georger 197
georger 197
Reply> Their reputations. Corporations are people.
People's reputations. The reputation of the company (Safety first!).
Here's one way it works: 'Hi Wayne. It's the 10th.
Can we roll over 20 million until Sept 8th? Sure no
problem. Wayne I need 30 mil in the PR account.
We got hit by a hijacking. Yes I know. I heard about that, was all over the news. Well let me see. I will have to go to the Board about that, and you know how the Board is about scandals? We liketo think
that things likethis cant happen. Yes, well Wayne
we need the extra money this month;. I could call
Chase. ... well let me talk to the Board. Im sure
it will float...'
and there are a million other issues. Airlines
are a very competitive business and it also
happens to cross with National Security!
No good employee is going to flip off to a reporter
or to some "amateur sleuth" and risk saying the
wrong thing. Social IQ is at least 90% of being a
good corporate employee, and a good CEO.
Now, where did the PI Transcript come from exactly. Who leaked it to the Post Intelligencer?
And if NWA thought for a second the hijacking was in inside job then that closes thedoor even tighter...
I think Safe is reading this either raising an
eyebrow or laughing his ass off .. I dont know
which.
Just want to say "Thank You" everyone -including my BABOON, for not causing a lot of static lately regarding Duane Weber or my views as they may be. You have to realize I cannot make what I held in my hands or saw with my own eyes vanish from my memory.
Know this - what I have told over the yrs was told in 1996 when I contacted the FBI. How can one DUMB broad come up with a story that explaines so many things and have only been to Wa twice in her life and not one of those time behind the wheel of a car. That second time was in 2001, 4 yrs after I had told the FBI the same story several times.
How could I possibly correlate the story I told the FBI in several conversations within 24 hrs of finding out DAN COOPER was D.B. Cooper? There is no way - I am not a genius nor am I a story teller and I had very little knowledge of the crime at that time. The more I learned the more I was convinced Duane was Cooper...the FBI is responsible for my continued efforts. Had the agent of record have not lied to me 9 yrs ago this month with my holding evidence to the contrary in my hands - I would have let it go at that time - March of 2000.
Because of this forum I have learned many things and I have shared many things. Seems like you all are back on the "butts" and in my own way I told you all after the Tie "evidence" was introduced that the FBI was using contaminated evidence and evidence they could not prove was worn by Cooper. Remember this statement I sent out below.
DNA EVIDENCE
I have to question the validity of DNA testing done to exclude individuals concerning the D. B. Cooper incident in 1971.
In the past 36 years the evidence may have been compromised. Considering that the study of DNA did not exist until the late 1980’s, it is highly unlikely that the evidence was preserved in a manner that would have protected the DNA. I therefore, would question any DNA evidence that excluded anyone without further investigation in what items were used to extract DNA and VERIFICATION that the CHAIN OF CUSTODY was maintained throughout the last 36 yrs, when dealing with and handling this item.
The only DNA evidence I consider valid would be the cigarette butts. BUT, the FBI can’t find them. There are too many questions unanswered.
My own limited research and what Duane told me - leaves me with little doubt he was D.B. Cooper.
October 27, 2007
Now there are individuals stating that if Cooper should come forward the likelyhood of the tie convicting him without the "butt" evidence - could be conceivable.
I still stand by my theory that Duane retrieve part of the money in 1979 - what it was buried in and where it was buried is all theory on my part - I have never claimed otherwise. I have went back to the places he took me and asked myself what I would do if I had been him and why did he take me to those specific place and what did they mean to him.
I never knew where he went that morning he left me at The Dalles and I figured he went down toward Mt. Hood, someone else thought he might have gone on into Washougal but I disposed of that ideal since Duane almost missed the turn. What is bugging me at this point is that ridge he pointed out and WHERE did he go that morning. Maybe to look up an old girl friend or find his daughter - but he came back soiled...where could he have gone from The Dalles and get back in about 5 hours? Looking at a map is no solution and the only time I was there was with him in 1979.
It was suggested he went into Vancouver - I discarded that idea for obvious reasons - Why stay at The Dalles? Because it was accessible to someplace he had to go....alone.
Anyone out there live in The Dalles area or near-by have any suggestions? How far is Mt. Hood from The Dalles -is there a place there someone could bury something and be able to find it 8 yrs later? What about the construction of that Dam - when was that built? Why did he mention the land after we crossed over to Hwy 14 on the WA side - he said something about Indians?
