NoShitThereIWas 0 #1 April 3, 2003 Hi All, I am doing a research paper/presentation for my Physics 2B class and was wondering if anyone has any ideas of good sources of information. I have already checked out John Kallend's website and am using some of his good stuff but I am thinking about doing the paper on gravity vs. air resistance and the effect of the surface area of a skydiver's body on his/her directional control. Also how the same principles apply to deployment and inflation of the canopy and a bit of Bernoulli's principles regarding flying the RAM Air canopy. If anyone has any good insight or bibliographical resources, I knew this was the place to come. Thanks in advance and Blue Skies!Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eddytheeagle 0 #2 April 3, 2003 Nice that you can combine study and hobby. On the website of Parks College Parachute Research Group there's lots of information on the opening of parachutes and more. Quote and a bit of Bernoulli's principles regarding flying the RAM Air canopy Be aware, you're opening a can of worms here Without the aim of starting a long discussion on this topic (probably has been done before), Bernoulli's principles only play a minor role in the description of how wings fly. It's Newton's law's which govern this (actually, Bernouilli follows from newtons laws). Good luck with your presentation!Don't underestimate your ability to screw up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #3 April 3, 2003 A presentaion that works well is to take a box fan, lay it on its side (With chairs holding it up so it gets flow). Take some of those hand held fans they give at ball games ect....You know, the ones with a wooden handle. (Or any other flat surface that can be held.... TELL them how we deflect Air to move....Then SHOW them how..Then let them DO it. Combine this with some video of you doing sideslides and turns.... Its a good presentation. hope this helps. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tf15 0 #4 April 3, 2003 Quote Nice that you can combine study and hobby. On the website of Parks College Parachute Research Group there's lots of information on the opening of parachutes and more. Quote and a bit of Bernoulli's principles regarding flying the RAM Air canopy Be aware, you're opening a can of worms here Without the aim of starting a long discussion on this topic (probably has been done before), Bernoulli's principles only play a minor role in the description of how wings fly. It's Newton's law's which govern this (actually, Bernouilli follows from newtons laws). Good luck with your presentation! If Bernoulli follows from Newton (which it does), how can Bernoulli's principle and Newton's Laws contribute differently to the generation of lift? Please don't confuse Bernoulli's principle with the incorrect decriptions of airflow over wings seen in some publications. Three times is enemy action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 April 3, 2003 This text is physics over my head (three semesters of physics). Was a required text for AIAA decelerator conference. Parachutes, not skydiving. From ParaPublishing web site. The Parachute Recovery Systems Design Manual by T.W. Knacke provides the tools to evaluate, select, design, test, manufacture, and operate parachute recovery systems. These systems range from simple, one-parachute assemblies to multiple-parachute systems, and include equipment for impact attenuation, flotation, location, retrieval, and disposition. All system aspects are discussed, including the selection of the most suitable recovery system concept, a computerized approach to parachute performance, force and stress analysis, geometric gore design, component layout, material selection, system design, manufacturing, and in-service maintenance. This is the last word in technical design manuals for recovery systems. Theo Knacke is the parachute engineer's engineer. He is the ultimate authority on escape systems, landing deceleration canopies, aerial delivery clusters, personnel parachutes and spacecraft recovery systems. The manual was written for the US Navy and is published by Para Publishing under contract. Knacke manual. Softcover 8.5 x 11 Kivar cover, 512 pages, 280 illustration, 78 tables. ISBN 0-915516-85-3. $49.95I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #6 April 3, 2003 QuoteHi All, I am doing a research paper/presentation for my Physics 2B class and was wondering if anyone has any ideas of good sources of information. I have already checked out John Kallend's website and am using some of his good stuff but I am thinking about doing the paper on gravity vs. air resistance and the effect of the surface area of a skydiver's body on his/her directional control. Also how the same principles apply to deployment and inflation of the canopy and a bit of Bernoulli's principles regarding flying the RAM Air canopy. If anyone has any good insight or bibliographical resources, I knew this was the place to come. Thanks in advance and Blue Skies! Hi Jen I'll e-mail you a powerpoint presentation I give to high school students on the physics of skydiving. It will need beefing up a bit for college level. I use the clip from Point Break of the 4 minute freefall as an intro.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eddytheeagle 0 #7 April 4, 2003 Quote If Bernoulli follows from Newton (which it does), how can Bernoulli's principle and Newton's Laws contribute differently to the generation of lift? Please don't confuse Bernoulli's principle with the incorrect decriptions of airflow over wings seen in some publications. Well, Newton's laws give you much more than just Bernoulli's princible. For instance, a wing deflects the air down, and by newton's law, this results in an upward force on the wing. Of course, the real situation is much more complicated, and yes, laminous vs turbulent flow over the wing is important. But, I'm not an expert on this. I'm sure there's lots of good (and bad ) info on this on the web.Don't underestimate your ability to screw up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #8 April 4, 2003 So far I have gotten some awesome and amazing feedback and resources. Thanks to you all!!! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #9 April 4, 2003 With all this talk about wings I think it would wouldn't hurt to throw in Birdman/wingsuit flight with the skydiving you already plan on covering since it is probably the truest form of actually flying the human body."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #10 April 4, 2003 hey kallend, any chance of forwarding the ppt to me aswell, I'd like to check it out for my classes. email to [email protected] ThanksYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #11 April 4, 2003 so are you are going to post your end results for the edification of all the rest of us? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #12 April 4, 2003 Do you mean post my actual final draft?Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tf15 0 #13 April 4, 2003 QuoteQuote If Bernoulli follows from Newton (which it does), how can Bernoulli's principle and Newton's Laws contribute differently to the generation of lift? Please don't confuse Bernoulli's principle with the incorrect decriptions of airflow over wings seen in some publications. Well, Newton's laws give you much more than just Bernoulli's princible.. That is not true, PROVIDED you do the calculations correctly. Some things to think about: How is the air deflected downwards unless there are pressure differences? How can there be pressure differences unless there are velocity differences? How can the lift force be inconsistent with the pressure differences? Three times is enemy action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #14 April 4, 2003 Quotehey kallend, any chance of forwarding the ppt to me aswell, I'd like to check it out for my classes. email to [email protected] Thanks I updated it a bit (Jen - take note) and put it on my web site at www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 April 4, 2003 yes, i'd love to read it..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #16 April 4, 2003 Doesn't seem to wanna download.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #17 April 4, 2003 QuoteDoesn't seem to wanna download. Has a mind of its own, I guess. Works for me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #18 April 4, 2003 Maybe it's this stupid firewall of mine again. I'll give it a shot from home.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #19 April 4, 2003 Thanks John and I will post the final draft when it is finished for those interested. Blues. Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,649 #20 April 5, 2003 Quote Thanks John and I will post the final draft when it is finished for those interested. Blues. Did you notice your picture on the web site?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
