Mister Bill and Tandem question

[JohnSmith 0]

I was thinking purely hypothetically, as I have never done this, if it would be possible to "mister bill" off a tandem. What I would "imagine" is that the "student" would wear the tandem harness under his own rig, and the tandem would exit, get stable, deploy the drogue, deploy the canopy, and then the "student" would be released from the tandem into freefall again. This is different than the standard mister bill as the pair would actually freefall together before a terminal opening as opposed to the sub-terminal opening used in a standard mister bill.

I also "imagine" that to do this the "student" would have to be face to face with the jumpmaster because otherwise the bulk of his rig would interfere with tandem hookup.

I'm wondering if anyone has done this or know's if it's been done. Also, are there any SPECIFIC regulaions against this, either by USPA or the tandem gear manufacturer (assuming that the pair was jumping the latest most popular tandem gear available).

Either way, don't anyone get any ideas to go off and do this, it is very dangerous and scary, and could really freak people out on the ground to see a body fall away from an open tandem, especially the DZ management, and they might get really really mad.

[AggieDave 6]

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then the "student" would be released from the tandem into freefall again

Have you ever dealt with tandem harnesses? They're not really setup to have the upper hooks released anywhere in the air. Beyond trying to convience a TM that it would be cool to be under a nearly 400sq ft (more or less, depending) for a long time...(esp since he/she had to do that once already in training).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnSmith 0]

Well, it's not impossible to release the upper attachements if the "student" grabs the "V" of the risers and sort of stands on the tops of the JM's feet. It's actually quite simple.

The JM doesn't have to be up too long because the "student" would leave at say, 5000 feet and the JM could spiral down.

Also, assume the TM is a friend who WANTS to accomplish this stunt just for fun and wouldn't complain about being up there so long.

Of course, I'm speaking hypothetically.

[betzilla 56]

we have the CD Rom that relative workshop put out about the skyhook, and there's something pretty similar to your tandem mister bill on it (and you're right -- it was freaky watching it). It looks fun. I've always wanted to do a mister Bill.

[floormonkey 0]

I've seen this done with a base jumper. It was VERY difficult to unhook the "passenger." As in so difficult they almost didn't get to do it. The folks involved don't really reccommend trying it. They finally unhooked at about a grand, jumped around 700, did a nice double back layout and deployed (quite low).

[billbooth 10]

I did a dozen or so "Mister Bill" tandem jumps about 15 years ago. I was doing cutaway testing my then-new Vector II meshless pilot chute, and was tired of chasing broken-away mains. I also wanted to see how well the Vector reserve container worked at very low airspeeds, with the "main" still in its container. I had my "passenger" test jumpers put on regular piggybacks over normal tandem passenger harnesses. After opening, they would "stand" on my feet while I unhooked them. Then they simply jumped off my feet and pulled the reserve ripcord, simulating a breakaway, with no main canopy floating off into the woods. On one jump, I had the test jumper pull the reserve ripcord before jumping off my feet, so I could hold onto the reserve pilot chute while she fell away. The reserve deployment was almost instantaneous, and that's where I got the idea for the Skyhook RSL I just released. Sorry it took 15 years to perfect, but a lot of problems had to be overcome before it was ready for market.

[JohnSmith 0]

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I did a dozen or so "Mister Bill" tandem jumps about 15 years ago.

Cool Bill. What I'm wondering is would this get a Tandem Master in trouble with Sigma or RWS. Is there an official rule against it?

Thanks

[billbooth 10]

Not if I don't find out about it. Actually, I would not encourage it, and technically, it would be a violation of the Tandem Vector User Agreement. (I hate lawyers, but what are you going to do? They're everywhere, and they've got big BMW payments to make.) I'm afraid this is one of those "do as I say, not as I do" situations. It turns out it's real easy to get into a side spin if you don't do a perfect exit, head high and directly into the relative wind. Just do your Mr. Bill's with big solo equipment. It's much more fun anyway, 'cause you're liable to break something.

[flyingferret 0]

"bill"booth did a bunch of mister "bills" .... coincidence?

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[mccordia 73]

A Mr Bill tandem was done a few months ago at our dropzone (Flevo, Neterlands)

They've done it quite a few times already.
Only difference with a normal tandem is that the passenger is facing the JM instead of the other way around. (with the Tandem harnass worn under his own rig)

After opening at 7000 ft or so the passenger stands on the JM feet, and they release ll the hooks.

