The truth of the Paracommander

[drenaline 0]

Here is an email I recieved from a friend explaining how was the ParaCommander days.

Quote

>>I heard some stories about the para commander and they are all scary, having to PLF every landing>>

Lots of legends embellished numerous times around the campfire. Maybe some Macho guy's wanting to talk about how tough they were. My experience if you choose to believe what you read in cyber space is based on 500 jumps on rounds and lots of time spent on the DZ.

Sorry not true the big guy's had to do a plf or else, they could hurt themselves on landing, nothing critical if they were unlucky maybe one or two broken legs or ankle's at the same time. Very hardcore guys but very tame compared injuries that some people get from the High performance landings of today.
Us little people were able to stand up the PC 's 99% of the time, The other 1% we were going backwards to fast for a standup, tried anyway but had to cutaway after landing to prevent a cross country trip on the ground.

>> having some hard individual releases in the riser for emergency cutaway,>>
not true pop the cover (no tension or squeezing) this exposed a metal cable, thumb in cable and pull both at the same time and you be gone. These riser releases were called shot & a half's. the older models were called two shots and cutting away in the air was not an option but was only used by students and eventually they disappeared.

We would practice this emergency procedure in a hanging harness suspended 5' abouve a mattress under various conditions spinning, not spinning. The goal was to cutaway while bending at the waist ( reserve was on your belly so you wanted to open back to earth) and get the reserve handle out before we hit the mattress. Not very hard to do with a little practice.Remember our minimum opening altitude was still 2 grand.

>> then opening the bag in front of you and start to manually take out the reserve>>

Only half true the students were trained not to cut away they did not have a pilot chute in their reserve. A total mal: bend at waist pull the reserve handle, hit the side of the container, bungees were already opening the flaps as soon as a piece of the reserve hit the wind stream instant opening (Try driving down the road and exposing a piece of fabric out the window then do it at 120MPH.

A spinning malfunction was a little worse but the student still had a canopy above them and usually had a line over and were in a slow spin: Open reserve container throw reserve opposite the direction of the spin so the reserve doesn't wrap around you) hold onto the skirt of the canopy and shake. Throw the reserve in the wrong direction oops pull it back in and try it again.
Students lands under two canopies. Student's who landed on a spinning main could die based on speed of the of the spin and body weight. Experienced jumpers who didn't want to cutaway and dumped their reserve into a malfuncting main ended up with a double mess and usually died. I believe the minimum cutaway altitude was a grand but I could be wrong

>>and only going were the wind wanted you to go, now thats scary, might be fun but scary.>> Again only half true the PC had an estimated forward speed of 15 mph depending on body weight. If the winds were less than 15mph we were not backing up. The reserve might have a forward speed of Zero to maybe 3 MPH depending if it was steerable. Spotting was an art and if the winds exceeded the speed of our canopy (for some reason we always seemed to exit to short), We would get blown backwards. Remember the speed of our reserve's was the limiting factor and once we landed they couldn't be cut away. So 15 mph winds going backwards: feet, head, and cross country on the ground until the canopy ran into something. We were also jumping in agriculteral area's like texas, kansas and missouri so there wasn't much shit to run into.

Walking back to the DZ on a hot day is not fun. Simple trick land as close as possible to a road (not the DZ) and hitch a ride. One of my worst experiences was when I was being blown backwards (hey it was windy and we wanted to jump) almost past the DZ I hear a roaring sound and look over my shoulder and there is a very long freight train behind me, Decision time do I continue to face into the wind and land hope I land before I get to the train or do I turn around run downwind and try and land on the other side of the train.

R.I.P.

R.I.P. are his initials.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[markbaur 0]

Quote

throw reserve opposite the direction of the spin so the reserve doesn't wrap around you)

Preferable to throw down and in the same direction as the spin.

Quote

...individual releases... in the riser for emergency cutaway... [P]op the cover (no tension or squeezing) this exposed a metal cable, thumb in cable and pull both at the same time and you be gone. These riser releases were called shot & a half's.

An R-3 uses the load-bearing part of the canopy release, but replaces the metal cover and thumb loop with a piece of light webbing held in place by velcro. There are still a few of these in use. They require very little maintenance compared to 3-ring, and if you have to cut away, you don't have to go looking for a cut-away handle.

Mark

[wmw999 2,121]

Quote

An R-3 uses the load-bearing part of the canopy release, but replaces the metal cover and thumb loop with a piece of light webbing held in place by velcro.

