"Never Let Your Guard Down"

[rgoper 0]

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Be careful shipping that bottle to Colorado. You want it to get there in one piece.

Paula:

you got my house bugged or something? how'd you know where my equipment was going? you know the old saying: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" plus, when, and if you have to pull silver, ya gotta have that warm fuzzy feeling, and with the man in colorado, i have just that feeling! take care paula, thanks for your posts.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[clrarch 0]

Warning---Newbie with questions! I've been lurking and reading posts, trying to wrap my brain around the sequencing of the cutaway, the use of an RSL, and deployment of the reserve. I'm very close to finishing up my AFF program, and for the time being am still using an SOS system with an RSL that activates the reserve. I expect to transition to the two action system when I'm off of AFF (I know I'll be trained when I transition, but I'm trying to learn everything I can about gear/emergency procedures). It sounds like utilizing an RSL with a two action sysem acts similar to an SOS--the action of cutting away triggers the RSL and thus activates the reserve. This may seem like a dumb question, but do you need to pull the reserve ripcord if you use an RSL on a two action system? If I'm figuring this out correctly, is that considered an advantage or a disadvantage when you need to perform a cutaway? I'm also curious about flexing the 3-ring release....Is that the process of flexing the white locking loop that holds the small top ring to make sure it is soft? Thanks for the post----it's VERY helpful to read about these experiences to help bump up the learning curve!

[Hooknswoop 19]

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It sounds like utilizing an RSL with a two action sysem acts similar to an SOS--the action of cutting away triggers the RSL and thus activates the reserve.

With a Single Operating System, the one handle is connected to the yellow cutaway cables (2) and the reserve ripcord. It is set up so that the excess cutaway cables in the channels on the rear rises are shorter thatn the slack in the reserve ripcord at the handle. This ensures that the main is released before the reserve pin is pulled, activating the reserve. The RSL is STRICTLY a back up device, as is an AAD.

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This may seem like a dumb question, but do you need to pull the reserve ripcord if you use an RSL on a two action system?

In short, yes you need to still pull the reserve ripcord on a two-handle system w/ an RSL. I have seen 3 RSL become disconnected in free-fall w/o the jumper being aware of it (one studnet, one experienced jumper, and one tandem)

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I'm also curious about flexing the 3-ring release

The designer of the 3-ring system recommends a 30-day maintenance. Disconnect the risers from the harness, clean the yellow cutaway cables w/ Ace Pure Silicone Lubricant (great stuff), and “massage” the 3-rings to prevent them from taking on a “set”. This will make them release faster in a normal cutaway situation, ensure the lightest pull force of the cutaway pillow and help the 3-rings release in a horse-shoe/can’t find/pull the PC situation. Make sure your 3-rings are re-assembled correctly and the risers didn't get twisted during this process. The easiest way I’ve found t performing the maintenance is while the main is packed and using the riser covers to keep the risers from twisting.

Hook


Hook

[billvon 2,409]

>This may seem like a dumb question, but do you need to pull the
>reserve ripcord if you use an RSL on a two action system?

Depends. If you have a total, pulling the cutaway handle will do nothing even if you have an RSL. If you have a low speed mal (like a lineover) then the RSL will indeed open your reserve after you pull the cutaway handle. However, it is generally accepted that you should _always_ pull the reserve handle even if you have a lineover and an RSL; RSL's can (and have) become disconnected.

>If I'm figuring this out correctly, is that considered an advantage or a
> disadvantage when you need to perform a cutaway?

Getting the reserve out quickly after a cutaway is considered an advantage; RSLs help do that.

>I'm also curious about flexing the 3-ring release....

The best guide is your rig's manual, but in general you remove the riser from the harness ring and flex the entire riser assembly. The middle ring tends to "set" in one position on the riser, and flexing the 3-rings helps remove that set. A 'set' riser could cause a slow cutaway or even a cutaway failure under some conditions.

