Tunnel Flight vs Real Flight

[rjackson 0]

Yep you can get hurt. Got in my friends air tonight and slammed into the wall with my head. Glad I had my full face and I'm sure the drugs will help

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Randy

[wilmshurst 0]

Some great insights on this thread.

Yep, seems harder to fly the tunnel than freefall, the visuals suck, it's cramped, and you feel like human goldfish with your fellow tunnelers and the great unwashed watching you through the perspex. However, because it is/seems more difficult to fly and there is little room, skydiving seems easier and it is easier to relax in freefall (well for me anyway). Thus, even if you don't love tunnel flight, you will love the gain from your pain.

And yeah, fall rate modulation in the tunnel is da bomb - especially going from a hard arch just above the netting to hugging the beachball and seeing how far up the tunnel you can make it.

The only thing worse than a cold toilet seat is a warm toilet seat.

[gregaae3 0]

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IMO, its not really worth it unless you get a good group rate going. Its only a matter of a few dollars versus regular freefall time.

The tunnel is definitely worth it. It is an opportunity to concentrate on your body position and skills without worrying about everything else associated with freefall (exit, break off, opening, canopy, etc). If you have a coach with you, you can hop out for a few seconds, debrief with your coach, and hop right back in to keep on working. Plus it is definitely a lot cheaper. You can buy an hour of tunnel time (the equivalent of 60 skydives) for $600. Assuming a typical rate of $19 per jump, the same amount of freefall time would cost you $1,140 which is almost double.

Besides, if it wasn't worth it, why would so many skydivers use it as a training tool, including the world's top 4-way and freefly teams?

Yea, thats exactly what I said:

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...good group rate going.

But for the money you save, you don't get any exit, canopy time, or landings. Maybe its worth it if you are a national champ, or have many a jump under your belt. But for most people, like myself, you get 10x the experience and money's worth out of an actual loggable jump. Well worth the extra 7 or 8 dollars in my opinion.

[quade 3]

Your profile says you have 13 jumps and I'll assume you've been cleared to solo. Yes, at the stage you're at, concentrating on basic survival and landing skills is priority number one. You absolutely have to get good at that or you won't be skydiving for very long.

That said, in the very near future you'll want to jump with some other folks. While taking nothing away from a complete skydiving experience, there is a really important freefall portion that is the core of modern skydiving. Get good at the freefall portion and usually you'll have a lot more fun and not be frustrated by being the guy that was out of control, went low, corked or otherwise messed up the jump.

This is where the tunnel enters the picture for you.

Is it a complete skydive? No.
Is it the part of the skydive that saves your life? Again, no.

Is it the part of the skydive that most people find very socially rewarding and personally fulfilling? Yes.

You don't really have to be a national champion to take advantage of training in the tunnel. People that just simply want to be "better" during the freefall portion of the skydive can do so very efficiently with a minimal cost in time and money. You still need to put forth the effort however.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Nightingale 0]

I'm booking tunnel time after I get my A. Before then, tunnel time seems like cash that would be better put towards jumps, but after I'm a licensed jumper, I'm looking forward to the opportunity to improve my skills in the tunnel where there's fewer distractions and stuff to think about than in freefall.

[sdgregory 0]

I am a member of the OSU Skydiving club and we are planning a Spring Break Trip to Skyventure. I cannot wait to go. Just watching my student video (I have 19 jumps on video) I can see the remarkable improvement from jump three to jump 24. But what I really see is that as I watch the ground I am all over the sky. Secondly, I have an extremely fast fall rate. Around 145 mph in the arch. My bestfriend whom I have been going through the progression with has a really slow fall rate. Instructors were having a hard time keeping up with me and they were having a hard time staying up with him.

For his 26th jump(my 31) we did a two way. We exited fine but once we let go of each other to do some turns I plummetted past him. I worked hard to slow down and he tried to swoop to me but within a few seconds he was a good 1000 feet above me and we could not get back together.

I look forward to the tunnel time to get a better control of my fall rate.

Of course maybe I should shed 50 pounds too but well I like food and I worked hard to get my gut so I aint getting rid of it

But I definitely want to get some tunnel time. Find my column of air and control fall rate and we will have the club coaches with us? Sounds like money well spent to me.