Actually, the R3 also had some hard plastic tubing included -- the R2 was just webbing with velcro
I actually liked the R2 better than the R3; it seemed that it was a little more idiot-proof in grabbing, and idiot-proof is exactly what you want in a cutaway system. The best thing that 3-rings did over R2 and R3 was to make it a one-motion thing. With the others, there was always the potential of cutting away one side and not the other for some reason. Also, pulling the reserve was ALWAYS a separate motion (no one hand on the cutaway, one on the reserve handle).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[steve1 5]

I knew a few guys, in the old days, who had one shot cape-wells. You pulled the covers down and in one motion they would release. I imagine they got rid of these because of the danger factor. I remember one hard opening where my arm somehow snagged my shot and a half capewell cover, pulling it open. I was glad I didn't have one shots because it probably would have cut away that side. Isn't this new gear wonderful! Steve1

[billbooth 10]

Just to show you how much jumping has grown... For well over 10 years, from the early 60's till ram airs took over, everyone, and I mean everyone, jumped only one canopy... the Paracommander. I once asked Jacques Istel, who sold them all, exactly how many PC's were ever made, and he told me just over 10,000...that's it (and I owned 3 of them myself). Compare that to the nearly 100,000 ram airs PD alone has made, and you can see how many more of us there are nowadays.

[drenaline 0]

Quote

Just to show you how much jumping has grown...

I sure do thank you for all your work and research on skydiving! If I ever get the chance to meet you, I'll pay for the beers! Cheers!

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[cloud9 0]

My first jumps were on a 28' round with either a double L mod or a 7 tu. I don't remember standing any of them up. On about jump 20 I started jumping a PC I weighed about 155 lbs and I stood up most of my landings. My JM was about 200 lbs and he stood up most of his landings too, of course he had a little over 500 jumps which was a bunch back then. I had a friend that had a competition PC he seemed to land harder and it definetly opened way harder. I'm not sure why perhaps Bill could tell us what the difference was. (hint). Anyway I guess there were at least two types of PC's and mybe more .
It was a different game but it was still a hell of a lot of fun!

[AggieDave 6]

I think there was a short line "RW" version of the PC, atleast that what an old time jumper calls his PC at a DZ I jump at. He also calls it a Piglet, but I'm not sure if that's the PC or the container that he's refering to.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wmw999 2,121]

The PC, or Paracommander, was a canopy; it came in jumbo (bigger), RW (lighter fabric), Competition (short-lined, bigger steering slots, heavier crown lines) and "regular," of which there were a couple of models (Mark 1 & Mark 2). They were made beginning in the 1960's.

A Piglet was a different, later higher-performance round canopy. It didn't have a pulled-down apex; its main purpose in life was to pack small. Piglet also made a piggy-back container, and a reserve.

There was a Russian PC; also a Papillon, known as a French PC to some. The Starlite (which was also a container) was yet another pulled-down apex high performance round, as were the Crossbow (early) and the Sierra.

Calling all high-performance rounds "PC's" is about like calling all ellipticals "stilettos." Well, maybe it just shows you're a lot younger than I am .

And even cheapos could be stood up, and accuracy requirements for licenses definitely existed in the days when rounds were common.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jimmytavino 16]

I had an instructor who was from Europe , when I began jumping..who highly endorsed the French Papillon,,, I was jumping one by my 25th jump and owned 2 of them... They had a HIGH porosity apex, and so,,, were very stable in deep brakes, (since air was "venting through the apex", rather than "spilling under the canopy skirt.)...unlike some PC's especially the longer lined PC's...
I made over 900 jumps on my Papillons and could shoot pretty good accuracy with them.Jumped one at the National Collegiate Parachuting Championships in '74 at DeLand Fla. (still have the tee shirt )
A jumper needed to be very diligent,, from the time of opening,,, in order to land at the target,,,cause they only flew maybe 15 mph,and sure often we would be backing up...... I used R 3 releases.. for a few years
and they were velcro and elastic closed.....I once had an
R3 release!!! on me.... upon landing....
Since we did not Flare.... at landing,, often we would grab the risers in each hand and do a "chin up " of sorts,,,, just at touch down... if timed properly,,, it helps the landing alot.....anyway,, I do this move,,,,, and ... chink!!!! off in my hand comes my RIGHT RISER!!!...hahaha... I was right in front of the hangar and my buddy is leanin' against the building and I show him the riser and I say,,,"Do you see THIS?????" hahaha I had exited at 3,500 and did a backloop off the step and opened...I never remember LOOKING at the releases during my descent,(Now I always look at both of my 3 ring cable/loop setups,,, as part of my post deployment check list...) but one of them must have peeled open.. The tension on the riser must have kept the locking tab from moving,,, but when I landed and put slack into it,, it released....
I also used another landing technique that was based on the "chin up off the risers" move....... After seeing plenty of people land backing up and smacking their butts or their heads,,, and not wishing that fate foranyone, including meloved it

[darkwing 4]

When I started my DZ required 30 jumps on a military surplus round before they would let you jump a PC. I put a few hundred jumps on a PC, then moved on to a gutted rag (28 foot round with the suspension lines removed from the channels through the canpoy). I jumped a Starlite (Strong enterprises) which is very PC -like in design, except with lighter fabric, and it opened HARD. Put me in the hospital. They ended up putting a slider on them to slow them down. After recovery I only jumped squares, as that is when the Strato-Star came out, with very soft openings.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[sharpfive 0]

My first cutaway was from a streamered PC. The Harness shifted and I had to grope for the R-3's. Luckily, I found them, chopped, then had to deal with a floating ripcord. What a day. Here's a pic of my (usually) trusty competition PC.