[rgoper 0]

the first gentleman that responded to your posts has played a large part in my sky diving, i learned to utilize this procedure (flexing the 3 ring system, and had just done it the day before) from him, in any event, all i have to add to what either of these two very learned sky divers have already said, if your flying with an RSL, "act like it's not even there" same thing as an AAD. when i had my cut-away, the thought of the RSL being there never occured to me, i didn't have time to even think about it, i just initiated my emergency procedures as i was instructed some time ago. hope this info helps. bottom line, do not depend on auxillary devices to activate any of your "Plan B" equipment. take care, stay safe, and ask all the questions you want.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[clrarch 0]

Thanks for the replies to my post---I appreciate all of you taking the time to answer my questions. I'm sure I'll have many more as time goes on! Glad to hear all of your emergency training resulted in you being here to start the thread

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[PhreeZone 15]

My thoughts? I could'nt tell you the jump where my PC started acting differently, but it does act different now then when it was new, and even different then 50 jumps ago. The tighter I shove the canopy into the container the weirder the openings get. IMHO there is a reason that getting a 24 ZP PC requires a custom one. Bill Booth explained the velocity an ideal launch is at for a PC on here this spring. The 26 inch ZP seems to launch it at about that same speed for most normal sized canopies. A small PC on a small, light weight canopy is fine, but using a small PC to deploy a large, heavy canopy could work fine 99 out of 100 times, but that 1 time it could easly cause a weak launch and result in a mal. I also seem to remember the company that you spoke to refering to that loading your at as an entry intermediate loading. Most other canopy makers call that loading as advanced/expert. Just keeping things in perspective...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rgoper 0]

Phree:

just for conversations sake, what other function is the PC supposed to perform, besides pulling the bridle out of the container, pulling the closing pin, and exposing the d-bag into the airstream? i can't see how wingloading, etc would have an effect in this particular situation, but if you know something i don't i'm all ears. i've seen line twists a dozen times, and this isn't the first, or the last instance where they have been this severe, i've got an mpeg of linetwists just such as mine on my cpu here at my home office, wonder if he rushed out and changed out his pc? i just can't see where that had any effect in this incident. i had a long disscussion with Dan Preston, and Jim Cazar, and neither of them mentioned that this would/could be a problem, i even had a close friend tell me to leave the original 33" pc on the rig, but i didn't simply because it was fraying from too many jumps, and needed to be changed out anyway.

What's the recommended pilot chute size?

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Recommended pilot for cobalt 150-170 is a 24" zero-p kill line collapsible. Recommended pilot for Cobalts 65-135 is a 22"-24" zero-p kill line collapsible. NOTE: many containers come standard with a 28-32" pilot. This is more than double the recommended surface area required. A 28” pilot will cause brisk openings especially at higher speeds.

and this:

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What's the recommended wing loading on a Cobalt?

The Cobalt canopy is an extremely efficient wing. It has the highest measured glide ratio of any skydiving canopy. The extra lift makes for a canopy that flies 'bigger'. To get equal forward speed when comparing to many other canopies you need to load the Cobalt heavier, i.e. 1#/’ on a Sabre should be compared to 1.2#/’ on a cobalt.

1.2-1.4 beginners
1.4-1.6 intermediate this is my level
1.6-1.8 high
1.8-2.2 pro
2.2-2.8 extreme
max tested landed wingload 3.6#

NOTE: due to the efficiency of the Cobalt wing, most experienced jumpers will jump a Cobalt 1-2 sizes smaller than competing canopies.

straight off of the Atair site

i've done my research, even prior to my purchases. as should everyone.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[HeatherB 0]

Feel free to ask your canopy manufacturer what they recommend for PC sizes but do talk to your container manufacturer as well. After all, new PC's almost always come with your new container, not with your new canopy. There's logic to this all, really!

