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mrshutter45 21
QuoteQuoteI have never really believed in the dredge theory, but, after reviewing some pictures
that have been bothering me for some time now I'm starting to wonder what tails
the bills could tell? I could be way off base here but it appears to me that traces of blade
marks could be seen in the bills?
look at the picture in the lower right, it appears that the I or L has a crease in it, or a
wave. this could be caused from shifting of the bills. also take note that it also appears
to be cut on an angle from the left center upward on the bills.
Items 1,2 & 3 seem to also have creases in them as if they have been shifted in one way
or another? item number 4 seems to have been grazed or chewed as if something hit the bill?
I don't know how long money will keep it's form underwater, but, could we treat this like a buried
treasure where things need to be handled with care once they have been submerged for long periods
of time? could it be possible the bills were in a lot better shape once they came on shore. there is a
process that needs to be maintained in order to preserve submerged items. once the bills have been
soaked for a long period or anything soft submerged they would be like jelly going thru the blades
(sneak thru) I don't know and thought I would throw this out there, better than arguing?
how well would the rubber bands hold up underwater vs on land? they could have held the bills
together and deteriorated after land fall?
also appears to have a fingerprint under the Presidents head......
The blades on a dredge head are NOT sharp, sharpness would be erased pretty damn fast as it whacks thru the sand and abrades away. Did I mention they are REALLLY thick and the edges are quite rounded... the blades grind into the sediment but its the inrushing water and hydraulic action in the tube that would pretty mush destroy any paper.. especially if it was in the water and saturated and rotting already... it would just blow up and wash away to little bitty fibers..
thanks for the reply, as I mentioned it was a thought. now working in construction for years I also have noticed
it doesn't take a sharp object to cut or chew through something at certain RPM'S, I don't know what the condition
of those bills would be in after several years underwater (in or out of the bag) like I said, I could be way off, but I
feel something is right there for the story, what it is has yet to be found? someone mentioned a boat could do
similar damage? I just don't know but thought I would "throw it out here"
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
mrshutter45 21
QuoteWho did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up!
_________________________________________________
Answer the question Blevins. I thought that document was classified. MeyerLouie
I was the one who originally asked him about this question....
" I have briefly reviewed the Palmer report"
wasn't the "Palmer Report" classified? how did you read it?
his answer...
"Truth is, I can't remember if someone sent it to me, or if I found it on a search. I think it was sent to me. There are two main computers in this office, and a laptop. Also, one other computer which was taken off-line about a year ago and sits in the closet. That one is where all the Cooper files resided, although I transferred a great deal of them using a 16gb flash drive"
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
georger 197
QuoteGEORGER:
You say:
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case
Could we all agree to call it Tina's Bar as it is in the FBI web page and not Tena's Bar. It was not named after Tena Mucklow
Sure we can agree to call it 'whatever you want' ...
as soon as Washington folks decide on its name!
I dont live there! I wasnt born and raised there contrary to Blevins dead-certain mind melding.
I never said I had no agenda in the Cooper case.
You have me confused with mission-statements of ...
that other guy.
If I have any agenda these days, it is to find out
WHO is telling the truth, since I had to give up three
years ago on finding 'the truth of the case'.
If you find WHO is telling the truth: let me know!
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteGEORGER:
You say:
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case
Could we all agree to call it Tina's Bar as it is in the FBI web page and not Tena's Bar. It was not named after Tena Mucklow
Sure we can agree to call it 'whatever you want' ...
as soon as Washington folks decide on its name!I dont live there! I wasnt born and raised
there contrary to Blevins dead-certain mind melding.
I never said I had no agenda in the Cooper case.
You have me confused with mission-statements of ...
that other guy.
If I have any agenda these days, it is to find out
WHO is telling the truth, since I had to give up three
years ago on finding 'the truth of the case'.
If you find WHO is telling the truth: let me know!
Even the Palmer report refers to it as TENA BAR..
