lazerq3 0 #1 November 11, 2003 While I was at the dz this last weekend a jumper with about 25 jumps asked if I could show him how to pack..I wasnt sure what the rules where on this at our DZ sold I told him to ask the DZO about it ...They said it was all right and that its just a jumper helping another jumper out.... (yes I am VERY confedent in my packing buy the way) Any Way I found out REAL quick how difficult teaching can be .... it was much like tieing shoes...its easy to do but try to explain it to someone thats never done it.......thats not easy... so any way we got the brakes stowed and I showed him the correct way and ways that wernt correct ... got the nose flaked and in between his legs and then oh shit.... I'm a lefty and hes a righty!!! So I worked through that and showed him about seperating the line groups A @ B ,, then quarter the slider,, then go through C @ D...this again was a little struggle because of the way he wanted to hold it being a righty.. Plus I had problems finding the right line sets looking at it from the different angle... I then stepped in and took over the job to find the line sets and as Soon as I started it was cake again.. however when I handed it back to him to take over it just got confusing looking at it from the backwards angle... at that point I didnt feel comfortable and apoligized to the guy and told him I wasnt feeling comfortable about this and I called over one of our packers to take over...he was busy at the time doing tandems but was then finished... I told the the packer my problem and he kinda laughed and I told him to just start over the the guy... I again apoligized to him and went on my own business ... the guy did get shown and packed his own rig and jumped it ..yes it opened... But I got a good lesson that day ...some things are easier done then explained,,, and know when you over your head ...whether your in the helping in the air or on the ground!!! I'd love to be able to help people pack but maybe I''ll go teach my wife on my canopy so next time I wont look like an idiot!! Hey if I can teach my wife to pack I could teach anyone... (No offence honey) jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #2 November 11, 2003 I "learned" how to pack last Friday. Here I am thinking, how hard can it be? And it's not that it's so difficult, just that I couldn't really remember what I needed to do next. I packed my own rig, though, after being taught for a mere $50 () and jumped my first pack job successfully. I'm thinking this packing business is going to take a lot of repetition to really sink in. Oh, yes, and sweat...lots of sweat...and don't let me forget the cussing! Hard to teach...hard to learn. It's like nothing we've ever done before, but the effort to teach is always appreciated!Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #3 November 11, 2003 Quoteafter being taught for a mere $50 50$!!!!!!Holy shit!!!...come up to ogden skydive and we'll teach you for FREE!!!!! Like Isaidin the post its all about jumpers helping jumpers!!! QuoteOh, yes, and sweat...lots of sweat...and don't let me forget the cussing! You said it!!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #4 November 11, 2003 Quoteafter being taught for a mere $50 I offered to teach you for free! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #5 November 11, 2003 I know you did!!! And you are freakin' awesome for offering that! I wish I had taken you up on it while I was grounded due to the winds because on a medical student's salary (hehehe, what salary?) $50 is hard money to come by. You should have seen the cost of the coach jumps. Two coach jumps, rental gear, three jumps, and a packing class cost me about $300. As a waitress, that's....hmmm.... at least two weeks of work. It's all good, though...just another step to bring me closer to my A. When I'm a grown-up skydiver with a coach rating, I am going to help newbies get their A without depleting their checking accounts. I mean, a newbie has to start considering buying gear, right?!Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelflying 0 #6 November 11, 2003 I give flat packing courses on my DZ and the more dudes I have taught the better I have got at teaching then again I am a school teacher by profession so I come with the package I guesswww.skydivekzn.co.za Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #7 November 11, 2003 Quote But I got a good lesson that day ...some things are easier done then explained,,, and know when you over your head ...whether your in the helping in the air or on the ground!!! I'd love to be able to help people pack but maybe I''ll go teach my wife on my canopy so next time I wont look like an idiot!! Ah, the frustrations of learning to teach! Good effort Jason, and a good lesson for you too. Spend some time practicing your teaching, then spend some time actually teaching. You will get better pretty quickly, and will be learning a lot from your students. If you have a chance, watch other people teach packing and ask the "teacher" to give you some tips. There are standard stumbling blocks and anybody who is really good at teaching has fallen over most of them at one point or another. