Pressure to give up skydiving ?!

[Tonto 1]

Keep jumping.

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Blue Skies,

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[PurpleBadger 0]

My family seem to agree (at least to my face), that if anything happens to me whilst skydiving, at least it will have happened doing something that i love to do.

It doesn't mean that they don't think that I am crazy, nor that they have any inclination to take up skydiving, but they accept it

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[kryos 0]

That's something I always wondered about ... and my emotions go both ways on it. To all you parents out there ... especially single parents with very young children ... does it ever worry you that if something were to go tragically wrong on a jump ... and you were either killed or left permanently disabled ... what would happen to your kids? Do you make special arrangements in advance ... find someone you trust who would commit to raising your children if you couldn't?

I'm not trying to start a war here ... I honestly am curious. During the period of time I jumped ... and never achieved any real mastery of the sport ... I often wondered if I would stick it out the way I was doing if there were children involved. Wouldn't that be incredibly selfish, especially if I were a single parent?

Then one day I was at the dz and another girl I knew was working on her student progression. She was a divorced mother who had something like four young children. Where she even got the money to skydive was beyond me since she did not exactly have a great job, and I knew her parents helped her to make ends meet. I often wondered about her fitness as a good mother ... spending money on jumps that should be going for some of her children's basic needs.

Anyway ... on this particular day she was doing one of her final jumps on a static line progression program. She was on like her 30 or 45 second delays. She went up in the Cessna with her jumpmaster, while I was on a Porter load of licensed skydivers. Since our load went up first, I had just landed when I noticed a group forming on the landing field. They were counting down 3-2-1 ... turns out they were waiting for the AAD to fire her reserve, because she had lost altitude awareness and had not pulled. Her jumpmaster, fortunately, caught up to her and got something over her head, and then barely beat his Cypres.

They both landed off the dz, and people raced to where they were coming down. When she returned, although she was physically fine, emotionally she was a wreck. Of course, I was not privy to what went on in the debriefing room, but I did note that she looked much better after she came out ... so it couldn't have been that bad. I also noted that three of her children were playing ... right there on the dz ... as this closely-adverted tragedy was taking place. I also remember my shock when, a couple of weeks later, she was back at the dz ... still jumping ... her kids still right there in the sand pit playing happily.

I'm sorry ... call me "unenlightened" ... but I lost all respect for her that day. How in God's name can you purposely place your life in danger when you have young children ... children you obviously wanted and thus brought into this world ... children who are totally dependent upon you to provide for them? True, anything in life that we do is fraught with potential risk. You can die crossing a large intersection to get to the building in which you work. But, those risks are not the same in my opinion. Those risks can be termed "unavoidable" risks of daily life. Skydiving is a risk that you proactively take for whatever reason you do it ... thrill, pleasure, challenge, enjoyment. Those things are fine and are the major reasons I continued in a student progression that I was failing miserably at. But, then ... I didn't have any kids, nor anyone dependent upon me for support.

I think when a parent skydives ... a parent who has no one else really to support his/her kids if he/she couldn't ... that parent is selfish ... plain and simple. Had this woman been killed on this particular jump, her children would have probably been placed into foster care ... at least some of them ... because I doubt her parents could have taken in all of them (I think there were a total of six ... with four being very young). I think that situation equates to selfishness ... but mine is but an opinion of one.

I'd like to hear what others think of this. Convince me otherwise if I am "misguided."

Blue skies ...

--rita

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Thanks Canuck. No, no kids. But that's another thing my entire family says to me all the time: "I can't wait until you get married and have kids so you'll stop skydiving.", like that's a given or something. Honestly, I do struggle with that idea too. Should you, as a parent, willingly subject yourself to something risky that's not necessary? Is that selfish?

Well, I guess I'm not having kids.

[allicat 0]

I think these are such good questions. Let me take this a step further. Kryos, when you were jumping, did you have any family? Any parents, siblings, or anyone who would have suffered profoundly had anything happened to you? Is that selfish too? Or maybe not as selfish as being a skydiver with kids?

Is leaving a parent to mourn the loss of their child (which they say is the most intense grief a human being can experience) not as bad as leaving children parentless? I am not saying I believe it is, I am just posing a question.

These are all important moral dilemas that I bet a lot of us, as skydivers, struggle with. I know I do. I don't have the answers either.