Palmer Report PDF Print E-mail
Fact: Modern day Tena Bar is severely eroded and exposing natural clay layers that run the length of the beach.
Fact: The Palmer Report discovered and interpreted a buried clay layer as man-made from the dredging operation.
Interpretation: Palmer's original report claiming the clay layer was a result of the dredging was inaccurate.
Fact: The rubber bands were found intact on the bundles of cash.
Experimental fact: All experiments testing rubber band survival in nature determined they did not last 12 months.
Interpretation: The rubber bands could not have remained intact over the several years they took to reach Tena Bar as would be required based on the Palmer Report.
Further interpretation: The clay layers beneath the beach are in fact natural occurrences indicating that the Cooper bills were not deposited there after the dredging. The rubber band lifetime constrains the arrival of the bills on Tena Bar to less than one year.
That should get some people wound up real special like.
I did not realize Dr Palmer was gone for 12 years now.. I had him for several stratigraphy and sedimentology classes at PSU
georger 197
thanks for the reply, as I mentioned it was a thought. now working in construction for years I also have noticed
it doesn't take a sharp object to cut or chew through something at certain RPM'S, I don't know what the condition
of those bills would be in after several years underwater (in or out of the bag) like I said, I could be way off, but I
feel something is right there for the story, what it is has yet to be found? someone mentioned a boat could do
similar damage? I just don't know but thought I would "throw it out here"
I don't know squat about dredges but the little I do
know I think Amazon is correct. The blade edge would
deliver a crushing destructive action more than a cut,
it seems to me. Certainly not the delicate cut that a
boat motor would deliver. And the abrasion factor of a
dredge pipe has to be real - high velocity sand.
In a flood scenario things are going to be knocking
into a block of bills riding along in the flow, which could
account for the features you're seeing? Plus if the
block of money is soft from being water logged, it
isn't going to take much of a 'knock' to abrade off
a portion of bills...
I still think deciding between flow vs dredge vs
non-natural burial (whatever that means!), has to
be approached from a different direction ...
I think this issue is undecidable at present.
Here's some more photos ...
georger 197
QuoteQuoteQuoteGEORGER:
You say:
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case
Could we all agree to call it Tina's Bar as it is in the FBI web page and not Tena's Bar. It was not named after Tena Mucklow
Sure we can agree to call it 'whatever you want' ...
as soon as Washington folks decide on its name!
there contrary to Blevins dead-certain mind melding.
I never said I had no agenda in the Cooper case.
You have me confused with mission-statements of ...
that other guy.
If I have any agenda these days, it is to find out
WHO is telling the truth, since I had to give up three
years ago on finding 'the truth of the case'.
If you find WHO is telling the truth: let me know!
Even the Palmer report refers to it as TENA BAR..
Palmer Report PDF Print E-mail
Fact: Modern day Tena Bar is severely eroded and exposing natural clay layers that run the length of the beach.
Fact: The Palmer Report discovered and interpreted a buried clay layer as man-made from the dredging operation.
Interpretation: Palmer's original report claiming the clay layer was a result of the dredging was inaccurate.
Fact: The rubber bands were found intact on the bundles of cash.
Experimental fact: All experiments testing rubber band survival in nature determined they did not last 12 months.
Interpretation: The rubber bands could not have remained intact over the several years they took to reach Tena Bar as would be required based on the Palmer Report.
Further interpretation: The clay layers beneath the beach are in fact natural occurrences indicating that the Cooper bills were not deposited there after the dredging. The rubber band lifetime constrains the arrival of the bills on Tena Bar to less than one year.
That should get some people wound up real special like.
I did not realize Dr Palmer was gone for 12 years now.. I had him for several stratigraphy and sedimentology classes at PSU
These are quotes from Tom's website?
OK. Tena Bar it will be - (even though the sign reads:
Tina Bar)
Have you read Palmer's report?