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) Author, JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taz 0 #8 November 11, 2003 I suffered with packing for months before I finally worked out a system that consistently got the thing in the container with minimal fuss. One of the best things I learned was to take advice from different people--everyone has their own tricks. I learned the main steps from one person, then picked up little helpful hints along the way. I sweated like hell every single pack job until a woman at the first Chicks Rock boogie showed me how to get the canopy in the bag HER way--all the guys were like, "just wrap your hand around the whole thing and push it in" but my hands weren't big enough for the task! Keep learning. -TIt's the Year of the Dragon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #9 November 11, 2003 In Finland we learn to pack from Jump No. 1 . We pack our own from the start. Ofcource during the first jumps theres someone to show you how its done. Also after you have learnt how to pack, a licenced jumper will have to inspect your packing. No one ever takes money for teaching how to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #10 November 11, 2003 Quoteafter being taught for a mere $50 *** ----------------------------------------------- Unfurtunately, when you have a packer teach you, that's about what it costs. Think of it this way, On a steady day I can pack at least 5 rigs an hour. Do the math, at 5 bucks a rig thats 25 bucks an hour. Packing lessons only cost $12 an hour. I can't pack and teach you at the same time. You just cost me $13 bucks an hour. That being said, there are always people who are willing to help, myself included.I have taught and coached a few people free of charge.But, you can't go to a busy matt and expect someone to do something for free when they are making money.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #11 November 11, 2003 I learned the secret to packing right from the start................a $5 Bill! MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weekendwonder 0 #12 November 12, 2003 I guess packing proficiency isn't required for release from student status anymore? That's how I learned to first flat pack. Learned to pro pack from my rigger/equipment broker when I bought my first ZP canopy. That was part of the service. Not to rant, but with the proliferation of "for hire packers" (and yes, I've used them at boogies when jumping hard all day), it seems that a lot of newer jumpers don't feel the need to spend the time required to learn their equipment for themselves. Kind of sad... Bob P. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites elfanie 0 #13 November 12, 2003 QuoteI guess packing proficiency isn't required for release from student status anymore? That's how I learned to first flat pack. Bob P. Being able to pack your own chute is required for the class A still...yes. doesn't mean you have to be good at it, doesn't mean you have to continue to pack it. Means you have to be able to pack at least one parachute in your life without assistance. (and you don't even have to jump it. ) Me? I'm in the process of learning to flat pack, and can do 90% of it by myself now. (some of it I'm having trouble with the sheer strength required...it's a Nav 220 with ripcord and I don't have the strength to close the pack myself...working on figuring out how to do that and finding it very difficult.) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #14 November 12, 2003 Crawling around on the floor with my (_*_) in the air or $5? Think I will take door number 2 Can I pack? Yep. Packed all the parachutes I ever have to pack. And yes I Jumped it on a hop-n-pop and it opened. Now I never have to crawl around on the floor with my (_*_) up in the air and besides the girl packers (_*_) look much better then mine and hey they got to eat too. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Designer 0 #15 November 12, 2003 Geez,charging $50 is almost criminal.We don,t charge at my home DZ.Not to say charging is bad.At larger DZ,s it's the norm.$20 bucks might be what I would charge.Teaching is tough.We are trying to get this guy over the "HUMP".Everything does not have to be perfect in your pack job.I break it down into the easiest of steps.1.)Clear Air channel.2.)Cock pilot chute.3.)Tight roll makes for tight folds.4.)Pull bag around folds on 1 side.5.)Make sure to get 1 stow.(Holds rest of parachute in bag.)6.)Check cocked pilot chute again.(stuff gets moved around in bag.) 7.)Nice neat line stows.Follow manufacturers recommendations for closing.8.)Finally,I learned the quickest way to fold pilot chute and bridle.Simple! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MyOwnWay 0 #16 November 12, 2003 i have never heard of charging someone just to teach them how to pack. probably because my dz is ran by college students. we are a club not a business. i have taught a lot of ppl how to pack and never even thought to charge them. we do a lot of things at our dz for free or next to nothing because we want to introduce the sport to students. and, as everybody knows, college students aren't exactly the richest ppl._________________________________________ all good things are wild and free - Henry David Thoreau Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weekendwonder 0 #17 November 12, 2003 Point taken and it's certainly a choice we each make. As I said, I'm not adverse to hiring a packer, but as a routine practice, it's not for me. Just believe that packing yourself helps you to learn about and reinforces your understanding of that piece of cloth and mass of strings upon which your life depends. Think that would be useful, particularly to someone starting out in the sport. And to the point of the original thread, I'm happy to help out someone who is trying to learn to pack for themselves without $ changing hands. Blues, Bob P. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KolibrieLinda 0 #18 November 12, 2003 QuoteIn Finland we learn to pack from Jump No. 1 . We pack our own from the start. Ofcource during the first jumps theres someone to show you how its done. Also after you have learnt how to pack, a licenced jumper will have to inspect your packing. No one ever takes money for teaching how to pack. Here in Holland it's the same. Until we've done a test we're not allowed to pack without the checks. But it is all for free.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dagny 0 #19 November 14, 2003 QuoteQuoteafter being taught for a mere $50 *** ----------------------------------------------- Unfurtunately, when you have a packer teach you, that's about what it costs. Think of it this way, On a steady day I can pack at least 5 rigs an hour. Do the math, at 5 bucks a rig thats 25 bucks an hour. Packing lessons only cost $12 an hour. I can't pack and teach you at the same time. You just cost me $13 bucks an hour. That being said, there are always people who are willing to help, myself included.I have taught and coached a few people free of charge.But, you can't go to a busy matt and expect someone to do something for free when they are making money. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you've stated, but it seems that you assumed I walked onto a busy packing mat and requested a packer teach me. Then you seem to insinuate that I feel the cost, in this case $50, was unjustified and that I should have been taught for free. Here is the issue. I've been working on getting my A requirements fulfilled recently and packing was one that needed to be met. From the beginning, I was told that packing would be taught after I completed AFF by one of the packers for $50. I was never told there were other options available to me. It wasn't until a boogie that I was informed that others could teach me how to pack for little to no out of pocket expense. Packing at my home DZ is only taught on weekdays which are typically slower. The packer who taught me missed packing a few rigs for the first hour or two and then continued to pack for money while I practiced what I was learning. So, the mat wasn't especially busy that day and he didn't have to refrain from making money just to teach me. I like to think of myself as considerate and would never try to keep someone from making a living just because it's hard for me to come up with extra cash. In fact, I was offered coach jumps from my AFF instructor for the cost of his jump ticket only. I never bothered him for the coach jumps when tandems were in the house and, in the end, I paid full cost for the coach jumps because I felt better doing that. Perhaps the biggest issue I have here is that no other options were presented to me and, had I not recently picked up a job, I would have had great difficulty obtaining my A. Progression in this sport, at least in the States, is dependent on getting the A license. Otherwise, one had best be content doing solos. I was not content with that. I just feel that in making student progression more difficult, either through scheduling or financing, fewer AFF students will remain skydivers long-term.Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #20 November 14, 2003 QuoteCrawling around on the floor with my (_*_) in the air or $5? Think I will take door number 2 Can I pack? Yep. Packed all the parachutes I ever have to pack. And yes I Jumped it on a hop-n-pop and it opened. Now I never have to crawl around on the floor with my (_*_) up in the air and besides the girl packers (_*_) look much better then mine and hey they got to eat too. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but my personal opinion is that if you're a skilled jumper but a poor packer, you're really only half a skydiver. I've paid for plenty of pack jobs, but I still pack for myself on a regular basis, and I work to improve my packing skills the same way I work to improve my jumping skills. Otherwise, what are you going to do when you're at a boogie and the load is on a 20 minute call, and your rig is sitting in an unpacked, daisy chained pile, and the packers are all backed up? What about those times when a buddy needs you to pack for them so that they can grab a bite to eat and still make the load with you? What happens when you visit a small drop zone that doesn't offer packing services, and you haven't packed your own chute in three years? Sure, these days most jumpers at large drop zones can get away with rarely packing for themselves, but saying you've packed all the parachutes you'll ever have to pack because you packed for yourself once and got signed off on your "A" license proficiency card seems pretty foolhardy. We seem to be slowly loosing more and more of the skills that used to be