[wmw999 2,121]

Man -- I loved my Starlite. I must have gotten a really good one. I took the slider off, and I put several hundred jumps on it. When I finally bought a new container (Wonderhog II), I even bought it to fit the Starlite, and put another 100 or so jumps on it before I finally got a square. I just didn't see the advantage of a square for me...
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[steve1 5]

After seeing plenty of people land backing up and smacking their butts or their heads,,, and not wishing that fate foranyone, including me............................................................
This sounds like a good idea. I used to hate rear PLF's. Sometimes you hit so hard it was nearly impossible to twist to your side. Sometimes I used to hook my PC into the wind. If you timed it right you could get a good landing without backing up on a windy day. I thought I invented this, but have heard of others doing the same thing. I always liked the looks of papillions, but most of my jumps were on a Mark 1. Steve1

[pack40 0]

I read an article in a Hungarian magazine for skydiving instructors (1983/3 Issue).
It had an article called "~Spin with a Paracommander" it was printed in Skydiver in 1965 if somebody has it should post it is very funny it demonstrates the Paracommander's capabilities in a humorous way. The writer pseudonim is L.D. Vinci.


Oh in my club we have a UT-15 canopy I think that is the Soviet copy of the Paracommander. I think it has certificate another year of operation, although nobody uses it.
But, now somebody wanted to install a 3 ring system on it and put it in a modern container (now it comes with chest mounted-reserve). I have a clubmate with ~25 jump and he is desperate to jump with the UT-15! Everybody tells him that it will be a painfull experience, but if this is what he wants!

OVER

[steve1 5]

Pack40,
They used to make a Russian Para-commander that many people jumped back in the old days. I think it was very similar to the Mark 1 para-commander. To tell you the truth, I'd love to jump one again. A friend has one, still in the old B-12 container that he'll sell me for a $100. The next step would be rigging up a good reserve. My last malfunction was on a 24ft. round that was barely modified and oscillated like crazy. In fact I sprained both ankles in a rock pile. I was thinking of picking up a 26 ft. conical. I'd like to put this in an old chest mount military container, if it will fit. Your friends jump shouldn't be too painful. You can usually stand one up if you do things right. I used to flair mine by doing a chin-up on the back risers, just before landing. Steve1

[wmw999 2,121]

According to the Classic website (it's an accuracy canopy), the UT-15 was not just a copy of the PC, but an improvement. They said it was probably the best accuracy round, because of some subtle differences in the slits and holes.

Either way, jump it, have a great time. I think every DZ should have some conventional/round gear around for grins and giggles.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Yeah, there are still plenty of people around Raeford with vintage gear. Back to the ParaCommander thing though: I never failed to stand up a PC, nor did I ever fall down jumping my R/W/B Papillon (which my dad still has in his loft). I DID, on the other hand, land both the Pap and a 28 foot 7-TU in a swamp; the Pap while jumping in Lagrange, GA out of the old Sugar Alpha DC-3, and the 7-TU at Elmore field in Wetumpka, AL out of a C-182 on my first freefall in February 1981.

Chuck

[darkwing 4]

We have an old Guardian piggyback rig with a PC main and a 26 lopo reserve. It has been jumped several times lately, including successful CRW. A three stack with two squares....

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[quatorze 1]

Oh boy I was there for the three stack, something I had not expected to see, and just imagine the brakes that the 2 squares had to fly in to pin the 3-stack

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Actually, there used to be all kinds of round/square CRW photos in Parachutist back in the day.

Chuck

[darkwing 4]

yeah, my teammates used to do crew with a paradactyl and a square. I'm virtually certain they also did crew with a 'dactyl and a piglet.... Even sane crew scares me. That really scared me.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[wmw999 2,121]

I've done a number of starlite-starlite hookups. Takes careful matching of the pilots. I tried with my starlite and a Cloud, but we couldn't get them flying close enough to the same. This was pretty early though.
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Thom 0]

There were several versions.
Pre-Mk1: Sold only in red/white and blue and noted for its 1.1 HiPo ripstop crown while the rest was taffita
Mk-1: Probably the most common and was taffita thru out. Paragear or Midwest Parachute company were the first to talk Pioneer into custom colors.
Mk-2: had a closed rear section
Mk-3: commonly called the DROP-COMP because unlike the others it had a nasty stall and was designed for accuracy jumpers who wanted to just tall onto the disk.
JUMBO-PC: was simply a scaled up version for heavier jumpers or mountain jumpers
RW-PC: The worst and biggest failure. The first PC came out to counter Security's Cross-Bow (a bigger canopy, 28 vs 24 foot and more accurate plus it had reverse flight) and the RW-PC was sold to counter the zero porosity Security SIERRA (and pig system) which wasd seriously eating into PC sales.

Before the Sierra the main competition was the Sneider made French PAPPILLION or PAP which was the most accurate of the lot. There was also the Pigglettes and Ted Strong's Starlite. In 71 Security introduced the superior ThunderBow but rather than moving up to it many started the gradual change to the Strat-Star and Parafoils.

THOM

[quatorze 1]

heres some pics

setting up, look at those holes


wow

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle