpers for years to come. I spoke with Dick Fields of the 551st who was on that jump about it a few weeks ago. The 551st also made the test jumps out of Waco CG-4A gliders. In case anyone is interested here is a good link about the 551st. http://www.insigne.org/551-history.htm sorry to kind of derail the thread. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #3 August 18, 2009 QuoteAccording to Bud Sellick's book SKYDIVING, there were 3 deaths in 1960, 1 no pull, 1 low pull, 1 drowning. There were 10 proficient freefallers in the U.S. in 1955, over a thousand in 1960. The first 4,300 military training jumps caused 111 injuries, 1 in 38 jumps. The first 174,220 military jumps caused 6 deaths, 1 in 29,000. I know that Airborne troops have few fatalities these days.. but still have their share of landing injuries. I find this a bit hard to believe. They didn't have reserves in those days, so unless the mains were far MORE reliable than the mains of today, you'd be looking at more fatalities."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 2 #4 August 18, 2009 If U.S. troops jumped without reserves ( except in special circumstances ), I was not aware of that. A bag deployed airborne chute will nearly always open into some survivable configuration, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #5 August 19, 2009 QuoteIf U.S. troops jumped without reserves ( except in special circumstances ), I was not aware of that. A bag deployed airborne chute will nearly always open into some survivable configuration, IMO. There's an article in the current Parachutist describing a D-Day jump from "below 250 feet", although it is not clear whether that was the usual altitude for WW2 paratroop drops or if this was because the aircraft had already sustained Nazi fire and was in the process of crashing. Presumably a reserve would be useless that low, though. Agree with your second point."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 2 #6 August 19, 2009 I would agree that 250' makes the reserve nearly useless. Of course a horror story of D-Day ( at night) was of pilots so frightened ( understandably so ) that they took it down to 100' and turned on the green light. Kind of tough on the guys in back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky508 0 #7 August 19, 2009 I’ve talked with a great many US WWII veterans about their training and combat jump experiences. T-5 WWII parachutes were not bag deployed. They were S folded in the container like a chest reserve is packed. They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. Normal drop altitude for a combat jump was usually 500-600 feet. Very often in the confusion and stress of combat they were dropped at lower altitudes. They always wore reserves in training and the majority of jumpers wore reserves during their combat jumps but some chose not to. However, The Brit X harness parachute system was bag deployed and the Brits did not jump with reserves in WWII. The article in parachutist is about Ralph Manley. I’ve been friends with Ralph for about 4 years and gave him my copy of Parachutist with the article in it when I found our he did not have a copy. There is nothing quite as motivating as having a WWII veteran on board the plane before a jump. Ralph is quite a character. ATW, Cael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usedtajump 1 #8 August 19, 2009 Quote I’ve talked with a great many US WWII veterans about their training and combat jump experiences. T-5 WWII parachutes were not bag deployed. They were S folded in the container like a chest reserve is packed. They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. Normal drop altitude for a combat jump was usually 500-600 feet. Very often in the confusion and stress of combat they were dropped at lower altitudes. They always wore reserves in training and the majority of jumpers wore reserves during their combat jumps but some chose not to. However, The Brit X harness parachute system was bag deployed and the Brits did not jump with reserves in WWII. The article in parachutist is about Ralph Manley. I’ve been friends with Ralph for about 4 years and gave him my copy of Parachutist with the article in it when I found our he did not have a copy. There is nothing quite as motivating as having a WWII veteran on board the plane before a jump. Ralph is quite a character. ATW, Cael +1 on that. I did a tandem jump in 1994 with an old rancher into his ranch in North Texas for a rather large cattle auction he was having. He had been a bomber pilot in WWII and had one previous jump to his credit, out of a flaming B-17 over Germany after which he spent 17 months in a POW camp. Man, talk about a tough act to follow.Oh yeah, that auction was when I learned that bull sperm can sell for more than beef on the hoof. The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #9 August 19, 2009 Quote Man, talk about a tough act to follow. In the late '60s when I was a DZO, I had an 'older' guy approach me and ask, "I've made a few jumps what do I need to do to jump here? I asked if he had a log book. He told me he did and that he was on 10 second delays. He said he had a bunch of static line jumps but didn't have a logbook for them. I told him to get his log book to show me and put on his jump coveralls. When he came over to me with his log book and dressed in some coveralls I looked him over and saw an 82nd Airborne patch on his shoulder and cloth military wings sewn onto the left front. I did a double take when I looked at the wings: there were four combat stars on the wings. I told him that I