DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

Um... Bruce you know I appreciate the stuff you dig up and write on. generally.
but. but really, aliens or govt conspiracy more likely than 'satanists' (by which i would mean self-styled satanists rather than people who really have the devil appearing to them, or whatever)
i agree with G the cattle mutilation is a sad thing, but unless someone is going with the Cooper-was-abducted-by-aliens theory (and yes I have seen this one floating around too) I'm not sure it has any relevance. I'm pretty certain aliens have no relevance anyway.

edited to add the wiki article on the subject, though i would really like to get back to topics of hijackers and real, proven people:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_mutilation

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

re: cattle mutilations

The FBI FOIA on their cattle mutilation investigations in the '70s is interesting to read. Lab test results and everything (along with some news articles)

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/ufoanim.htm

[snowmman 3]

How many believe the following story:

When Boris Yeltsin, then Russian President, visited Clinton and stayed at the Blar House, the White House guest residence, in 1995, the Secret Service found Yeltsin standing along on Pennsylvania Avenue, wearing only his underwear, trying to get a cab.

Yeltsin, slurring his words, told the Secret Service he wanted a pizza.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/21/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5327644.shtml?tag=pop

Remember, this is the president of Russia at the time, man at the head of a country with more nukes than the US (since 1980? US was way ahead from 1950-1980)

Hey that reminds me, we're cleaning house here, and SMMI is selling copies of plans for a Mertvaya Ruka device.

Till the end of the week, free pizza with each copy.
No export restrictions.

Muammar Al-Qadhafi speaks at the UN, while the FBI is running after 24 "disciples" of Najibullah Zazi.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/23/national/main5331531.shtml?tag=stack

I think Bruce is on solid ground.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

re: cattle mutilations

The FBI FOIA on their cattle mutilation investigations in the '70s is interesting to read. Lab test results and everything (along with some news articles)

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/ufoanim.htm

Thanks Snow, will take a look.
In the meanwhile, this doesn't really sound like an agency involved in cover-ups; if they were, surely they would indeed have "found" appropriate "individuals" to blame?!

Various theories concerning the origins of the mutilations were explored by the FBI, including satanic cults, UFOs, pranksters, and natural predators. The investigation failed to identify any individuals responsible for the mutilations.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

FOIA pages are amazing. I mean, they don't have to put it on the net right - they can wait for people to send them applications. So I think they are being more open certainly than the letter of the law allows them to be.

Arbitrary choosing "F" in the FOIA "reading room" - amazing also the number of entertainers etc had files - Ella Fitzgerald, William Faulkner. Douglas Fairbanks Jr, Errol Flynn just among the first few. I guess McCarthy had a lot to do with that. FBI history page there too which is quite fun :) ...as well as FBI undercover ops, their terrorist photo album from 73-89 ... just the list of Fs goes on forever.

edited to add: i guess Faulkner would have objected to being called an "entertainer". Ian Fleming was there too, he would probably have been happy with that description ;)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

Good point Orange about the FBI doing more than the law requires as far as posting FOIA stuff. When all is said and done the FBI isnt either as bad or as good as some people think. The FBI, like every governmental LE orgazization, has their ups and downs, sharp and dumb agents and both shameful and proud moments. They botched the NORJACK investigation, but they have done some brilliant sleuthing on other cases.

The FBI's "botching" of NORJACK was likely harmless error. I think Cooper threw law enforcement a real curve ball and that even the best investigation immediately after the crime might not have identified him. Theories about coverups and conspiracies are tempting, but they are the refuge of frustrated tired investigators. When all else fails, call it a conspiracy or coverup. Those explanations are almost always wrong.

Bruce is an interesting guy. He embraces what I call fringe and paranormal beliefs, stuff that I think has no scientific or even rational merit, but he, unlike his fellow new age travellers, keeps an open mind and a wonderful sense of humor.

If aliens were mutilating the Fazios cattle, and seeking DNA to help breed emotionality into their flat "Grey" lives, then it opens all sorts of possibilities. Pranks are an early manifestation of humor. Maybe as their directed evolution project progressed, they conceived a prank to put some Cooper loot at Tena Bar. It isnt very funny, but hey, maybe they bred in cow humor not knowing that cows and humans laugh at different things.

How did they get the loot? Show me the proof that Cooper was human. Or as Jo might phrase it, show me proof that Cooper was not an alien. Our enduring difficulty in identifying him might be explained easily by Bruce.

What do you say Bruce?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Quote

How many believe the following story:

When Boris Yeltsin, then Russian President, visited Clinton and stayed at the Blar House, the White House guest residence, in 1995, the Secret Service found Yeltsin standing along on Pennsylvania Avenue, wearing only his underwear, trying to get a cab.