[Zenister 0]

so would the children be better off with a mother who slaved at a job she hated, brought the anger home and "played it safe" by never taking risks that make her happy just for the sake of the children?

what happens when that same mother (who never takes risks..) gets killed steping off a curb?

you cant live your life if your afraid of losing it..


tragedy happens..might as well enjoy the moments you have while your alive....and get life insurance for when your not, because no matter how you die someday someone you care about will have to figure out how to live without you...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Guest]

Not in my case. The SO doesn't mind much anymore; just asks me to be careful and gives me a goodbye hug.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[totalwreck 0]

You make several good points, and as I've said previously, these are in fact issues I continue to struggle with. Do I consider myself selfish because I, father and husband, jump and plan to continue to do so? Yes, I certainly do agree that I am acting selfishly if the measure of selfishness is that I am increasing the risk of dying or being injured when I don't really need to. But as I've said before, I do believe that the risk can be managed (I know , I know, not eliminated) and I also feel that I am a happier person now that I have started jumping (even my wife says so, albeit quite grudgingly). We all make personal choices that affect other people’s lives, that is impossible to avoid. The right balance between self-fulfillment and responsibility to family is a personal decision, but given recent advances in technology and training in this sport, I do not agree that just because someone jumps they are necessarily imposing an unreasonable burden on their family. But, of course, I am biased.

The particular situation you described is somewhat different. I agree that this woman was behaving to the detriment of her children. Let's face it, not only is skydiving risky, it is also expensive and time-consuming. If I had six kids, I don't think I would be able to jump and I make a reasonable salary and a flexible work schedule. (Note: I’m not saying someone with six kids couldn’t jump, I’m just saying that I couldn’t.) We certainly don't know the details of the financial situation of this woman, but you have probably guessed correctly that the money spent on training and jumps could have been used more wisely elsewhere. And here's a personal gripe : I have a hard time with folks who bring their kids to the DZ when they are planning to jump and there is no one else around responsible for those kids. Children should be welcome at DZs (most of the time), but the parent should make sure that the kids remain safe and that that responsibility is not by default placed on whoever is not currently jumping.

[Zenister 0]

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Children should be welcome at DZs (most of the time), but the parent should make sure that the kids remain safe and that that responsibility is not by default placed on whoever is not currently jumping.

agreed.

i love kids, other peoples. When they manage them.

a single guy a saw jumping with his son at the DZ once..asked a packer if she'd watch his kid while he jumped.. her look was priceless..but even better was her response....

"dude, i'm on birth control for a reason."

at least half the FF corner fell out...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kryos 0]

Okay, but does your wife jump too? And if she does, do you routinely jump together ... i.e., go up on the same loads together?

I think your case is vastly different. You have a wife ... a significant other who would be there if you were not.

I'm talking a situation here where there is no significant other who would step in to raise six kids (the older ones were not *that* old ... maybe pre-teens). This girl's previous husband, if I recall correctly, was dead at the point she was making these jumps. There was, as far as I could determine, no one other than her parents available to help her out with the kids. In fact, she told me that she always brought the younger ones with her to the dz because six kids would be too many for her mom to handle.

As far as I could see, she had no back-up system in place if she were rendered unable to care for these kids. Oh, I guess her parents could have taken them all in were she to be killed or permanently disabled, but I'm sure opening your house to six kids would be a financial hardship on just about anybody.

I realize we all have to do that which makes us happy, and lord knows ... skydiving sure made me happy. I guess I just honestly wonder if that happiness would have been enough to sustain me were I to have had a young one dependent upon me for not only financial, but emotional support as well.

Blue skies ...

--rita

... and I also feel that I am a happier person now that I have started jumping (even my wife says so, albeit quite grudgingly).

[kryos 0]

Good point, and yes in answer to your question.

No husband (or even significant other). No kids. But, I had two elderly parents who were very, shall we say "uneasy" about my skydiving. Initially, in fact, they were dead set against it. But once they saw how much I loved it ... how I would glow after a day on the dz ... how even when everything on my jumps went wrong ... flunked levels, getting yelled at for doing something stupid ... I still had what mom called "that glow" in my eyes. For that reason, the folks made a decision not to discourage my jumping. It was the first time in my life that they had ever seen me truly happy. The only request the folks made of me ... and this happened after a scare they got upon hearing about a skydiving plane crash and thinking it was local ... was that I call home after I was done jumping and let them know I was on the ground and safe. Then I could wander home whenever I wanted ... and at least they could sleep in peace.