had been in the 82nd but I was curious where he bought the jump wings. He got an attitude very fast! I countered with something like, "...I'm not a fool. There can't be too many guys with four combat jumps. Are you saying you actually made four combat jumps?" He rattled off Normandy, Salerno, Nijmegen and Algeria and then said, "There aren't very many of us left." At that point, I believed him. We spent many hours over many beers listening to him tell jump stories and combat stories. He wouldn't talk about any of it until he had a few beers. We became very good friends. I taught two of his sons to jump. And, unfortunately, attended his funeral after he died of cancer. What an amazing guy he was. I'm talking about Walt Santman for those of you on the East coast and maybe jumped at United PC. Walt was one of the finest people I've ever known. RIP.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #10 August 19, 2009 Hi lucky508, Quote They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. When I started jumping, in early '64, there was a local jumper who had been in the Army just after Korea and he mentioned how hard the openings were on those. He said that when the T-10 came along, they thought they were in 7th heaven. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #11 August 19, 2009 Quote Quote I’ve talked with a great many US WWII veterans about their training and combat jump experiences. T-5 WWII parachutes were not bag deployed. They were S folded in the container like a chest reserve is packed. They opened very quickly and with a terrific opening shock. Normal drop altitude for a combat jump was usually 500-600 feet. Very often in the confusion and stress of combat they were dropped at lower altitudes. They always wore reserves in training and the majority of jumpers wore reserves during their combat jumps but some chose not to. However, The Brit X harness parachute system was bag deployed and the Brits did not jump with reserves in WWII. The article in parachutist is about Ralph Manley. I’ve been friends with Ralph for about 4 years and gave him my copy of Parachutist with the article in it when I found our he did not have a copy. There is nothing quite as motivating as having a WWII veteran on board the plane before a jump. Ralph is quite a character. ATW, Cael +1 on that. I did a tandem jump in 1994 with an old rancher into his ranch in North Texas for a rather large cattle auction he was having. He had been a bomber pilot in WWII and had one previous jump to his credit, out of a flaming B-17 over Germany after which he spent 17 months in a POW camp. Man, talk about a tough act to follow.Oh yeah, that auction was when I learned that bull sperm can sell for more than beef on the hoof. My dad, flight engineer/top turret gunner aboard a B-17, was a veteran of 26 combat missions (near the close of hostilities they also participated in 3 "Chowhound" flights to Holland). When they were first issued their parachutes he said he thought to himself that there was no way in hell he would ever jump. He said they usually used all the parachutes and other gear as padding and shielding against flak as soon as they took off. During one of their raids they were jumped by Me262's and all 4 of the planes in their element were hit. He saw the plane next to theirs catch fire and as the fire spread to the rear that plane exploded and went down. They soon realized that they, too, were on fire and at that point he scrambled for his chute and prepared to help get the crew ready to leave the a/c. The sight of the other B-17 exploding changed his mind instantaneously about skydiving. Fortunately, the radioman threw an oxygen bottle out of the hole in the side of the plane and the fire extinguished itself allowing them to limp home. After I started jumping he said he was always baffled that parachuting had actually become a voluntary sport. A few years ago my brother and I offered several times to get him a ride on one of the restored Fortresses. He always declined saying that they would have to pay him to ride in one again although I think he secretly would have liked to have taken a ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #12 August 20, 2009 I'll 2nd.that one!!! We were using T-7's during the Korean war which were the same as T-5's but had the single point release harness.The first T-10's came out near the end of 1953 and that is when I started to enjoy jumping out of airplanes........POP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WGore 0 #13 August 24, 2009 We had a guy that was a member of Easy Co. 506th but transferred out after training in GA that used to jump with us in the late 70s. He started after his son took up skydiving and made 250 or so jumps. He was jumping a round and I think that the landings started getting to him. I had the honor of taking him on a tandem in the late 90s and his son and grandson came in and made a 3 way star with him. He was one of the best and most generous people that I have ever met and one hell of good guy otherwise. IIRC he had 2 combat stars. He passed the day after Christmas 07. He had been sick for awhile and his son told me his mom told his dad that he wasn't to die on Christmas Day. He died at 3:00 in the morning of the 26th. They had to have the visitation in his church because there wasn't a funeral home big enough to handle the numbers they were expecting and they were right. There wasn't anybody in that town that didn't know and respect him. He was definitely one of the"Greatest Generation".GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