[marcandalysse 0]

I have to add to my fellow tunnel partner HeatherB's comments..by the way, Bucky, that does NOT look like you in your avatar....and when did you start playing guitar??

First off, don't calculate your $ spent at $600/60minutes....because of time exiting and entering the tunnel, 4 people usually get 25 go-arounds in an hour....around 6 two minute slots each....(Hint:Be first to start off and get an extra go-around)

Also, true, the tunnel doesn't have the fragrances described above, but sometimes you walk out of there smelling like an eggroll or KFC chicken!....and a rainy day in the tunnel is an experience I don't recommend.......

That said, being with a coach in the tunnel is awesome! Two minutes of carefree motion at a time, you can turn lots of points and make plenty of mistakes and still have time to get it right! and you can do things you might not be confident doing in freefall, the coach can help position you, or tap ya on the helmet when you lose eye contact...etc. And as mentioned above, the walls help you recognize your stability or lack of it as you do your moves.

Saturday nite I had tunnel time (so many clothes on that my jumpsuit bearly fit, but I still could move around well!) and repeated a fun exercise a couple of rounds....the next day got in the air with my coach (Sally Hathaway from Team Synchronicity), and on the second jump nailed it down!! What a great feeling!!

Team Sync will be doing a tunnel camp in march or april....Four great women skydivers....hmmm...the tunnel is truly a sensual experience on its own! And I always wear a BIG SMILE in there and laugh alot!!
Bring lots of $$$$ you will get addicted!
Marc

[davelepka 4]

Your cash would be better spent on continuing your canopy education. flying and landing your parachute are the areas where you are most likely to be injured. At this stage of the game, skill in freefall should be taking a back seat to something which can affect your health and well-being. Your freefal skills will do you no good if you are injured in the process of landing your canopy. Current canopy training in the A lisence program leaves alot to be desired. Remember, even a sprained ankle will ground you for six weeks.

It's early in your jumping carrer, be smart and give yourself a solid base to work from to keep you jumping safely for years to come.

[RozeAY 0]

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First off, don't calculate your $ spent at $600/60minutes....because of time exiting and entering the tunnel, 4 people usually get 25 go-arounds in an hour....around 6 two minute slots each....(Hint:Be first to start off and get an extra go-around)

With the recent upgrades, you don't lose a minute at the beginning and end of your session anymore.

Besides, your calculations show you only get 48 minutes of flying time if you buy 60. You definitely get more than that.

[Nightingale 0]

I'm going to do both. At that point in time, I will have some extra cash, so I am planning on both a canopy class and tunnel time to improve my skills all around.

[gjhdiver 0]

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So this past weekend some friends and I were down at skyventure in orlando and started to think that tunnel flight is maybe a little different than real free fall. It almost feels a little like you have to force the dive than just letting it happen. Either that or it was just so friggin cold that we couldn't loosen up.

Anybody have any idea what i'm talking about or have had similar experiences

On a side note though, it was freaking awesome

I just did some tunnel time last week. I have over 136 hours of real free fall and a couple of national medals in 4 and 8 way (albiet some years ago), and it taught me more in 15 minutes than I could have learned in literally hundreds of dives, about centering my turns correctly.

I like the fact that the airspeed is constant in there, and that forces you to maintain correct body position to stay centered. I would definately reccomend it, along with a good coach to adjust your position real time.

That 15 minutes has given me a lot to work on in the future, that's for sure.

[davelepka 4]

***both a canopy class and tunnel time


Well, yeah, that would work too.


Leave it up to me to ignore the obvious.

[Ron 7]

One thing about the tunnel that does make it very cost effective.

I have been jumping over 10 years. I have 3,000 jumps. In those 3,000 jumps I have about 50 hrs of freefall, and have spent 45,000.00 to get those 50 hrs. (OK, some were free, some were paid but you get the idea)

Now I have around 80-100 hrs of tunnel time. The tunnel has been open since I think 97. So thats 6 years. Most of my time has been in the last 4 years. And I would have paid 48,000.00 - 60,000.00 (Yes, some of it was free, and some of it was paid)

So I was able to do more "flying" in 6 years than I did "skydiving" in 10. And it cost less.

Yes, it didn't help me any with exits, or how to swoop a canopy. But it did help with my "flying".