The FBI nor anyone else seemed to want to investigate a group of guys who where known to jump in the Mt. Hood area in the late 40's.
Wish I was able to make another trip out there - but driving has become something I don't like to do. Flying and then Driving a rental is impossible for me - they put all the shifts in the middle of the car and not on the steering wheel...everytime I went to put the car in reverse I was turning on the windshield wipers....that was 10 yrs ago. Dumb Broad.
NO one has to answer this in the forum and disrupt the discussion you have going - PM's are just find and the less involvement I have on the forum all lthe better for you guys and for me. Feed back on my posts are appreciated - pro or con...mostly looking for sources.
georger 197
QuoteMy resume is as follows:
I call it as I see it; I dig as deeply as I can; I don't ignore or twist for a specific gain.
If you want to stick Cooper IN the Columbia River, you have a few hurdles to overcome.
1. Even if radar tracking was less than perfect, the margin of error was +/- 0.5 nautical miles. Usually margins of error are stated as 2 standard deviations which puts the likely result within the margin 95% of the time.
A reasonable person would think that the standard deviation in the landing zone/flight's path was 0.25 nautical miles. Putting the jet 10 miles (or more) away is over 30 standard deviations.
You do not encounter such a large error without purposeful intent.
2. If Cooper lands in the Columbia river, no body was ever found. Did he make it all the way out to sea without getting snagged up somewhere?
3. If Cooper lands in the Columbia, the money would have been attached to him (unless of course you argue that the money separated from him and they both landed in the river). In 8 years time, it can only drift a few miles to where it was found.
4. Even if your armchair logic trumps the opinion of a professional geologist, you still have to account for money lying under a few inches of sand 8 years after the fact.
I imagine that you will do all you can to conquer these hurdles. That's what I mean by allowing the evidence to speak for you.
377 will tell you, this is how false convictions are made; prosecutors rationalize exculpatory evidence and they look at ambiguous evidence in a biased manner.
In my opinion, by making every attempt to alter pieces of evidence that contradict your ideal outcomes, you do yourself and everyone a disfavor.
You'd have me believe that pretty much everything is wrong... the clay layer was wrong, the flight path was wrong, the calculated time/location of the jump was wrong.
What's more likely, that all these things were wrong and you're right 37 years after the fact, or your assumptions are wrong?
Talk about statistics... I'd bet the latter every single time.
Beautiful.
377 21
QuoteGeorger. Just what do you speculate that they were covering up or manipulating and why? You do think there was a skyjacker on the plane, right? Or... do you have some doubts?
Reply> Their reputations. Corporations are people.
People's reputations. The reputation of the company (Safety first!).
How does the skyjack make NWA look unsafe or negligent??? They did a GREAT job if you look at the outcome as the grade. No injuries, no deaths of crew or pax. Not much property damage (ramp strike on landing) and a cash loss covered by insurance. I'd give them an A-.
Now if NWA thought it was an insider, then the situation totally changes. I haven't seen any indication that NWA had a clue about Cooper's ID. Employees gossip. Word gets out.
377
georger 197
QuoteSafe, I have answers to each of your points, but I'm not sure if you really want a discussion.
for instance
"2. If Cooper lands in the Columbia river, no body was ever found. Did he make it all the way out to sea without getting snagged up somewhere? "
You're aware of the, at least one, Columbia drowning example I provided of a tech exec in his plane, with a woman passenger (not his wife) where the woman swam to shore, but the guy didn't make it and was never recovered? (presumed drowned).
This was in the '70s if I remember. Tektronix guy I think it was.
You'd have to claim that all drowning victims are found.
I also provided a recent example last year of a suicide jumper off I5, whose body went all the way up to Longview I believe...found by fisherman.
On the flight path, I'm not sure who is saying the flight path is wrong, Safe. Guys like Jerry and Himmelsbach, I guess.
I don't think anyone here suggested the flight path is wrong. More that the data is unknown source.
I don't think anyone here is arguing for an alternative flight path??
You seem to lump us all together into a homogenous horde.
(edit) Safe referred to the belief "the calculated time/location of the jump was wrong. "
Yes I think that's pretty clear. Safe. The calculated time/location of the jump is wrong.
The preponderance of evidence says it's wrong. And because the people that generated it didn't have all the data at the time.
