riggerrob 558 #1 July 25, 2003 Yesterday I jumped from an airplane I had never even seen before! Ever since Cessna quit building piston-engined airplanes in 1986, a half-dozen companies have tried to design 206/Beaver replacements. A few have flown prototypes, but only Gippsland has made it into production. To date Gippsland has sold 27 Air Vans and their order book is FULL. The Gippsland Aeronautics GA-8 Sky Van is a new jump plane made in Australia. The company got its start overhauling, then building crop dusters. The Air Van is their first foray into the cargo/bush/jump plane market. And they got it right on the first try. A demonstrator Air Van stopped by Pitt Meadows on its West Coast tour, to allow our chief pilot to fly it and four of us to jump out of it. I really hated leaving that line kit to make a free jump, especially out of a shiny new airplane. Did I ever tell you that full-time skydiving was dirty thankless job? Hah! Hah! From a distance, the Air Van looks like any other single-engined Cessna jump plane, but when you get closer, you soon realize that it is much taller, ergo, no more "Cessna diamonds" on the foreheads of tall skydivers. The Air Van cabin is taller and much wider than most of the single-engined Cessnas, so wide that a pair of tandems could gracefully sit side-by-side and still have enough elbow room to tighten side straps, fumble with seat belts, etc. Speaking of seat belts, I quit counting after a dozen, so it is easy to strap any combination of skydivers to the floor of an Air Van. For comfort's sake, I would add a bob-sled-style bench along the right side of the cabin. Which brings us to the next improvement in the Air Van: windows, big windows, windows so big that half of Air Van production is hauling sight-seers off the Coast of Australia. While we are on the subject of wide, the Air Van has a wide, sliding door on the left side of the cabin, aft of the main wheels. The left main wheel is so far forward of the door and so far out that it is useless for group exits. Good! One less thing to hit. It would take a true Wally to hit that wheel! Like other true bush planes, the Air Van has a solid undercarriage that can easily handle short, rough airstrips and the wing is plenty big enough for slow touch-down speeds. The door takes a bit of muscle to open - about 20 pounds of effort both on the ground and in the air. It only takes a couple of tries to learn the technique for opening the door, so the tandem master sitting by the door could easily open it with one arm. This airplane would be great for an IAD or static-line DZ. Tandems would be even easier than from a cargo-door Cessna 206. The only limitation on student jumps would be AFF/PFF. Sure you could do the cargo-door exit ala 206, but some extra handles would be nice for some sort of floater exit. The Air Van door is plenty wide enough, but not quite tall enough for linked exits. You could easily put three floaters outside this door if you had a few more handles. The pilot's handbook says a maxim of 7 jumpers in the door. Apparently there is a skydiving kit available from the Gippsland Aeronautics factory. A factory rep said the skydiving kit includes a wind deflector, but did not mention extra handles. It would be easy to clip an inside floater bar to existing shoulder belt fittings just inside the cargo door. An outside front floater handle near the flap would be nice. I would not want to add external handles or steps for photographers because the door is so close to the tail. The tail is level with the top edge of the cargo door so again it would take a real Wally to hit the horizontal stabilizer. A slightly larger handle inside the upper rear corner of the door would be nice. I tried a rear floater exit, and was well below the tail long before I got near it. My first impression of the Air Van was that it was much quieter than a Cessna on final approach. That should keep the neighbors happy. It is also much quieter inside the cabin. I am not clear how many skydivers an Air Van will carry. With an 1800 pound useful load, that sounds like 7 to 10 skydivers, depending upon fuel load and how heavy the pilot is. A factory rep re-assured me that the Air Van is a true bush plane and performance does not vary with weight, meaning that DZs far from gov't eyes will be tempted to over load it. Our chief pilot flew one load to 10,000 feet to get feel for the Air Van. He said it was easy to fly - though he would prefer rudder trim - and climbed about the same speed as our Cessna 182: 600 to 800 feet per minute. (I peeked over his shoulder.) It Lycoming IO-540 burns about the same amount of 100 low lead avgas as a Cessna 205-206-207, but it carries an extra tandem pair. An Air Van can carry four tandem pairs in comfort, while a CEssna 206 struggles with three, uncomfortable tandems. After this glowing report, what is the downside? With only 300 horsepower and a big airframe, the Air Vans climbs about the same as a 200-series Cessna, albeit far more comfortably. The Air Van is aimed at DZs that are over-working their piston-engined Cessnas, but cannot quite afford a turbine. At US$400,000, a DZ can buy three Air Vans for the cost of one Cessna 208 Caravan for more flexible manifest and quicker turn-arounds. Next stop for the Air Van demonstrator is Oshkosh. Maybe some Rantoulites wills sneak up for a peak at the next generation of jump planes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #2 July 25, 2003 There is a big writeup on that plane in Northern Pilot this month. To me, it looks like a pistion Caravan. Cabin and door are about the same size as those of a "standard" caravan. I As I recall, it has an IO-540, detuned a bit. The door is very cool as it slides forward like a Porter, but apparently on the outside of the plane. Anyway, I think it's a cool plane. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #3 July 25, 2003 Looks kinda like a Caravan... A few pictures: http://www.gippsaero.com/articleZone.asp?articleZoneID=143 _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #4 July 25, 2003 Quote Looks kinda like a Caravan... yeah it does, quite a bit like one....I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #5 July 26, 2003 Last year I went to Belize as part of Calif. Aerial Circus and did 7 demos in 6 days for Maya Island Air. They provided an Air Van for all jumps and to ferry us around the country. It's a good jump ship up to about 5,000 agl and then it dogs out. We had 4 jumpers and 2 pilots. It has room for 7 jumpers and pilot but like I said it is not a rocket ship up high. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 July 26, 2003 A re-think on the Air Van's 1800 pound useful load ... By the time you add a pilot (200 pounds) and 200 or 300 pounds of fuel, you are down to 1300 or 1400 pounds of payload. That translates to 7 well-fed North American skydivers, or at most 10 oriental skydivers. Eight jumpers can comfortably sit on the floor. With the co-pilot's seat rotated aft, another jumper can sit in comfort, but only one (250 pound) skydiver is allowed to sit on the low shelf aft of the cargo door. Air Vans are going to be overweight long before they bulk-out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swanee 0 #7 July 27, 2003 Commando Skydivers located at Tooradin, Vistoria Australia is not far from the factory. We use a GA8 that has had skydiving mods fitted. Very popular with the jumpers, especially this time of year, when it's COLD! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #8 July 27, 2003 I'm on the team that is going to be jumping it at Oshkosh... Looking forward to it!! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #9 July 28, 2003 It would be nice with a turbine conversion. Buzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #10 July 28, 2003 QuoteLast year I went to Belize as part of Calif. Aerial Circus and did 7 demos in 6 days for Maya Island Air. They provided an Air Van for all jumps and to ferry us around the country. It's a good jump ship up to about 5,000 agl and then it dogs out. We had 4 jumpers and 2 pilots. It has room for 7 jumpers and pilot but like I said it is not a rocket ship up high. Sparky Thanks Sparky... Just what a fat guy like me needed to hear! On a positive note...we have a 'sky van' for the weekend at Oshkosh.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoetsch 0 #11 July 28, 2003 ya- I'm a little suspicious of a 8 or 9 person aircraft with the same horsepower as my 182... It seems a bit expensive for the amount of work you can do with it. Two loads of eight jumpers an hour... takes a lot of tandems to make the payment.(you can do that with two nice 182s for a lot less money and more flexibility) I wonder what the insuance will be like... they charge $8,000 a year for a $100,000 C182 jump plane... does that mean you would have to pay over $30,000 year for insurance? I guess anything that is new costs a lot and hopefully you make up for it in maintenance savings. Is this certified in the US yet? I didn't see anything on the website that said it was..."If you're not on the centerline -you're out of control" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 July 28, 2003 QuoteI'm on the team that is going to be jumping it at Oshkosh... Looking forward to it!! Jim, As tall as you are it is going to be a little cramped. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #13 July 28, 2003 Not the fastest plane in the world but hell is it comfortable!! Amd the windows are huge!! And the door is sized to fit a palet straight off a fork lift so its not small. The sliding door is nice and damn its warmer in winter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiggs 0 #14 August 1, 2003 The downside to the GA8; speed!! Its slow on the climb (we have had our 206 faster). It is limited to some slllllllllllllllooooooooooowwww speed on descent (especially with the door open). I believe that the airframe is rated fairly low (descent speed). It is far more comfy than any of the small Cessna. The door does leave a bit to be desired, especially if you want to do some relative work. If there was a nice step and rail outside it could be quite nice. We have taken 9 jumpers in this plane; usually its 8 to height. We have been to 12k in this with 4way + camera (it climbs around the same rate) All in all much more comfortable than the small Cessna's. PS> Have hear rumours about a turbine version; could be interesting but with the price I think a Cresco would be better (if its just used for jumping)"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #15 August 9, 2003 Well.. We jumped the AirVan for the show in Oshkosh... They actually had two of them on hand, one for display on for us to use... First, what a GREAT bunch of guys associated with demonstrating that plane!! All very professional and talented...It's nice to have a jump pilot for a demo that's really on the ball! Kudos' As far as the plane goes...I thought it was perfect for what we do! Plenty of room, big door, and as we exit at 5-6 grand..climbed just fine for us. We really stuffed it Friday...7 of us...all with assorted bulky demo gear. We made two passes, due to the squash factor...I sat in the cockpit, sans gear until the first pass left. The Aussie pilot was funny...as we're taxiing for take off. He says to me..."So, why did they make the biggest guy have to crawl over the seat?" I told him.."We drew straws, I lost...No one 'wants' to fly with you without a 'chiute ON!" He answers back.." I know what you mean, I drew the short one too...that's why I'm flying you guys!" There IS a turbo version in the works from what I was told... and the greatest selling point for skydivers was..."You can have three of these for the price of a Caravan...mate!" Hell...I'll take two! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
