quatorze 1 #1 November 16, 2002 I have had a couple of spinners on opening but every time when I released my brakes it cleared it self. I just read in another thread how the majority of people feel that once it opens it it spins its gone, why waste time. What I am wondering is there a speed or intensity of spin that everyone uses to judge, or is it just a flat, if it spins/turns it's gone. Just wondering if I was wasting time or not. I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #2 November 16, 2002 I've had a few openings that started to turn, some of them pretty fast. Steering from the opposite rear riser has been sufficient to stop the turn in most cases, including one or two popped toggles. The one time I had to cut away there was nothing to think about; The spin was very fast and violent, and I had a riser pressing on my cheek and my eye. I just thought: "Oh, so now it happened", and calmly executed my emergency procedures. You'll know when it's time to chop... Oh yeah, when I chopped I was jumping a wingloading of ~1.3, on a TurboZX 145. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #3 November 16, 2002 Quote Steering from the opposite rear riser has been sufficient to stop the turn in most cases, including one or two popped toggles. None of mine have been cured by riser turns, I always have to untsow my brakes, I say always, but it really was only twice I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #4 November 16, 2002 I think you'll know when the time comes. I couldn't have unstowed my toggles if I wanted to. It spun up so fast and so hard there was just no other option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #5 November 16, 2002 I've chopped 4 bad spinners. On 1 the lines were twisted almost to the risers. When I kicked out the canopy dove hard and started spinning. It appeared that the person who packed it had a step thru and had taken on of the steering lines and wrapped it around the lines attached to the opposite set of risers. On the other spin the center of the canopy was torn severly. The other 2 were horseshoes. Altitude awarness it very, very important in a spin. Check it and start counting outloud to guage how much time it's taking to fix the problem. And keep checking your altitude. You drop a lot faster than you realize when spinning. My personal opinion it that it's a good idea to try unhook your RSL (I spun up a reserve on one of the chops) and I believe in allowing time to get stable from a bad spin after chopping. But that's just my opinion and there are more experienced jumpers that say otherwise."Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #6 November 16, 2002 Quote My personal opinion it that it's a good idea to try unhook your RSL (I spun up a reserve on one of the chops) and I believe in allowing time to get stable from a bad spin after chopping. So why would you wear an RSL in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #7 November 16, 2002 Have you cheked your chute for flying straigth? iIwould normaly kick myself out of a spin,if not its voilent... If you dont know,you know..(thats what i was teached.)chop it if you`r not shure,thats why you have the reserve.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 562 #8 November 16, 2002 I have had line twists on hundreds of openings. Even though I was spinning slowly under the canopy, it was overhead and mostly inflated so I took my time kicking out of line twists. However, on my last mal, the canopy was fully inflated, with bad line twists, it was on the horizon and turning hard to the left. There was no way I could kick faster than it was turning, so I cut it away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #9 November 16, 2002 The way to do it!!! Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #10 November 16, 2002 QuoteWhat I am wondering is there a speed or intensity of spin that everyone uses to judge, or is it just a flat, if it spins/turns it's gone. Just wondering if I was wasting time or not. there's really no way to judge this, you have a "hard deck" i'm sure, thats when it's time. "try once, try twice, cha-chink! last mal i had was line twists/spinner, all the way to the toggles and had my left ring finger trapped as well, i freed my finger, and didn't even bother with looking at my altimeter, because i knew i couldn't fix it, i couldn't land it (safely) and i knew i burned some serious altitude freeing my finger, so there's just one instance where looking at your altimeter can be a waste of time, unless you pulled at altitude that is, i pitched at 2500', under reserve around 1500-1600, so a lot of stuff can happen really quickly. take care, be safe.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #11 November 17, 2002 >My personal opinion it that it's a good idea to try unhook your RSL . . . It would surely be a shame if, during a violent spinner, you took the time to unhook your RSL, then found yourself cutting away low - at an altitude that only an RSL could save you. You can choose to not use an RSL if you want, but I would not recommend trying to disconnect it during a violent mal. You run the risk of getting low, and also of prematurely opening your reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #12 November 17, 2002 I would cut away if: -The spin is not getting better and line twists are getting worse -You are in danger of losing consciousness from G's -You can barely lift your arms due to G's -The canopy is getting below the horizon -You are at your decision altitude I would wait a bit if: -The spins are not getting worse, and there's no line twist (or very little) -You aren't feeling a lot of G's -You can steer with risers or toggles -You are above your decision altitude I've had an unrecoverable spinner on a Sabre 150, and a line twist/spinner on an Extreme 99 that I got out of (through steering with rear risers.) It depends on the canopy, the particular mal and the situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcin 0 #13 November 17, 2002 If you are able to unhook your RSL, its probably unnecessary to cut away in the first place. I've had numerous line twists and spins, and was able to kick out all of them except one (@1.8). Then I felt after the first rotation I had difficulties lifting my arm, spinning on my back so it was time to go, no time to play around with anything like RSL. From my experience, If you spin without line twists, rear riser input and shifting body weight will always help. Once your are stabilised you can check if anything is wrong with the breakes/canopy etc. If you have line twists, then grab above twist if the twist is low enough and help untwist with your hands. Otherwise start kicking out like hell. Actually, on more than one ocasion I started kicking out in the wrong direction. Thats possible eg. if twist is so severe and low that risers push your head down and you cant look up. Opening sufficently high an altitude awareness is crucial though. I spent once 1,500 feet untwisting borrowed canopy (one side of the slider got hooked on the Y lines junction somehow) that I was reluctant to chop. I opened very high so I new I had altitude, but even though I was surprised how much altitude the canopy ate in a moderately agressive spin (@1.7). marcin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #14 November 18, 2002 I don't use an RSL. The reasons for using one or not using one have been beat to death on this forum. It's an educated decision to be made by each individual jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #15 November 18, 2002 Sounds like you are getting spins rather than twists. Releasing the brakes normally sorts this out pretty quickly without the need to chop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #16 November 18, 2002 I don't have an RSL....I would say keep it till you have your first cut away *where you pull both handles*. As for when to chop.... 1.Look up. ask your self "Hey (insert name), can I safely land this (Streamer, lineover, broken lines, spinning ball of shit?) 2. Try to fix problem....release BOTH toggles if you don't have line twists...kick like hell if you do. Have a hard deck, and know when to say..."Ah hell, I was almost due for a repack anyway". Mine is 1,000 feet, or as soon as I feel it's not worth trying to fix anymore. (This can be SECONDS, depending on the violance of the Mal.) 3. Fixed???? a.yes Land it...good job!!!! b.NO. Cut away and buy beer!!!! Good job!!! Ron 2,500 jumps 6 cut aways.(yeah I know)."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