Yeltsin, slurring his words, told the Secret Service he wanted a pizza.

Might be true Snow. My Dad had a friend who was a Secret Service Agent. He told my Dad that when Soviet Premier Nikita Krushchev visited San Francisco in 1959, he stayed up late drinking vodka, LOTS of vodka, and wanted to take a 4 AM walk outside the hotel.

A garbage truck was passing slowly and the scavenger workers recognized Krushchev. "Nikita, ride with us" one shouted. Before anyone could react Krushchev jumped onto the back of the truck with the guys who hailed him and the truck sped off. Krushchev hung on for a block before the various guards could catch up. He was laughing hilariously when he stepped down.

My Dad's friend did not personally witness the event but swore it happened. He mostly worked counterfeiting cases but had buddies in other areas who recounted the story to him.

I am sure one part is true, the vodka part.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

hmm. so we need info about Khrushchev visting San Francisco in 1959, and riding a garbage truck

I think it was not at 4 AM. I have evidence it was likely at 7:30 AM.

Here:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rIMKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZEsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6845,3006102&dq=nikita+garbage+truck+san+francisco


The Premier began today with a further show of independence from the planning and restrictions.

He bounced out of his hotel at 7:30 a.m. and took an unscheduled two-block walk, pausing for a little sidewalk superintending of operations of a garbage truck, and waving at girls riding cable cars.

Khrushchev was disappointed if head had hoped to find cheers and applause at the longshoreman's hall. THere wasn't anybody there except a gray-shirted union employee who told him, "We wish you peace".


Oh, FBI FOIA.
I can only hope, on my deathbed, that I discover a 10,000 page dossier on "snowmman" at the FBI. It's on my bucket list. I shall die of disappointment if my FOIA reveals nothing.

I thought the idea of a bucket list was silly, until I read one that said "Have a relationship with a woman from every continent"....
Hmm. I can see how it makes sense now. Planning involved.

[377 21]

Great find Snow. I wonder if he rode on the truck. Probably not. Could the alleged 4 AM incident have been a separate one from the 7:30 one? Oh well.

Quote

I thought the idea of a bucket list was silly, until I read one that said "Have a relationship with a woman from every continent"....
Hmm. I can see how it makes sense now. Planning involved.

Is Antarctica a continent? If so, what are your plans?
Do the Slovenians have an Ice Station Zebra down there? I think the Argentines have a few.

Ricky Nelson's "Travelling Man" comes to mind...

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Quote

Oh, FBI FOIA.
I can only hope, on my deathbed, that I discover a 10,000 page dossier on "snowmman" at the FBI. It's on my bucket list. I shall die of disappointment if my FOIA reveals nothing.

Bet you do have one. Maybe not 10,000 pages, but a few. Your inventive posts about how to take down airliners without bringing anything illegal aboard must be autologged somewhere.

Your planned multi continent bucket list quest will give you a few more pages as you begin execution.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Great find Snow. I wonder if he rode on the truck. Probably not. Could the alleged 4 AM incident have been a separate one from the 7:30 one? Oh well.

Quote

I thought the idea of a bucket list was silly, until I read one that said "Have a relationship with a woman from every continent"....
Hmm. I can see how it makes sense now. Planning involved.

Is Antarctica a continent? If so, what are your plans?
Do the Slovenians have an Ice Station Zebra down there? I think the Argentines have a few.

Ricky Nelson's "Travelling Man" comes to mind...

377

(sheeesh...americans )

Of course Antartica is a continent! It's a land mass, not ice like the Arctic. Interesting fact: did you know it is the driest continent in the world?

I don't think there are any permanent (human) residents but there are long-term stays. And once you're there for winter, you're there. A number of countries have bases there, including our very own SANAE. You can get cruises to Antarctica from SA.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

I recall some ill fated RW jump over that alleged continent. I think they lost altitude awareness and most of the formation went in.

Wasn't there also an Air New Zealand sightseing DC 10 flight down ther that also lost altitude awareness or position awareness or whatever and flew into the ice killing all aboard?

I'd rather visit more hospitable real continents: the kinds with sand beaches, forests, cities, DZs, you know...

Snow will have to post a full report on his Antarctic adventures... and remember Snow, a "mile high contact" doesnt count as a continent either in bucket lists or as a legit QSO for WAC.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377 said "Snow will have to post a full report on his Antarctic adventures"

See, this is one of those things, where the uninitiated would say "no way you could convince someone to ..."