The passenger then just let's himself fall back..

Video was pretty cool..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[billbooth 10]

The main problem doing a Mr. Bill tandem, with the "passenger" facing the Tandem Master, while wearing his own rig, is that if the passenger's rig accidentally opens, both people are dead. I wish you guys wouldn't do that. If both people face the same way, a passenger rig opening would probably not result in a deployment, and would therefore be survivable.

[skydiverek 58]

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The main problem doing a Mr. Bill tandem, with the "passenger" facing the Tandem Master, while wearing his own rig, is that if the passenger's rig accidentally opens, both people are dead. I wish you guys wouldn't do that. If both people face the same way, a passenger rig opening would probably not result in a deployment, and would therefore be survivable.

Mr. Booth - little bit off topic here. I was wondering when we will be able to see the video of SkyHook in action on www.relativeworkshop.com? Pictures look impresive, I am ready for the video!

[billbooth 10]

I'll try to get the Skyhook video up this week or next. There were infinite details that we had to take care of (like labels, and instruction sheets, and making one size Skyhook set-up fit all the different size rigs that we make) before we were really ready to launch such a revolutionary new product. The video is impressive, and I didn't want to create too much demand until I was really ready to supply. (Almost EVERYBODY who sees the video wants a Skyhook on their rig, including me, by the way.)

[AndyMan 7]

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Almost EVERYBODY who sees the video wants a Skyhook on their rig, including me, by the way.

I think I know what your answer will be, but I'll ask anyways.

What are your thoughts on the skyhook and camera jumpers?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billbooth 10]

I think the Skyhook and cameras are a good mix. Photographers are always worried about the reserve bridle tangleing with their cameras (and rightfully so). Over the years, I've watched videos of countless reserve deployments without the Skyhook, and quite often, the pilot chute or bridle "bounce" all over the place in the burble. There is absolutely none of this disorder in a Skyhook deployment. So, it would appear that the chance of an entanglement with a Skyhook installed would be a lot LESS. But, let's face it. We probably won't know anything for sure for 10 years or so, because reserves don't get used all that often.

[stylin 1]

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I especially the DZ management, and they might get really really mad.

Theyre always getting mad, so what else is new? The last time they got mad at me was when I pulled off the harness and dropped it on the ground without picking it up right away. Before that, I put on the altimeter with a glove on each hand, didnt count at the top of my lungs on the way out the door (like it really matters), and I asked someone in the plane if he wasnt wearing goggles on the way down. Seems like Im always making them mad.

Lets get to really, really mad. Try doing a hanging exit off a wing strut instead of a poised exit when they want you to do that, then right after that, flip a few times while youre still on a static line.

Thats the difference between mad, and really really mad. Havent even gotten to really, really, really mad yet, but then again, Im just starting out. Ha ha.

Im thinking, wear a wetsuit, and bring my 6'9 surfboard up with me next time so I can go skysurfing???

Naw, that would be really, really, really, really mad, Im still working on really, really, really.

[loughery 0]

Do you think that a Mr. Bill is named for Bill Booth?

TOT

TOT
www.SkydiveMoncton.com

To my wife: 'If you ask me to stop skydiving, you are asking me to move out!'

[buzzfink 5]

Bill Booth wrote: (I hate lawyers, but what are you going to do? They're everywhere, and they've got big BMW payments to make.)

Hey, Bill. Don't insult BMW owners by associating them with lawyers.


Buzz

[flyingferret 0]

I wonder?

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[billdo 0]

It seems to me when I read this post that the author is hinting at the fact that he recently did this stunt. And the DZ management probably did get mad from the sound of it. The name "JohnSmith" even sounds like a fake and look at the profile.

"Skydive the Ozarks" Cracked me up, but come on!

[billvon 2,436]

We tried that at Brown a few years back. Couldn't get one of the hooks disconnected (it was a strong tandem rig) and they had to land that way. The problem was that the loading on the double ring pressed the lower ring (where the upper student harness snaps attach to) into the harness, making a disconnection very difficult.

[betzilla 56]

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"Skydive the Ozarks" Cracked me up, but come on!

I think Skydive the Ozarks really exists. I'm pretty sure I've seen that name somewhere.