Question: How close to the wingdams will these
dredges work sucking up bottom silt? Will they suck
up material stuck in the wingdams or do they stick
close to the central channel only? If they stick close
to the central channel then how could Cooper money
have become part of that bottom sediment, to begin
with? Its just an academic question -
Amazon 7
Nope did not read it.. back in those days I had more important things to do
There used to be a sign on the road down by Frenchman's Bar pointing the way to KADOWS and TENA BAR
Then again once upon a time it was open to the public and a lot of people would hike down along the beach to the bar from the boat launch to bank fish. But like all things.. some fucknuggets pissed off the Fazios and WDFW closed off access
QuoteQuoteGEORGER:
You say:
I have no agenda in the DB Cooper case
Could we all agree to call it Tina's Bar as it is in the FBI web page and not Tena's Bar. It was not named after Tena Mucklow
Sure we can agree to call it 'whatever you want' ...
as soon as Washington folks decide on its name!
there contrary to Blevins dead-certain mind melding.
I never said I had no agenda in the Cooper case.
You have me confused with mission-statements of ...
that other guy.
If I have any agenda these days, it is to find out
WHO is telling the truth, since I had to give up three
years ago on finding 'the truth of the case'.
If you find WHO is telling the truth: let me know! ]
We do not have an emotion-con for cackling my head off!
Right! Who is Telling the truth?
To Start with:
1st book I read called it Tena's bar - Mucklow's first name is Tina. Or is it the OTHER WAY around!
Who is telling the truth?
Who is lieing?
Who is talking & knows zero?
Who is only curious?
Who is in this for the BUCKS?
Who is here just to be heard?
Most are only curious and would like to be the one to solve the case - so where does Jo Weber sit on this? You'll Never Know If You Don't Know Now!
In just enough pain tonight to give anyone who crosses my path a hard time. Since when did a biopsy become painful?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Quote
Even the Palmer report refers to it as TENA BAR..
Palmer Report PDF Print E-mail
Fact: Modern day Tena Bar is severely eroded and exposing natural clay layers that run the length of the beach.
Fact: The Palmer Report discovered and interpreted a buried clay layer as man-made from the dredging operation.
Interpretation: Palmer's original report claiming the clay layer was a result of the dredging was inaccurate.
Fact: The rubber bands were found intact on the bundles of cash.
Experimental fact: All experiments testing rubber band survival in nature determined they did not last 12 months.
Interpretation: The rubber bands could not have remained intact over the several years they took to reach Tena Bar as would be required based on the Palmer Report.
Further interpretation: The clay layers beneath the beach are in fact natural occurrences indicating that the Cooper bills were not deposited there after the dredging. The rubber band lifetime constrains the arrival of the bills on Tena Bar to less than one year.
That should get some people wound up real special like.
I did not realize Dr Palmer was gone for 12 years now.. I had him for several stratigraphy and sedimentology classes at PSU
Had to stop applauding your post so I could acknowledge the post. I had done my own testing in the early days with water, jars, pots and acid soil from beneath the azaleas at my other home.
The squirrels played havoc with the ones I did in a 3 inch deep platon the deck. I had huge oak trees, azaleas and crape mrytles and the squirrels thought it was heaven and so did I.
I loved that back yard - quiet and peaceful and private. Hurricane took out one large oak and it took the tower behind me with the Ham Operator's equip including the fence between in our back yards.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 21
Jo wrote
QuoteHurricane took out one large oak and it took the tower behind me with the Ham Operator's equip...
Now that's true tragedy. Akin to castration.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
I have been telling my story since 1996 and the only book I had read was a few pages of a book mostly fiction with some truths. Max Gunther's book based on a 1/2 dozen phone calls few ph calls from a woman who seem inebriated and was extremely coy. A woman whose voice was the same as the voice of a woman who at one time was married to Weber....Max heard this recording in our next to the last phone call and asked me how to find her.
