Front Mounted Reserves

[tonybrogdon 0]

Back in 1977 USPA rules required 100 round parachute jumps before allowing to jump a square. My first rig I bought was a military rig with with a T-10. I would rent front mounted reserves. Most had pilot chutes, some had automatic openers and I remember one in Petersburg, Va. that didnot have either. The emergency procedure training was if your main malfunctined, use your 1 1/2 shot capewlls to cutaway, then use both fist to hit as hard a you can both sides of the front mounted reserve until you would break free the reserve then reach in with both hands and throw it out off to the right or left. Fortunately I never had to use it. I did have an improperly calibrated automatic opener go off at 3000 feet. I was spinning so it wrapped around the lines of my T10 causing a streemer. All I could see was white. I kept pulling it down out of my face as quickly as posible until finally I freed it from my main's lnes and it fully inflated.

Tony Brogdon
D-12855

[wmw999 2,123]

Nope. Someone might have told you that, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a USPA rule. But I do remember that one guy who got a Strato-Star with about 50 jumps was told he was probably going to DIE. But he didn't.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[piper17 1]

I don't think it was "USPA rules" that said 100 round jumps were required before jumping a square. Might have been a recommendation...but I'm pretty sure it wasn't not in the BSRs.

I have a hard time understanding why a drop zone would teach "hand deploying" a chest-mounted reserve that was NOT equipped with a pilot chute preceded by cutting away. Hand deploying a chest mounted round reserve was for when the jumper did NOT cut away from the main. If you had cutaway from the main, there would be no need to throw the reserve in any direction since the main that might be spinning was no longer attached. Are you sure you are remembering this correctly?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[davidlayne 5]

The way I remember it was pilot chute attached, cut away.

No pilot chute attached, spit to determine direction of spin and hand deploy reserve accordingly.

Did they teach you to spit?

I don't care how many skydives you've got,
until you stepped into complete darkness at
800' wearing 95 lbs of equipment and 42 lbs
of parachute, son you are still a leg!

[BCA 1]

I agree. No pilot chute, no cutaway. They didn't even teach cutaways before the shot and a halfs became popular in sport jumping.

[airtwardo 6]

Did they teach you to spit?

Yup....but not just for the spin.


Spit to see if the partial malfunction was 'reserve' serious...

If yer 'hacker' goes left or right or up...pull & punch, if it goes down, everything is just ducky.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[drjump 0]

Why would you punch the reserve right and left to break it free? Wouldn't it have been much simplier to pull the reserve ripcord. while holding your left arm over the container to facilate grabing the folded canopy for 'throwing' it in the direction needed? But, as Wendy stated, if you cut a way you would not nee to throw it.
What about your body position?

[skybill 19]

Hi Tony,
Amazing! Yup, remember thoze daze and before! Funny how things go from the simple to the complex, in reserve proceedures it's just the opposite! From 'check direction of spin, pull handle, grasp canopy and throw in direction of spin, repeat if necesary-to- "Pull red,pull silver!" or as Jimmy said they took his silver reserve handle and gave him a purple pillow!! They did that to get the guys in "SAPPS" mad!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[airtwardo 6]

They did that to get the guys in "SAPPS" mad!!

Hi Bill~

I gotta wonder if the "Skydivers Against Pink & Purple Shit" haven't all retired!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skybill 19]

Hi Jim,
Probably a few, a good bunch of em' are in Air Trash!! From a "fashion statement" perspective it might be fine for some dude with a multi colored mohawk but otherwise no. I do think though that flashy colors on jump suits, rigs and canopys are good for "being seen and collision avoidance!!" Remember "Bounce and blend" colors??

Might still have a "Blast Handle" in the archives, gotta look!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[tonybrogdon 0]

Hi Jim

Don't remember spit rule.

1977 was a few years ago when I was referring about but I clearly remember if you had a malfunction you were suppose to punh both end of the front mounted reserve and throw the reserve out by hand. I didn't have to personally test it but I did observe another Petersburg skydive sucessfully do it a very low altitude.

I don't remember where the rule originated about having to have 100 jumps under a round before jumping a square but I heard it in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Virginia. My first square jump was in the winter of 1978 Dublin, Va. It was in the middle of an ice storm. The Cessna took three attempts to get airborn. I did a hop and pop and the wind was so strong I came straight down under a Strao Star 5 cell.

Back then, there was no tandem or aceeleriated free fall. You had to make 5 sucessful static line jumps before you could do a hop and pop using militery surplus T-10's with front mounted reserves. Then you graduated from 3,000 feet to 5,000 the 7,500 then eventually to 12,500 before getting off student status. After making my first 12,500 free fall in Petersburg, Va. I went to a New Years Eve boogie in Deland, Fla. I jumperd out Mr. Douglas with local 11 skygods forming a Venus Fly Trap formation.

Now Feb 28th one of my Grandaughters is making a tandem at Perris.

Tony Brogdon
D-12855

[gvmck 0]

Tony,

Cannot speak for 1977, but in the spring of 1978 I started jumping at Southern Cross in Downsville, MD. I made my first jump on a Saturday. Jumps 2-7 were made Sunday. By the end of the month I ordered my first rig, which I described in another thread (Wonder Hog, Strato-Cloud and 26' Lo-Po reserve). George Kabella ran a pretty safe operation and I do not think he took chances (too many), but I jumped that rig after inspection and test jumps on or about my 30th jump (Some ex-wife in my ancient history destroyed the evidence but there is no reason to make this up).

