Water Landings

[frogslapper 0]

How bad does water hurt your canopy/rig when you land in it?

[TheMonkey 0]

hurts your cypres, everything else can dry

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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

[nicrussell 0]

Canopy deteration occors for many reasons. Water, Sun (UV light), dirt, Just the basic use of the parachute. Water damages the parachute because as it dries the different materials (the ZP or F1-11, the Load tapes, Lines, and Stiching, etc..) will expand and contact at different rates. This can cause the parachute to be slightly deformed. This is even more pronounced if dried quickly ie, in the sun or by direct heat (Ive seen a hair drier on HOT being used). It is estimated that for every water landing you have is equal to 4 or 5 dry jumps. I am speaking directly of FRESH water, as SALT water is even more degrading.

nic

[FrogNog 1]

> ... SALT water is even more degrading.

There are some submissive canopies that are cool with salt water. Hard openings can be more common with these, but if you whip them around by the risers hard enough to show them who's boss, that reduces the incidence of such misbehavior.

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Pull.

[fudd 0]

One of the quickest ways to dry a canopy is to jump it. I've jumped my canopy when it was pretty wet after a rain jump.

Anybody has knowledge of how bad it is for a canopy to be jumped wet?

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Amazon 7]

At the USAF Sea Survival School the Parasails they used (very similar to a Para Commander) were subjected to HUNDREDS of immersions into the water of Biscayne Bay ( they have since moved to N Fl) The canopies were retrieved from the water after each ride up to 600 ft... where the student would release from the Bertram tow boats and perform a checklist in preparation for a water landing. The Capewell releases or Martin Baker releases were activated upon entering the water. The canopy was picked up by a 36' boat and returned to the small flat top landing craft where the procedure was repeated over and over.

At the end of the day the canopies were sloshed around in fresh water then hoisted up in a mosquito infested barn to hang over night. IN the morning the damp canopies were loaded onto the Landing craft flat top all over again.

This training was conducted year round with only the Xmas holidays being time off.. The training occured 4 days a week year in and year out. The canopies stood up to all of this abuse surprisingly well. Salt Water.... Ultraviolet rays in the south florida sun... abrasion agains the non skid decks....

The students were also shown the effects of jumping thier C-9 canopies in modified (4-line release) and unmodified form by 3 demo jumpers exiting helicopters from 1200' a couple times each week. The jumpers had to bag up the harness and container as well as the reserve belly wart... rinse it all off and return the whole bag to the afroementioned barn... and then they were sent back to the riggers on the main base at Homestead AFB for packing again. I am not sure HOW many jumps into the salt water each canopy went thru but I know it was a considerable number.

If one of those riggers is out there it would be interesting to know just HOW many times each of those canopies was used. From my standpoint as one of the demo jumpers... and one who volunteered many many times to demo the parasail ride ( who the hell cared if I was going to get cold in the 65 degree winter weather water... or wet That shit was fun man) I think all of the equipment was well used... and stood up to it all amazingly well.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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One of the quickest ways to dry a canopy is to jump it. I've jumped my canopy when it was pretty wet after a rain jump.

Anybody has knowledge of how bad it is for a canopy to be jumped wet?

Jumping a wet canopy is absolutely the fastest and best way to dry it in my opinion. I have done it on several occasions and the canopies I have done it with have not shown any ill effects. It is CERTAINLY preferable to laying it out in the sun.

Canopies will either smack open or open slightly more slowly. I have been smacked once and had many "regular" openings. I wouldn't recommend taking a wet canopy to terminal, but I have gotten away with it no problem. The intent is to fly the damn thing dry, so dumping high, or right out the door is the best way to expose it to the air. I don't know a single pond swooper who has not had to do this.

As to the "you will ruin your CYPRES" comment: you will only do that if you don't get right up and out of the water. I have a rig with a CYPRES that has been in the pond five times four times with no ill effects. Generally, if you chow and get up reasonably quick, only your reserve PC, freebag and outside tail wrap of your reserve will be wet. My CYPRES got damp on the raft accuracy round of the PSN in 2001, but I just wiped it off and let it sit in the sun for a bit; no problem at all. Actually, I only know one person who's CYPRES has ruined in a pond out of all the times I have seen people chow.

Chuck

[chuteless 1]

Its possible to have your canopy refuse to open if it is packed wet. The water acts like glue, and unless you can get some air into it, you may have to go for your reserve.

Take the time and dry it out for your own safety and peace of mind.

Guys who jump a canopy wet would likely be the first to condemn low openings and yet they risk more with a wet canopy.

[billvon 2,435]

>Its possible to have your canopy refuse to open if it is packed wet.

I've seen hundreds of people jump soaking wet canopies off the NRGB and I've never seen one refuse to open - and they're not even opening at terminal. Have you seen one that stayed bricklike when deployed?

[steve1 5]

I met an old jumper from Colorado this past spring. He was telling about a time when he made an intentional water landing on his Para-commander with a belly reserve. He said he never did dry his reserve out, just kept it packed up, and kept right on jumping. I would think it would have been full of mold and rot. At any rate, he said he had a malfunction shortly there after, and it openned fine. It's a wonder more people didn't go in, in the old days.....Steve1

[mr2mk1g 10]

Canopies not opening when wet is a myth harking back to the days of silk canopies. The major cause of streamer malfunctions on the old rounds of the Second World War was damp silk. It really was quite a real problem.

Given that we don't jump silk or rounds anymore this idea really ought to have died a death.

Caviat: I know this as a p/t military historian not as a jumper of old silk rounds so any old timers feel free to correct me.

[Amazon 7]

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Given that we don't jump silk or rounds anymore

Nope.. never jumped silk... but I love silk,,,, as far as jumping rounds.. HA... I did one this year.. will do at least a couple next year.

I wonder if static electricity could have affected silk canopies

[sdgregory 0]

I jumped a bunch of rounds when I was in the Marines but that was over ten years ago. I am pretty sure that they were silk. I had several water landings and I do not recall them ever drying them out. I know one time I jumped a rig that I knew had been wet and packed wet because it was still damp when I gathered it up and it did smell funny. But we did land in a cow pasture and I took some in the face so maybe I was not smelling properly. Hmm maybe I am not qualified to answer this question.

Shutting up now.

[Amazon 7]

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jumped a bunch of rounds when I was in the Marines but that was over ten years ago. I am pretty sure that they were silk. I had several water landings and I do not recall them ever drying them out. I know one time I jumped a rig that I knew had been wet and packed wet because it was still damp when I gathered it up and it did smell funny. But we did land in a cow pasture and I took some in the face so maybe I was not smelling properly. Hmm maybe I am not qualified to answer this question.

Shutting up now.

No they would have been standard ripstop nylon .. almost the feel of silk..slippery but not silk.. even when I was in the USAF in the 1970's all of the silk was long gone from our military. The stuff felt far different than modern ZP or older canopies made of F-111 feels. I remember that the Soviets were still using them when Belenko landed his Mig-25 at Hakodate Airport in 1976.
The T-10 and various derivations were the Olive Drab ripstop and the C-9's were by then the Khaki, Olive Drab, White, and Orange... a few of the older orange and white were still on shelves but were not packed for use since they were past the 7 year shelf life. Now you could find LOTS of the older canopys areound the old DZ's.. since most of the student gear was round w/surplys harness and containers... at least all the DZ's I jumped at. Most of this was nearly 30 years ago.. and details are hard to come by...I must be getting old.

[sdgregory 0]

Yep you are right. Spoke to a friend this weekend and he said that I had bad a memory problem. They were in fact t-10's and they were nylon. What the hell do I know? Apparently nothing.