He went to CA supposedly on business - but more likely for treatment. When he returned we had ONE last phone conversation and exchanged one last letter. This is when he outlined for me what was true in his book. Then we said GOODBY! Max, I miss you!
When I contacted the FBI on May 24 of 1996 I had only read about 13 pages of that book and I knew what Duane had been trying to tell me and the more I read (with what few facts there were in the book) I kept calling the FBI back. They never responded until PI in the area progratis helped me put together some pictures and documents to send to Ralph Himmelsbach. Ralph turned the letter over to the FBI.
I do not have that letter out, but I still have a copy of it and notes of my conversations with the FBI.
From day one I have told the same basic story. Of course I learned names of places and where they were located....and other details over the yrs. BUT go back to what I told the FBI before I had any of that knowledge - before I read Himmelsbachs story and Tosaws!
AS I have stated before I was the first person to ever explain the money on Tena's bar, but I did not know I was doing that 17 yrs ago.
17 fricking yrs and the FBI did NOT listen to me - just another crack pot! Duane in March will have been gone 18 yrs and this has gone on way too long. There is NO other explanation for the Tena's bar find other than what Jo Weber told and she didn't even KNOW Tena's bar was the place Duane took her until she got to WA in 2001, but I have never waivered and I never will. If the FBI can PROVE Duane was NOT Cooper - more power to them.
The Time of Day just might put Weber on the damn flight! It has taken 17 yrs for the FBI to acknowledge that Cooper looked at his damn watch. Was there something very special about that watch....he needed to make sure the fight was NOT delayed past the time the bank would be closed....was the watch so unique Tina took notice of it? So unique the FBI never made it public!
He went to CA supposedly on business - but more likely for treatment. When he returned we had ONE last phone conversation and exchanged one last letter. This is when he outlined for me what was true in his book. Then we said GOODBY! Max, I miss you!
When I contacted the FBI on May 24 of 1996 I had only read about 13 pages of that book and I knew what Duane had been trying to tell me and the more I read (with what few facts there were in the book) I kept calling the FBI back. They never responded until PI in the area progratis helped me put together some pictures and documents to send to Ralph Himmelsbach. Ralph turned the letter over to the FBI.
I do not have that letter out, but I still have a copy of it and notes of my conversations with the FBI.
From day one I have told the same basic story. Of course I learned names of places and where they were located....and other details over the yrs. BUT go back to what I told the FBI before I had any of that knowledge - before I read Himmelsbachs story and Tosaws!
AS I have stated before I was the first person to ever explain the money on Tena's bar, but I did not know I was doing that 17 yrs ago.
17 fricking yrs and the FBI did NOT listen to me - just another crack pot! Duane in March will have been gone 18 yrs and this has gone on way too long. There is NO other explanation for the Tena's bar find other than what Jo Weber told and she didn't even KNOW Tena's bar was the place Duane took her until she got to WA in 2001, but I have never waivered and I never will. If the FBI can PROVE Duane was NOT Cooper - more power to them.
The Time of Day just might put Weber on the damn flight! It has taken 17 yrs for the FBI to acknowledge that Cooper looked at his damn watch. Was there something very special about that watch....he needed to make sure the fight was NOT delayed past the time the bank would be closed....was the watch so unique Tina took notice of it? So unique the FBI never made it public!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 197
Right! Who is Telling the truth?
To Start with:
1st book I read called it Tena's bar - Mucklow's first name is Tina. Or is it the OTHER WAY around!
All I know is what the sign reads - we had a debate
about this in the thread ages ago so I finally called up
a cousin at Vancouver and asked - "... you mean that
place where people go fishing? been over there
several times chasing rowdies out ... its Tina Bar ...
spelled T I N A B A R... thats what the sign says..."
That's all I know. (this has been posted before)
He told me there had once been a bar in Vancouver
called Tina's Bar .... but had no relation that he knew
of to the sand bar ... no direct relation .... he laughed
and said, ".... call it whatever you want".