required to jump. We've already seen the ability to spot a load disappear. Are we now going to see the ability of jumpers to pack for themselves go the same way? --Douva D-22772I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #21 November 14, 2003 Actually Dagny, my post wasn't directed at you, so my apologies. It seems a few people posted as to why they didn't understand the cost involved as far as packing lessons are concerned. At a small DZ Or club oriented DZ people run things less like a business. That's fine, and I think it's great. At a large DZ, someone has to pay for those large aircraft and fast turn arounds. Unfortunately, it has to be everyone. The insinuation was not that you walked up to a busy matt and expected service. I am just a firm believer in " time is money". Maybe later, over a few beers, we'll learn to pack. You had those offers, and I think it is great that people are looking out for you.Unfortunately, you didn't take them, and paid the going rate.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #22 November 14, 2003 well that means if I take my care to a mechanic that I am half a driver cuz I don't change my own oil? I watch every pack job on the rig I am jumping, once I buy my own gear(anyone have a spectre or a sabre2 230 and a rig that will fit a 6'2" 230 male for sale ) I will be more inclined to pack it more then once every two or three months. Preffering to pay a packer over putting myself in the most uncomfortable postions that packing requires ( for me anyway) does not make me half a skydiver. Makes me smarter as $5 is a lot easier on my knees then crawling around on the floor. Plus I know the packers sure appreciate the $$$$$$$$$ MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites krkeenan 0 #23 November 14, 2003 QuoteI learned the secret to packing right from the start................a $5 Bill! And as long as that is your attitude, you will be a substandard skydiver. I don't know you, but I am simply responding to your statement. People who have never learned to pack will never have the insight into gear operation that packing jumpers do. They will always lack a certain amount of familiarity with their own equipment which may cause them trouble one day. Kevin K.====================== Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #24 November 14, 2003 There's no such thing as a non-packing jumper in the UK. The concept is a very odd one... I also don't know anyone who has had to pay for a packing lesson. Here you don't bother one of the packers who's job it is to pack for the DZ staff, but any experianced jumper worth his salt will gladly (ok not gladly) but there will always be an experianced jumper who will be happy to give up 5 mins to give a packing lesson. Its called giving back to the sport. It upsets me that there are places where a student can't find a packing lesson for free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,405 #25 November 14, 2003 >I watch every pack job on the rig I am jumping . . . Hmm, I could see getting a pack job because you're busy, but personally I wouldn't bother if it takes just as much time whether you pack it yourself or not. >Preffering to pay a packer over putting myself in the most >uncomfortable postions that packing requires ( for me anyway) . . . It might be worth learning to pack without kneeling. When I pack I'm on the ground for maybe 30 seconds - once to get the canopy in the bag and once to close the container. Other than that I'm standing. It takes me 6-7 minutes which is usually faster than a packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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catfishhunter 1 #11 November 11, 2003 I learned the secret to packing right from the start................a $5 Bill! MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekendwonder 0 #12 November 12, 2003 I guess packing proficiency isn't required for release from student status anymore? That's how I learned to first flat pack. Learned to pro pack from my rigger/equipment broker when I bought my first ZP canopy. That was part of the service. Not to rant, but with the proliferation of "for hire packers" (and yes, I've used them at boogies when jumping hard all day), it seems that a lot of newer jumpers don't feel the need to spend the time required to learn their equipment for themselves. Kind of sad... Bob P. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elfanie 0 #13 November 12, 2003 QuoteI guess packing proficiency isn't required for release from student status anymore? That's how I learned to first flat pack. Bob P. Being able to pack your own chute is required for the class A still...yes. doesn't mean you have to be good at it, doesn't mean you have to continue to pack it. Means you have to be able to pack at least one parachute in your life without assistance. (and you don't even have to jump it. ) Me? I'm in the process of learning to flat pack, and can do 90% of it by myself now. (some of it I'm having trouble with the sheer strength required...it's a Nav 220 with ripcord and I don't have the strength to close the pack myself...working on figuring out how to do that and finding it very difficult.) -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #14 November 12, 2003 Crawling around on the floor with my (_*_) in the air or $5? Think I will take door number 2 Can I pack? Yep. Packed all the parachutes I ever have to pack. And yes I Jumped it on a hop-n-pop and it opened. Now I never have to crawl around on the floor with my (_*_) up in the air and besides the girl packers (_*_) look much better then mine and hey they got to eat too. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #15 November 12, 2003 Geez,charging $50 is almost criminal.We don,t charge at my home DZ.Not to say charging is bad.At larger DZ,s it's the norm.$20 bucks might be what I would charge.Teaching is tough.We are trying to get this guy over the "HUMP".Everything does not have to be perfect in your pack job.I break it down into the easiest of steps.1.)Clear Air channel.2.)Cock pilot chute.3.)Tight roll makes for tight folds.4.)Pull bag around folds on 1 side.5.)Make sure to get 1 stow.(Holds rest of parachute in bag.)6.)Check cocked pilot chute again.(stuff gets moved around in bag.) 7.)Nice neat line stows.Follow manufacturers recommendations for closing.8.)Finally,I learned the quickest way to fold pilot chute and bridle.Simple! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MyOwnWay 0 #16 November 12, 2003 i have never heard of charging someone just to teach them how to pack. probably because my dz is ran by college students. we are a club not a business. i have taught a lot of ppl how to pack and never even thought to charge them. we do a lot of things at our dz for free or next to nothing because we want to introduce the sport to students. and, as everybody knows, college students aren't exactly the richest ppl._________________________________________ all good things are wild and free - Henry David Thoreau Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekendwonder 0 #17 November 12, 2003 Point taken and it's certainly a choice we each make. As I said, I'm not adverse to hiring a packer, but as a routine practice, it's not for me. Just believe that packing yourself helps you to learn about and reinforces your understanding of that piece of cloth and mass of strings upon which your life depends. Think that would be useful, particularly to someone starting out in the sport. And to the point of the original thread, I'm happy to help out someone who is trying to learn to pack for themselves without $ changing hands. Blues, Bob P. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KolibrieLinda 0 #18 November 12, 2003 QuoteIn Finland we learn to pack from Jump No. 1 . We pack our own from the start. Ofcource during the first jumps theres someone to show you how its done. Also after you have learnt how to pack, a licenced jumper will have to inspect your packing. No one ever takes money for teaching how to pack. Here in Holland it's the same. Until we've done a test we're not allowed to pack without the checks. But it is all for free.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #19 November 14, 2003 QuoteQuoteafter being taught for a mere $50 *** ----------------------------------------------- Unfurtunately, when you have a packer teach you, that's about what it costs. Think of it this way, On a steady day I can pack at least 5 rigs an hour. Do the math, at 5 bucks a rig thats 25 bucks an hour. Packing lessons only cost $12 an hour. I can't pack and teach you at the same time. You just cost me $13 bucks an hour. That being said, there are always people who are willing to help, myself included.I have taught and coached a few people free of charge.But, you can't go to a busy matt and expect someone to do something for free when they are making money. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting what you've stated, but it seems that you assumed I walked onto a busy packing mat and requested a packer teach me. Then you seem to insinuate that I feel the cost, in this case $50, was unjustified and that I should have been taught for free. Here is the issue. I've been working on getting my A requirements fulfilled recently and packing was one that needed to be met. From the beginning, I was told that packing would be taught after I completed AFF by one of the packers for $50. I was never told there were other options available to me. It wasn't until a boogie that I was informed that others could teach me how to pack for little to no out of pocket expense. Packing at my home DZ is only taught on weekdays which are typically slower. The packer who taught me missed packing a few rigs for the first hour or two and then continued to pack for money while I practiced what I was learning. So, the mat wasn't especially busy that day and he didn't have to refrain from making money just to teach me. I like to think of myself as considerate and would never try to keep someone from making a living just because it's hard for me to come up with extra cash. In fact, I was offered coach jumps from my AFF instructor for the cost of his jump ticket only. I never bothered him for the coach jumps when tandems were in the house and, in the end, I paid full cost for the coach jumps because I felt better doing that. Perhaps the biggest issue I have here is that no other options were presented to me and, had I not recently picked up a job, I would have had great difficulty obtaining my A. Progression in this sport, at least in the States, is dependent on getting the A license. Otherwise, one had best be content doing solos. I was not content with that. I just feel that in making student progression more difficult, either through scheduling or financing, fewer AFF students will remain skydivers long-term.Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #20 November 14, 2003 QuoteCrawling around on the floor with my (_*_) in the air or $5? Think I will take door number 2 Can I pack? Yep. Packed all the parachutes I ever have to pack. And yes I Jumped it on a hop-n-pop and it opened. Now I never have to crawl around on the floor with my (_*_) up in the air and besides the girl packers (_*_) look much better then mine and hey they got to eat too. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but my personal opinion is that if you're a skilled jumper but a poor packer, you're really only half a skydiver. I've paid for plenty of pack jobs, but I still pack for myself on a regular basis, and I work to improve my packing skills the same way I work to improve my jumping skills. Otherwise, what are you going to do when you're at a boogie and the load is on a 20 minute call, and your rig is sitting in an unpacked, daisy chained pile, and the packers are all backed up? What about those times when a buddy needs you to pack for them so that they can grab a bite to eat and still make the load with you? What happens when you visit a small drop zone that doesn't offer packing services, and you haven't packed your own chute in three years? Sure, these days most jumpers at large drop zones can get away with rarely packing for themselves, but saying you've packed all the parachutes you'll ever have to pack because you packed for yourself once and got signed off on your "A" license proficiency card seems pretty foolhardy. We seem to be slowly loosing more and more of the skills that used to be required to jump. We've already seen the ability to spot a load disappear. Are we now going to see the ability of jumpers to pack for themselves go the same way? --Douva D-22772I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #21 November 14, 2003 Actually Dagny, my post wasn't directed at you, so my apologies. It seems a few people posted as to why they didn't understand the cost involved as far as packing lessons are concerned. At a small DZ Or club oriented DZ people run things less like a business. That's fine, and I think it's great. At a large DZ, someone has to pay for those large aircraft and fast turn arounds. Unfortunately, it has to be everyone. The insinuation was not that you walked up to a busy matt and expected service. I am just a firm believer in " time is money". Maybe later, over a few beers, we'll learn to pack. You had those offers, and I think it is great that people are looking out for you.Unfortunately, you didn't take them, and paid the going rate.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #22 November 14, 2003 well that means if I take my care to a mechanic that I am half a driver cuz I don't change my own oil? I watch every pack job on the rig I am jumping, once I buy my own gear(anyone have a spectre or a sabre2 230 and a rig that will fit a 6'2" 230 male for sale ) I will be more inclined to pack it more then once every two or three months. Preffering to pay a packer over putting myself in the most uncomfortable postions that packing requires ( for me anyway) does not make me half a skydiver. Makes me smarter as $5 is a lot easier on my knees then crawling around on the floor. Plus I know the packers sure appreciate the $$$$$$$$$ MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites krkeenan 0 #23 November 14, 2003 QuoteI learned the secret to packing right from the start................a $5 Bill! And as long as that is your attitude, you will be a substandard skydiver. I don't know you, but I am simply responding to your statement. People who have never learned to pack will never have the insight into gear operation that packing jumpers do. They will always lack a certain amount of familiarity with their own equipment which may cause them trouble one day. Kevin K.====================== Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #24 November 14, 2003 There's no such thing as a non-packing jumper in the UK. The concept is a very odd one... I also don't know anyone who has had to pay for a packing lesson. Here you don't bother one of the packers who's job it is to pack for the DZ staff, but any experianced jumper worth his salt will gladly (ok not gladly) but there will always be an experianced jumper who will be happy to give up 5 mins to give a packing lesson. Its called giving back to the sport. It upsets me that there are places where a student can't find a packing lesson for free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,405 #25 November 14, 2003 >I watch every pack job on the rig I am jumping . . . Hmm, I could see getting a pack job because you're busy, but personally I wouldn't bother if it takes just as much time whether you pack it yourself or not. >Preffering to pay a packer over putting myself in the most >uncomfortable postions that packing requires ( for me anyway) . . . It might be worth learning to pack without kneeling. When I pack I'm on the ground for maybe 30 seconds - once to get the canopy in the bag and once to close the container. Other than that I'm standing. It takes me 6-7 minutes which is usually faster than a packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Douva 0 #20 November 14, 2003 QuoteCrawling around on the floor with my (_*_) in the air or $5? Think I will take door number 2 Can I pack? Yep. Packed all the parachutes I ever have to pack. And yes I Jumped it on a hop-n-pop and it opened. Now I never have to crawl around on the floor with my (_*_) up in the air and besides the girl packers (_*_) look much better then mine and hey they got to eat too. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but my personal opinion is that if you're a skilled jumper but a poor packer, you're really only half a skydiver. I've paid for plenty of pack jobs, but I still pack for myself on a regular basis, and I work to improve my packing skills the same way I work to improve my jumping skills. Otherwise, what are you going to do when you're at a boogie and the load is on a 20 minute call, and your rig is sitting in an unpacked, daisy chained pile, and the packers are all backed up? What about those times when a buddy needs you to pack for them so that they can grab a bite to eat and still make the load with you? What happens when you visit a small drop zone that doesn't offer packing services, and you haven't packed your own chute in three years? Sure, these days most jumpers at large drop zones can get away with rarely packing for themselves, but saying you've packed all the parachutes you'll ever have to pack because you packed for yourself once and got signed off on your "A" license proficiency card seems pretty foolhardy. We seem to be slowly loosing more and more of the skills that used to be required to jump. We've already seen the ability to spot a load disappear. Are we now going to see the ability of jumpers to pack for themselves go the same way? --Douva D-22772I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #21 November 14, 2003 Actually Dagny, my post wasn't directed at you, so my apologies. It seems a few people posted as to why they didn't understand the cost involved as far as packing lessons are concerned. At a small DZ Or club oriented DZ people run things less like a business. That's fine, and I think it's great. At a large DZ, someone has to pay for those large aircraft and fast turn arounds. Unfortunately, it has to be everyone. The insinuation was not that you walked up to a busy matt and expected service. I am just a firm believer in " time is money". Maybe later, over a few beers, we'll learn to pack. You had those offers, and I think it is great that people are looking out for you.Unfortunately, you didn't take them, and paid the going rate.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #22 November 14, 2003 well that means if I take my care to a mechanic that I am half a driver cuz I don't change my own oil? I watch every pack job on the rig I am jumping, once I buy my own gear(anyone have a spectre or a sabre2 230 and a rig that will fit a 6'2" 230 male for sale ) I will be more inclined to pack it more then once every two or three months. Preffering to pay a packer over putting myself in the most uncomfortable postions that packing requires ( for me anyway) does not make me half a skydiver. Makes me smarter as $5 is a lot easier on my knees then crawling around on the floor. Plus I know the packers sure appreciate the $$$$$$$$$ MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krkeenan 0 #23 November 14, 2003 QuoteI learned the secret to packing right from the start................a $5 Bill! And as long as that is your attitude, you will be a substandard skydiver. I don't know you, but I am simply responding to your statement. People who have never learned to pack will never have the insight into gear operation that packing jumpers do. They will always lack a certain amount of familiarity with their own equipment which may cause them trouble one day. Kevin K.====================== Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #24 November 14, 2003 There's no such thing as a non-packing jumper in the UK. The concept is a very odd one... I also don't know anyone who has had to pay for a packing lesson. Here you don't bother one of the packers who's job it is to pack for the DZ staff, but any experianced jumper worth his salt will gladly (ok not gladly) but there will always be an experianced jumper who will be happy to give up 5 mins to give a packing lesson. Its called giving back to the sport. It upsets me that there are places where a student can't find a packing lesson for free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,405 #25 November 14, 2003 >I watch every pack job on the rig I am jumping . . . Hmm, I could see getting a pack job because you're busy, but personally I wouldn't bother if it takes just as much time whether you pack it yourself or not. >Preffering to pay a packer over putting myself in the most >uncomfortable postions that packing requires ( for me anyway) . . . It might be worth learning to pack without kneeling. When I pack I'm on the ground for maybe 30 seconds - once to get the canopy in the bag and once to close the container. Other than that I'm standing. It takes me 6-7 minutes which is usually faster than a packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