But, even in my case ... true ... I was somewhat selfish, but at least I had the knowledge that the folks were not dependent upon me financially. Even if they were, there would be enough life insurance and other assets to see them through any financial hardship they might experience.

The folks and I had many a long conversation ... talks where I told them ... if I die, don't grieve. Know that I died in a manner where I was living life on my terms and doing what I truly loved. More people should die in that manner. Tragedy is when they die alone in nursing homes ... wallowing in their own shit ... with not a soul to give a damn.

I honestly don't think the folks would have been devastated if I were to die jumping. Their fear, however, was that I would become permanently disabled with no one other than them to care for me. And, when you're in your late 70s/early 80s ... taking care of a disabled daughter may not be possible.

I guess that's why after my accident, I began rethinking my participation in the sport. I was never really any good at skydiving ... most especially landing ... and I sure had my share of mishaps. After my accident ... something that could have truly been much worse than it was ... I woke up following the surgery, not knowing what the hell was going on. All I did know was that I couldn't feel my legs ... either one of them. Terror is not the word for what I went through. I was convinced I was paraplegic. There was no feeling whatsoever from the waist down.

Of course, I didn't realize that I had just had major surgery ... the insertion of rods and pins in BOTH of my femurs ... the result of a really dumb landing ... no wind, poor touchdown ... very little flare ... a canopy that perhaps was just a wee bit too small for my burgeoning weight.

I was one of the very, very fortunate ones, however. Fortunately, for me, the "paralysis" was just temporary ... the result of the shock sustained by my legs during a protracted surgery.

But ... that's when I began thinking ... maybe this skydiving isn't such a good idea. I'm not good at it and perhaps my jumpmasters were right when they said I was an accident waiting to happen. That accident did happen, and this time I was lucky to suffer no lasting effects from it. Maybe the next time, I wouldn't be as lucky. Then I would really be taking a chance with the folks' enjoyment of their "sunset" years ... just because I wanted to take the risk of hurting myself so badly that I would never recover, and would forever be a burden to them.

So, in my case ... at least for now ... I've pretty much given the sport up. Will I ever go back? I honestly don't know. Mom's gone now ... passed away last year ... but dad is left. And while they may not have been in any way dependent upon me before, now dad is very much emotionally dependent upon me, and I know it would absolutely kill him if I were to go back to jumping.

So, I guess this is just a long, round-about way of saying that, yes, I've been selfish too ... but I still say that there is nothing more risky that chancing your children's emotional and financial future ... especially when you have no "plan B" to provide for that ... just so that you can jump.

Blue skies ...

--rita

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I think these are such good questions. Let me take this a step further. Kryos, when you were jumping, did you have any family? Any parents, siblings, or anyone who would have suffered profoundly had anything happened to you? Is that selfish too? Or maybe not as selfish as being a skydiver with kids?

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[EricTheRed 0]

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Okay, but does your wife jump too? And if she does, do you routinely jump together ... i.e., go up on the same loads together?

For me - Yes, and sometimes: If the kid is napping on the DZ couch or at the grandparents house.

We also drive places in the same car.


BTW: I consider anyone that has 6 kids to be selfish. In my opinion they are abusing the right to breed. I love kids but some people need to learn a bit about Birth Control.

illegible usually

[totalwreck 0]

I agree with you. My wife does not jump (and is very unlikely to at any point in the future) so that there would be a parent left if something were to happen to me. So, as you say, the situation is different. If I were a single parent I would probably not jump if I had dependent children for the reasons you discuss. I think you are right -- and remember everyone these are just our personal opinions -- that if you are the sole parent/guardian of young children, you do have an obligation to make damn sure you are around to care for those kids. This is what's known as a risk averse strategy where what you want to insure is that the worst case scenario (i.e., loss of that one parent) does not happen because the result would be so catastrophic to the dependents. And yes, skydiving is different from driving a car, having a dangerous job (although, what if your job IS skydiving?), or crossing the street. For most of us, skydiving is pure recreation and is therefore much more along the lines of discretionary behavior than are the other activities listed above.

[skydivejersey 0]

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