The key is to create the situation where you can then deliver the perfect line: "We're both going to freeze to death unless we ...."

[377 21]

Quote

"We're both going to freeze to death unless we ...."

Snow has DEFINITELY done the bar scene in Adak.

Finally we learn how he got his name.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

The Jo bash moratorium has really improved things. I'll sign up for another term in advance.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

New guy on this forum .Please read all past post before you make judgement. Realize that there is a lot of bad feelings. with some on this site. When it come's to fact and not fiction . We all will give you the truth.- Jerry Thomas



WOW and for crying out loud. According to Jerry Thomas, I need to read over 13 thousand posts before making a comment about RADAR wave propagation and distance ambiguity. Guess I was too brusk and failed to illustrate how one could arrive at such a solution. I have no explanation for my troglodyte mannerisms and hope I didn't come across as a self important, self aggrandizing, semi literate with a displaced sense of ownership about the subject matter reflected in this thread. But I have obviously struck a sensitive chord somewhere in my preceding 7 posts and have absolutely no idea the cause.

Additionally, by reading these posts I will better understand how to calculate time distance equations and wind effects. Man, I really wasted thousands and thousands of hours doing it the old fashioned way. Why didn't I realize expertise in D B Cooper includes individual encyclopedic knowledge of aviation, skydiving, navigation, meteorology, hydrology, airline operations, statistics, geography, pneumatics, psychology, criminology, military history, electronics, avionics, RADAR, air communications, currency archeology as well as studies on the habits of rubber bands in the wild?

I simply thought I was adding a slightly different perspective rather than a 'smartest guy in the phone booth' dimension. Either way, I incorrectly viewed this data as dry and un-emotive simple physics which would be met with probative questions and intelligent validation. I had no intent of attacking the core and sole element of a persons self worth, I had NO idea a person would dedicate so much effort to such a trivial cause. Here again, I'm guilty of treating this as an intellectual lark rather than the deadly serious business it represents with a strong 'Lord of the Flies' overtone.

Once a subject has morphed to this level of hierarchy it becomes a lifestyle rather than a problem to solve or ponder. The last thing a person wants, with decades time and untold thousands of dollars invested in a mystery in which they have self anointed as the Alpha expert - is a solution. Except for one unlikely event, this person is the one to solve the mystery; then they can continue to 'dine out' on this enigma for as long as possible.

This data becomes MY theory, a person becomes THEIR suspect and other subtle forms of bias and ownership will enter the lexicon without correction or notice. Information will be offered without source or under the pretense of 'inside information'; adding how they are already endangering themselves with what they have disclosed! Of course such diction would be thrown out of any research paper submitted to the least prestigious of community colleges or script submitted to the most desperate of Hollywood studios. Usually a sense of dignity or shame keep others from engaging in like behavior.

I would like to apologize for my petulant rants, lack of good graces, technical ineptness and obtuse party crashing. I would rather avoid the cyber scent-marking, self proclaimed 'legend' status and electronic man-tool length comparison contests so expertly displayed. In this case discretion is the better part of valor.

By my calculations, reading forty posts a day, every day will take me 325 days plus the time to finish reading the 'delta' of posts produced during that time frame. But who am I to offer such complex maths without first reading "all past post"? I would realize there is hard feelings about reading 40 posts a day and never offer such data or modify my response to please the 'Alpha Cooperite.' My energies may be better invested in charm school or in the acquisition of some class. Learning about operating principles and how to better communicate without being abrasive, self important or demeaning to others would obviously be to my personal benefit. On top of that, the cryptic, double secret, double naught spy stuff is equal parts juvenile, creepy and all around disturbing.

So I'm either going to follow that sage, kind and humorous advice so freely offered by Jerry Thomas or accept my technical, social and intellectual short comings and remove myself knowing I couldn't even achieve the vaunted rank of D B Cooper NOOB.

[377 21]

Keep posting Farflung.

The prior posts are a swamp. You are on dry land. You came over the bridge. It's unreasonable to ask you to go back and slog through that mess as a condition precedent to playing here.

I do wish Jerry would just take a map, draw his flightline on it and post it. If he doesn't have a scanner he can mail it to me and I will do it. It seems like a reasonable request.

Where is Sluggo? Safe? Guru? Nitro? Come on guys, we have cleaned up the neighborhood. Stop by and say hello.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[1969912 0]

Quote

...hope I didn't come across as a self important, self aggrandizing, semi literate with a displaced sense of ownership about the subject matter reflected in this thread....

Almost lost a mouthful of Deschutes IPA reading that!