Be careful.

blue skies,
Heather
Sunrise Rigging

[PhreeZone 15]

Depending on the velocity that the bag leaves the container, which is determined by canopy weight, PC size and material, bridle length, etc will determine if the PC leads to brisk openings, lazy openings, bag locks, spinning PC's and spinning bags, thngs like that. The PC controls how the bag leaves the back, the bag controls the line twists, the canopy gets the main line twists before it ever is out of the bag. Its all a complex relationship that Bill explained in his earlier posts. Talk to the container makers too on why they sell that larger PC's and not 22 inch on some containers.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,409]

>just for conversations sake, what other function is the PC supposed
>to perform, besides pulling the bridle out of the container, pulling
>the closing pin, and exposing the d-bag into the airstream?

Well, and to do that at the appropriate speed. A 36" PC (yes, I have one) might cause line dump on a small (light) canopy; a 22" PC on a heavy canopy might cause a very slow opening and give the D-bag time to line twist.

> i can't see how wingloading, etc would have an effect in this
> particular situation . . .

Wingloading doesn't, but a heavier main might require more drag for a good deployment, and heavier mains are usually associated with lighter loadings.

[skybytch 259]

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Any "1,000"-jump-wonders with no cutaways care to comment?

Almost a "1,000" jump wonder... 900 jumps, zero cutaways (knocking on wood desktop while looking furtively around the room to be sure no one saw it).

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"OMG I have never cutaway... what do I do again for a lineover?!?!?" He could be right, too.

Nor for me. Came close to chopping back in May with two broken lines; chose to land it instead. Not because I was afraid to cutaway, more because I knew I could land it. I have no doubt I'll pull the handles when I need to - ie when it's not there, not square and/or not flying right.

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even remember how to flare an F-111

I've flared F111 more times than I have zp. How many people here have NEVER jumped an F111 canopy, reserve or main? I was more scared of chopping back when I was carrying a round reserve than I am carrying a square... I'd never jumped a round, I jumped a 7 cell F111 on every skydive.

[Ducky 0]

i had line twists from the slider at the top of the canopy to my risers, my toggles and all were twisted up, it had my ring finger lodged in between them (glad i was wearing gloves)

This just made me think of something. Do most people remove rings from their fingers when jumping? I don't where any so the thought had never occured to me. Having been in and around Industrila/construction sites for awhile I knowthe importance of naked fingers.

Rings can and do very easily snag many times resulting in severed digitsOUCH!

I know of at least 2 men who have no ring finger left from the knuckle up. Damn what a price to pay for being married!!


kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[skycat 0]

Hey I read in here somewhere you have a cazer pilot chute. You may want to get it checked by a rigger. I have/had a 24 inch ZP cazer and was having massive hesitations, I could have sworn the hesitations felt like they were getting longer. The other thing I noticed was that the kill line had shrank quite a bit and was basically out of calibration after less than 50 jumps. Well after Derek looked it over turns out the bridal streched and the white tapes on the inside were about 3 inches to long. After he put it in accordance to Bill Booths recommendations (built a new bridal and shortened the tapes) I haven't had a single hesitation since.

Fly it like you stole it!

[rgoper 0]

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Well after Derek looked it over

that's exactly where all of my equipment will be today, 24" P.C. and all!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Chief 0]

Glad you are okay. All the mental prep pays off. Knowledge is not only power, it can save your life.

[AndyMan 7]

Here's some pics of the line twists I had on my Stiletto (loaded at 1.6) today.

1) You can see clearly see the twists long before the canopy finishes inflating.

2) As the canopy opens, it starts to wind up.

3) Horizontal, on my back.

4) First view of connector links, both even. Canopy is straight and level.

5) Almost untwisted...

After a big-way RW jump, I'd set my ditter to 2500, then had to track a bit farther to get clearence. I probably started deployment at about 2300.

Elapsed time between frame 1 and 5, seven seconds.

Pro-track shows a deployment altitude of 1500 feet, the same as my flat-line. I did not hear the flat-line.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[rgoper 0]

AM:

that's probably what mine looked like, though i'll never be able to photo-document it like you did yours. the only difference is mine had my risers spun up, toggles and all all the way to the back of my kneck. glad you got it worked out!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"