Amazon 7
+1
There are far more nits out there that are in desperate need of pickin.
georger 197
Quote
+1
There are far more nits out there that are in desperate need of pickin.
JT and I were talking today wishing we were thirty
years younger, no 20, even ten ... five!
JT: no reply permitted@!
You are the most defensive person I have ever met not to mention paranoid. There might have been a couple of posters here who went to Winkles story and posted. I read her story, but that was all.
You no longer trust individuals here at the DZ - why in the hell do you stay!
P.S. if anyone posted there as me - believe me you I do NOT post on sites that are NOT what I consider legit - and all it takes is reading 3 or 4 replies and I am out of there. Don't stick around any longer than it takes to feel a site out.
Frankly I cannot imagine someone maintaining a site they have no control over - if she let filthy posting remain she should have deleted them - why didn't she or does she have NO control over the site. On Sluggo's site he had to approve the post before it goes up.
Frankly I don't think you knew what the Palmer Report was - technically it was NOT a report at all as I was told. Just some opinions and cause and effect but with little to no technical lanuage. Since I have no way of knowing what the official Report said - I have sat out on it. But if the Palmer Report is as Amazon stated - then HIP HIP Hooray!
You Blevins have an excuse for everything and nothing is your fault! GROW UP! You blame everyone else and do not look in the mirror. One day when you wake up and look at that flection you won't be able to face it - your day of reckoning is coming and soon. Two elderly ladies will be afther you with rolling pins and pitch forks - hope they catch you.
I don't dislike you, but you need to back OFF instead of keeping on making a bigger fool out of yourself. For one I don't think you will able to face failure and you will be so embarrased you won't be able to continue to write in any medium. Please think about what you are going to do when this is all over with!
You aren't part to the Cooper story - are you able to handle
Going to bed - hope an ice pack helps this pain.....have taken my stupid pill but I am still going to take a little pain pill on top of it.
Just be careful what you post!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Amazon 7
QuoteWhat's in a name? Not that much, unless you call Mount Rushmore by the name Mount McKinley, .
I call "Mt McKinley" the far more appropriate name of Denali since that is what the First Nations peoples named it long before Europeans ever laid eyes on it.... I gave that big ole pile of rock and ice a couple of shots at killin me. BUT... Denali helped me stop smoking in 1976.. have not had a ciggie butt since.
QuoteQuoteQuoteWho did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up!
_________________________________________________
Answer the question Blevins. I thought that document was classified. MeyerLouie
I was the one who originally asked him about this question....
" I have briefly reviewed the Palmer report"
wasn't the "Palmer Report" classified? how did you read it?
his answer...
"Truth is, I can't remember if someone sent it to me, or if I found it on a search. I think it was sent to me. There are two main computers in this office, and a laptop. Also, one other computer which was taken off-line about a year ago and sits in the closet. That one is where all the Cooper files resided, although I transferred a great deal of them using a 16gb flash drive"
Here's another Great Truth, and probably not a surprise:
Understand this: I no longer trust some of you here at Dropzone. The main reason is because some of you went bat-crazy on the Regina Winkles article on Christiansen. Over 380 of the most filthy-ass comments it has ever been my displeasure to read, and many of the usernames came from people who post here regularly. Now sure...I understand that maybe your usernames were cloned, but the fact remains that none of you complained about it, even after I pointed out what was going on there several times...which denotes a tacit support of those comments. Also, I noticed many of the comments were made the same day as similar comments here on this DZ thread. Only difference was the DZ comments weren't full of filth. It didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out active participants here on the Cooper thread were doing a little extracurricular activity on a non-monitored article. To put it more simply: I took the PDF paper copy of the comments and compared them to subjects being discussed here at Dropzone. I found out these subjects were being mentioned at around the same time at the Regina article. This told me that at least some of you were doing double-duty. Posting up politely here, and dropping by HER article when things at DZ got slow. Why? Because Regina wasn't minding the store. She was embarrassed, and almost had her account deleted. So the trust thing is gone.
There were comments regarding Gayla, my parents, other people I know. HUNDREDS of comments like that. You think about that for a minute. And I'm supposed to trust people here now with possibly sensitive information?
After the comments were eventually taken down, I found out Mark Mullenberg DID read my email and review the PDF of the comments, although I'm sure he 'kicked down' the job of handling the situation. Wordpress probably responded because...believe it or not...some people were actually making references to pedophilia. I should replace the usernames with the users' REAL names on the PDF of the comments and make it public through the Cooperland article series at Newsvine. Trust me, I considered doing it, but thought better of it. Trust? Forget about it. Ain't happening. However, in the interest of basic courtesy, I asked Gayla today (she handles all the incoming AB mail) to find the file. She told me it was not sent to us by email. Someone sent us the report via snail mail in paper form. I'm not telling you who sent it, so don't ask. Where is it now? None of your business. I did read it once, not particularly thoroughly, and it's boring to anyone who isn't a geologist. Besides, now I have people telling me here at DZ it's probably illegal to even OWN a copy. Since I have no interest in it, I don't see any percentage in keeping it around. Even if I scanned the document into a PDF and made it public, I wouldn't put it past some of you to download the thing...and then make a call to the Seattle FBI. It goes to the shredder. Means zip to me anyway.
_________________________________________________
Blevins: Some people can be cruel. That's a fact. Life is not fair. But several people, several times have called you a 'vitriole magnet.' When you put yourself out there the way you do -- you're bound to take some shots. I don't find it all that surprising. You reap what you sow -- it's a law or nature. Send out some loving kindness, Blevins, it will come back to you. Don't send any to me though, I'm not that kind of guy. MeyerLouie
Amazon 7
When you choose to play in the realm of ice and rock you do not always win. I am too old and incapable of ever summiting any of the Cascade Strato Volcanos ever again. At least I got to challenge them when I was young and could revel in those accomplishments. I did Rainier 4 times, and will always cherish that mountain.
Denali on the other hand was a beast. Most people do not know that it is one of the highest mountains on earth for a climber. Unlike K-2 or Everest that sit on the Tibetan plateau... the actual pile of rock that is Denali is far higher in your approach and climb since you start out at a very low elevation. It is also up nearer to the Arctic Circle than any of the other 20,000'+ mountains so the weather is nothing to trifle with. I am sure you have heard of the old adage that every 1000' in elevation is equivalent to travelling 300 miles north in relation to temperature change.... Denali puts you 6000 miles north
sailshaw 0
TO ALL FROM SAILSHAW
Just received the final answer from 377 Mark on Tena vs Tina.
------------------------------------------------------------
It's Tina Mucklow. Period.
The sand bar has had a variety of names (or misnaming) including variations of Tina Tina's Tena etc.
73
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
Enough said,
Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]
Just received the final answer from 377 Mark on Tena vs Tina.
------------------------------------------------------------
It's Tina Mucklow. Period.
The sand bar has had a variety of names (or misnaming) including variations of Tina Tina's Tena etc.
73
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
Enough said,
Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]
Amazon 7
QuoteTO ALL FROM SAILSHAW
Just received the final answer from 377 Mark on Tena vs Tina.
------------------------------------------------------------
It's Tina Mucklow. Period.
The sand bar has had a variety of names (or misnaming) including variations of Tina Tina's Tena etc.
73
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
Enough said,
Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]
Reminds me of all those who do not know the difference betwixt
there
their
they're
377 21
Blevins wrote about Marla
QuoteI like to say that while others were checking out her derriere, I was checking out her claims.
Such virtue in the pursuit of journalistic integrity and truth...but I'll bet you were multi-tasking Robert.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Who did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up!
_________________________________________________
Answer the question Blevins. I thought that document was classified. MeyerLouie
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