Please post whatever you and whenever you want. If it has been addressed before, there are plenty of reasonable people who will refer you to the pertinent posts. Reading the entire thread might scare you away, and I, for one, don't want that to happen.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[snowmman 3]

Farf said "I have no explanation for my troglodyte mannerisms and hope I didn't come across as a self important, self aggrandizing, semi literate with a displaced sense of ownership about the subject matter reflected in this thread."

Heh-heh!

That's about the best summary of the thread so far..better than 377's a while back. There's nothing in the prior posts. Don't worry about it.

Hey! Farf has a brain. How did he land here. He must have killed someone, somewhere. Or just got dumped. Or ?

Sluggo always waxed philosophic about why people on Internet forums acted differently.

My position is that on an internet forum, it's closer to what people really are...and the real problem is that we just don't like each other...i.e. real life is the fake thing!

Farf! You're exactly right in your perception. But what you'll find, is that everyone is immune to all normal entreaties.

The thread goes on forever. Rationality is not a prerequisite. And the FBI was here and didn't display any traits that would lead us to a higher plane of existence.

Basically we are disciples, in search of a guru.

In other news, 3000 disciples of Zazi are being investigated, including 12 that have infilitrated the Dept. of Homeland Security and the Senate.

Even though a doomsday device has been planted somewhere between Colorado and New York, with a password known only to Snowmman, the DHS threat level has not been raised to Red.

Police depts have been notified and are clearing their families out, but normal citizens are being left behind as fodder.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0924/p02s09-usgn.html

Citizens realizing that this is the big one, varsity level, have taken matters into their own hands.

In August, the number of background checks performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Instant Criminal Background Check System was up 12.3% from the same month in 2008 to about 1.1 million.

(This is single month...1 million. I saw another thing that cited similar increases for 6 months straight?)

Americans usually buy about 7 billion rounds of ammunition a year, according to the National Rifle Association. In the past year, that figure has jumped to about 9 billion rounds, said NRA spokeswoman Vickie Cieplak.

Here's the real problem: Jason Gregory, who manages Gretna Gun Works just outside of New Orleans, has been building his personal supply of ammunition for months. His goal is to have at least 1,000 rounds for each of his 25 weapons.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jpdcxje-YAFDJZhFz32imz1h0pxwD9AT6S4G1


I'm still scratching my head over Zazi.
They say he was working on a doomsday device, somewhere between Colorado and NY, and they've sent out all this breathless information. Like he had a single jpeg of nine pages of handwritten notes on peroxide stuff. (how does all my youtube video compare..Would they report 12,895 frames of flash video?)

But there's no increase in the "threat level" from yellow to red, and there's no explosives or materials. Yet there are allegations of massive Uhaul trucks trying to be rented by the 3 stooges, and a dozen backpacks and disciples in the double digits.

It'll be interesting if there really is anything. Right now, it looks like a lot of baloney.

I mean, they've not interviewed the 4 hiding in my basement yet (disciples always travel in fours)

I'll eat my words if I'm wrong. But this smells, to me.

[snowmman 3]

Farf worried "But I have obviously struck a sensitive chord somewhere in my preceding 7 posts and have absolutely no idea the cause."

Well you know the answer already. You can punctuate, spell, and state a thesis, and chain it back to physical evidence.

The nail that sticks out must be hammered down!

You know what's really scary. Farf: EVERYONE involved in the Cooper thing is exactly like Jerry. Himmelsbach. Even Ckret, for all the defenders here of Ckret. Even the Scientist. Even Nat Geo. Everyone. There is no safe harbor.

That's why, here on Gilligan's Island, the only sensible question is
"Mary Ann or Ginger?"

(edit) Farflung. Something for you to ponder. You're laying it on thick with an implication that somehow brains can achieve something here. Bring it on. What you got? Better than you have tried and failed.

That's the real problem here. Rationality can't add value. Try. You'll see. You can take the ball and go home. But all that means is you took the ball and went home.

[JerryThomas 0]

Bruce. Richard has had a stroke in the past he is not 100,percent at this time. He is expected to regain most of his facultie's in time. If you talk to the other brother you will find there is a conflict in all there stories . Although the storie's are somewhat similliar in context. However memories Are not the same. Trust me. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1 fantastic . Comment . Still a open mind we all must keep. I have a problem keeping a open mind on a few subject's. I'm still learning. Believe it or not I have learned a lot from you .Snowmman .Georger .377 Quade and other's. (I'm still trying to make sense out of one true fact. And the fact is why there is Ice worms in glacier's.Somthing's can not be explained. Our only choice is to find or resolve the situation ). The comment about Ice worm's is meant to be funny . In reality they do exist. dry hummor Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Zazi . You kind of took my post wrong. I have posted in the past that the flight plan that was published was wrong. I also posted that the published flight plan is a mystery. to most (as to where it came from) The fact is that the flight path was over Troutdale and not over portland. The reason for this was, It was the less populated area. The pilot's were given a choice . They could either go East.From the flight patern (23V)or west toward's the ocean . They chose east.The weather was ,to say the least bad. The wind's were rough . The altitude of the aircraft was above certain turbulance's. When you get close to the columbia River Gorge the air current's change rapidly .Every one alway's thought that the flight path was over portland then followed I,5 not true. The original calculation's were wrong . The pilot's flew to the east to avoid all populated area's. Back in the early 70's Troutdale and gresham had little population. Hope this bring's you up to date. Ps. There is alot of Info that has not been made public. There is however Info that has been given that is correct. For instance most people think that the money found is with the FBI And brian Ingram. Not true. The majority of the money is in the hand's of the Insurance company .This is where it get's tricky. The original insurance Co. or should I say the name of that company has changed. The money can still be traced. I know I just did this. It is avaliable for inquiry. at the archive's of the new company. The money is locked up in a vault at the archive's of the new company. Jerry

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Bruce is an interesting guy. He embraces what I call fringe and paranormal beliefs, stuff that I think has no scientific or even rational merit, but he, unlike his fellow new age travellers, keeps an open mind and a wonderful sense of humor.

If aliens were mutilating the Fazios cattle, and seeking DNA to help breed emotionality into their flat "Grey" lives, then it opens all sorts of possibilities. Pranks are an early manifestation of humor. Maybe as their directed evolution project progressed, they conceived a prank to put some Cooper loot at Tena Bar. It isnt very funny, but hey, maybe they bred in cow humor not knowing that cows and humans laugh at different things.

How did they get the loot? Show me the proof that Cooper was human. Or as Jo might phrase it, show me proof that Cooper was not an alien. Our enduring difficulty in identifying him might be explained easily by Bruce.

What do you say Bruce?

377

***

Thanks for the kind words about my character and sense of humor, 377.

Your question about Danny's identity is very timely, as I have been feeling increasingly stymied and seeking bolder approaches to solving the mystery.

Here's my current thinking:

Since Flo and Tina don’t want to talk, I figured I’d better get on board Flight 305 and see for myself what is (was) going on.

So, I’ve been trying to do a little teleporting through time and space and see if Danny Boy will let me light a few of his cigarettes. Haven’t made it yet, but I’m as excited as all heck trying.

I’ve also had a great time rehearsing my introductory lines…”Excuse me, Mr. Cooper, but I’m a newspaper reporter from 2009 and I was wondering if I could ask you a few questions?” Or, “Dan, mind if I jump with you so I can see if you made it? We’re not sure in 2009.”

I’m also having a very interesting ethical debate with myself over whether it is permissible to snatch a couple twenties so I can prove to you guys that I actually made it when I do.

Along those lines, I’m also doing a bit of remote viewing to get my own take on who Danny is and was. Again, not much in terms of concrete information, but I’m feeling the vibes of the 1970s and that’s a very weird feeling, and surprisingly uncomfortable. All these sideburns and bell-bottoms – Whew!!!

Home base for the Army’s remote viewers was (is) Fort Detrick, I believe, the same place where MKULTRA was (is) stationed. Lots has been written about the military’s remote viewing, and one of their RV’ers, David Morehouse, is now freelancing commercially. Maybe I should give him a call and get this angle rolling.

Dr. Hal Puthoff was the initiator of the Army’s RV unit, as I understand it, and Puthoff is currently head of a private research lab named Institute of Advanced Studies in Austin, Texas. One of his deputies, Dr. Eric Davis, wrote a paper on the current state of teleportation for the US Air Force.

A few years ago, I wrote a couple magazine articles on the related subjects of the physics of antigravity, kind of picking up where Nick Cook left off in his “The Hunt for Zero Point – Inside the Classified World of Antigravity,” and one on the Bio-Physics of Human Levitation. Puthoff and his crew were part of those writings.


As for the cows, aliens and the loot, all I can say at the moment is, "What a hoot."

It reminds me of a phrase that Galen, Al, Richard and myself have uttered numerous times over the past few weeks: "Just when you thought the DB Cooper case couldn't get any crazier, it does."

• Quote

[georger 199]

The FBI's "botching" of NORJACK was likely harmless error. I think Cooper threw law enforcement a real curve ball and that even the best investigation immediately after the crime might not have identified him. Theories about coverups and conspiracies are tempting,