G.V. "Mac" McKinley (C-13630)

[tbrown 26]

I started out with the regular military reserve container and 24' reserve canopy - with a pilot chute, but no AAD on mine. The dropzone put p/c's and Sentinels on their student/rental reserves.

Then in 1977 I bought a Pop Top container and moved my reserve into it. Never had to actually use it, but it was really thin and comfy compared to the GI Joe model. And I had a really cool patch with Yosemite Sam, guns a-blazin', stitched onto the pilot chute cap. Kept that reserve 'til I bought a Hanbury rig, with a 26' reserve.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[steve1 5]

Tony,
I loaned a reserve to an inexperienced jumper to use back in about 73. I think it had a pilot chute in it if I remember right. This guy didn't know how to cut away. The only training he had was to pull his reserve if he had a malfunction.

He went into a severe spin right out of the Cessna. He openned in a spin, and sure enough he had a streamer.

So, he pulled this reserve without cutting away. It burned several holes in it as it rubbed against the lines of the streamering main chute. He landed okay even though there were holes in the 24 foot canopy......

[councilman24 36]

Probably landed BETTER because there were holes in the 24' canopy.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

in 1975 at Green County Sport Parachute Center, the student rigs I saw had 2-shots and 24' or 28' flat circular unmodified belly mount reserves with no pilot chute. Students did not 'cut-away' from malfunctions. Mals were categorized as high speed or low speed. No main canopy - 'pull and punch'. Main canopy out but fouled up 'left hand on reserve - pull ripcord-throw away the handle- reach in and grab the bulk-extend arms -throw down and into the turn'.

[tonybrogdon 0]

That was it. I couldn't remember if it had a rip cord or not. Again I didn't have to test it. We were told though to punch both ends before throwing it out.
The DZ in Petersburg in 1977 had all three kinds: ones with no pilot chute, those with Pilot chutes and ones with automatic openers.
How would you like to be in a high speed spinning malfunction and try to remember which one you had?

Tony Brogdon
D-12855

[tonybrogdon 0]

Hi Bill

I remember the "blast Handels ".

Do you remember the capewells? Pull the medal tabs, put your thumbs thru the medal rings and pull both exactly at the same time. Cold weather and wearing gloves played havoc with this system sometimes. I remember watching Mongo a few hundred feet just south of the manifest window at Perris, spining trying to release the second capwell. He finally did jus in the nick of time and got his reserve open. Needless to sat he bought a new red , white and blue rig shortly after.

Tony Brogdon
D-12855

[pchapman 261]

How unusual was it for students to jump Para Commanders using a no-cutaway, no pilot chute in the belly mount reserve technique?

One school in my area used to use Para Commanders in that way for students after they graduated from T-10's. I always thought that was a bit odd, given the Para Commander's reputation for spinning in a mal.

What was the general opinion for anyone jumping PC's with manual reserve deployment procedures?

(On a related note: So when did 1 1/2 shot Capewells start to be used, relative to "high performance" rounds like the Para Commander?)

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Peter,

By the time most dz's went to ParaCommanders for students ( oooo, way too high performance ) they had converted to pilot chutes in the gut packs.

1 1/2 shots came out in about 1965.

When I bought my ParaCommander in late '64 I was still using a gut pack without a pilot chute. I put one in about early '65.

JerryBaumchen

[piper17 1]

When CPI converted its student equipment to PCs, we switched to Strong piggybacks with the single-point release/reserve ripcord at the same time.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[steve1 5]

I started jumping a para-commander in 73. We graduated from 28 foot 7-TU to para-commanders. Heavier students might start with a T-10. I think they may have been 9-T-U's. Lot's of first jump students were getting hurt landing under the 28 foot canopies. If you knew how to do a decent PLF, they usually landed okay. That is if you were young and tough.

I knew one older guy who shattered his leg on his first jump under a 28 ft. round. He was off work for a couple months because of that. He was ancient....around 45.....if I remember right.

Then there was Hod Sanders. He made over a !,000 jumps on the same 28 ft. round. You had to be tough to do something like that. His canopy was covered with duck tape, to cover all the holes and burns. B.J. Worth told Hod that he had to get a new canopy, or he was off the team (Mirror Image). It was taking Hod too long to get back to the D.Z. on practice jumps.

Most everyone had at least 35 jumps on a standard round before going to a para-commander (Back in 73). Everyone I knew had training in cutting away by the time they went to a para-commander. I didn't know anyone who jumped that canopy without a pilot chute in their reserve....

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

That's the way I remember the progression too. In 1975 I was 20 yrs old and 185 lbs. I was jumping a 28' 7TU and hammering everytime. After I got off student status (about 24 jumps I think) I bought a 27' Russian PC. All the rigs had Capewells and we all cut-away from mals. Only the static-line jumpers had 2 shots and hand deployed reserves. Never saw anyone with a PC main and hand deploy reserve.
In 1972 I made my first jump and saw some experienced jumpers with Cross Bow rigs and 1 shot Capewells.

[AirCav 0]

"Never saw anyone with a PC main and hand deploy reserve"
------------------------------------------------------------

I did! From 1965 to 1979 I had 15 hand depolyments on PC's & PAP's. Both with and without pilot chutes on the chest mounts without any problems. A cutaway was only considered if the malfunction was not survivable as in a streamer or bag lock.

GW685,D3888,C5052,SCS843

[davidlayne 5]

Air Cav is the one who taught me how to spit when considering hand deploying a reserve.

I don't care how many skydives you've got,
until you stepped into complete darkness at
800' wearing 95 lbs of equipment and 42 lbs
of parachute, son you are still a leg!