Pretty simple.
(edit) Safe: what's your opinion of the one-minute error (apparent) in the flight path markup?
Do you think that doesn't mean anything or ???
I think Safe is saying: 'take the facts we have at face value - dont change anything, they are within
allowable deviation to draw a valid conclusion'.
That would not hurt a thing.
But a few more solid facts wouldnt hurt either -
snowmman 3
My cynical self says he's not really saying anything, so he can't be wrong.
But that's unfair.
I think he's picking and chosing from available data and pretending he's not. That's fine.
I'd like to know what he's picking though. And rather than saying "everyone else is wrong therefore I'm right"
Just say what he wants to say.
Is he saying he thinks the '72 DZ map is accurate and Cooper jumped up near Ariel?
Or does he accept a one minute error?
Or does he accept a larger error, based on the oscillations vs bump thing?
I mean just saying "follow the evidence" doesn't mean anything
What evidence? The '72 DZ map??
Does anyone know what Safe's theory is, if you had to say "Cooper did this" as opposed to saying we're trying to cram square facts in a round hole?
I couldn't care less what the hole is.
It makes me think Safe really is misinterpreting all of us.
The only ones with a bias, I think are Jo, and maybe Jerry because he believes Himmelsbach. Maybe 377 has a slight bias to Cooper living, but he's really just representing that side of the coin. I guess I like that side too, but can toss it. I don't care.
I'm biased against the Wahougal river theories. I guess I'll admit that.
What is Himmelsbach's bias? Do we ignore him? He's FBI? How come he isn't considered a "fact"...he must have seen evidence we don't have, yet I think we all agree, his opinions are dubious.
How does Safe resolve all this?
He must pick and choose.
What does he pick?
georger 197
QuoteQuoteGeorger. Just what do you speculate that they were covering up or manipulating and why? You do think there was a skyjacker on the plane, right? Or... do you have some doubts?
Reply> Their reputations. Corporations are people.
People's reputations. The reputation of the company (Safety first!).
How does the skyjack make NWA look unsafe or negligent??? They did a GREAT job if you look at the outcome as the grade. No injuries, no deaths of crew or pax. Not much property damage (ramp strike on landing) and a cash loss covered by insurance. I'd give them an A-.
Now if NWA thought it was an insider, then the situation totally changes. I haven't seen any indication that NWA had a clue about Cooper's ID. Employees gossip. Word gets out.
377
How does it make NWA look bad? Guilt by association. (a) NWA makes planes - well flies
and maintains planes, offers rides for a fee. (b) people get on planes. (c) something goes wrong.
(d) NWA screwed up to allow it.
Again, the airline industry = national pride. A
vital part of the economy. Drives technology.
National security issues. Some guy gets on a plane
and hijacks it - its almost treason. And in corporate
circles it is treason. It strikes at the heart of everything sacred and important, from the corporate perspective. Hijackings cause a huge backwash
through many institutions, agencies, and corporations.
Just that simple. You're the lawyer!
(2) It looks like a targeted situation requiring
information. The flight was newly added since
August. (as per Snow's flight skeds). This was
either a coincidence or someone keeping track
or looking for an opportunity, or an inside job.
somebody
snowmman 3
Does it end with someone finding the money and planting on Tena Bar? Or Cooper planting it on Tena Bar?
I forget if Safe had some complicated float plan?
Or does he think the Duane throw decomposed money in the river story is plausible? Does he consider that evidence or is that just random possibility? I thought upon examination of the state of the money and it's decomposition, it's unlikely. I don't think Safe has seen good photos of the money. Don't know.
Maybe Safe is Cooper? Is that it?
(edit) remember: the throw it in the river story is a total fabrication. Jo never saw anything. It's just plucked out of thin air.
georger 197
He must pick and choose.
What does he pick?
Sounds to me like he thinks we are trying to
manipulate things to get Coop into the Columbia - not true. Just seems that way if it gets discussed.
I always return to Safe's early posts about how
money could have been conveyed to T-Bar. He
starts with the standard accepted FBI data set
and flight path map, and works within those
bounds - if I understand him. It sounds like he
is reminding us of the same thing all over again?
(something I have always taken at face value)
It is this very logic that drove Sluggo to finally say
(in effect to Safe) 'I dont see it. There must be a missing link'. In other words, I think Sluggo has
been working from Safe' script also - ???
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