It is a VERY valuable tool. and I dare say that the big leap in 4 way Averages across the board is probley due to the tunnel.

Think about it...I can give you 60 skydives worth of "flying" in a weekend. And it will cost you 600.00 instead of 1140.00. Plus if you have a coach you might pay them 100-300 dollars for that weekend...You would pay a freefall coach's slots (another 1140.00) and 15 bucks a jump (900.00)

So an hr.of coached tunnel 700-1000.
An hr of coached skydive time 2880.00 - 3280.00 (2280.00 for just slots PLUS coach fees 600-1000.)

Thats a big difference.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[marcandalysse 0]

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With the recent upgrades, you don't lose a minute at the beginning and end of your session anymore.
Besides, your calculations show you only get 48 minutes of flying time if you buy 60. You definitely get more than that.

I wish that were accurate. It is true, the upgrades do give more time, but the counter on the screen starts countdown at 2:00 not 2:50....and it is still rare for all 4 of us to get 7 go-arounds....

But it is still worth it. I agree with all Ron mentions above...

PS I add Ron to the list of great tunnel coaches!

[rehmwa 2]

But Ron's skydive total didn't include video. The tunnel has that too.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 7]

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But Ron's skydive total didn't include video. The tunnel has that too.

Good point but I have seen some coaches wear video gear.

And the tunnels video is not always the best....

But still very valid points.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Reginald 0]

I did some tunnel time as a struggling AFF student. Let's just say I didn't struggle with AFF after the tunnel time.

I highly recommend tunnel time for anyone wanting to build particular skills.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[TribalTalon 0]

heh. funny this topic came up, there's a wind tunnel named Adrenlin in Conroe, Texas, about 30 miles north of houston, its right by my house so i went to check it out today. I didnt jump in, but it seemed pretty cool. The thing that shocked me was that the guys that worked at the tunnel, who could do all this amazing freefly stuff, had NEVER jumped out of an airplane before. In fact, they had just started less then 5 or 6 weeks ago. Of course, they were practicing like for hours every day, but still. Pretty impressive. The one major flaw with a wind tunnel in my opinion is that for an AFF student, its easy to forget about altitude awareness. Obviously, in a tunnel you dont need to be checking your altitude, and i could see somebody that's done alot of tunnel time and not real freefall time having a hard time keeping altitude awareness doin the real thing. *shrugs* Other then that, its cool and i plan on goin there soon with one of my buddies who's basically my coach.

[rickfri59 0]

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5 electric fans just 40 feet above your head.

So you're actually drawn up (like a vacuum cleaner)instead of being blown upward? Hmmm... Any difference? I've got just under 100 jumps and I am planning on doing some time in Feb or March as soon as I get over an arm injury. Anybody have tips on how to make the trip cheap as possible (cheapest airline, motel, food, etc.)

[shmali 0]

Drive, camp in your car, eat raman with water boiled on engine. Tunnel time itself is pretty much not that flexible unless you can get a large group together and buy a couple hours at a time.

If you can't drive and your under 24 take X-Fares on Airtran. but there is no guarantee you'll get your flight. The daysinn or hojo right down from the tunnel are ok rates about 40-50 a nite give or take. Or fine the nearest 24hour walmart and 'cough' take up residence in the camping departments tent display

Generally the more people you get to go the more you can split things are bring down cost.

Pineappe Death Juice, If you have to ask you'd rather not know!

[czechbase 0]

If you can fly really stable in the tunnel, you will have almost no problems doing the real thing.

It helped me tons before I did my first freefall.

Being able to backfly in the tunnel and counter if you tumble in the tunnel is much safer than tumbling and freaking out when you are doing the real thing.

Malaysia's got the cheapest wind tunnel!

www.motavi.com

[rehmwa 2]

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5 electric fans just 40 feet above your head.

So you're actually drawn up (like a vacuum cleaner)instead of being blown upward?

You can see both types of facilities. I'd say the consensus is the Skyventure type that draws air up is preferred. I've flown in both and there is not comparison for me, the SKyventure design is very superior.

The Skyventure draw the air up. It's very smooth flow that way. The Flyaway tunnels have a single fan in the floor - this is more turbulent and you don't hear much about serious RW coaching in those, but you see some pretty good gymnastics there anyway. Most of the portables and (all?) the outdoor type are fans that blow up, I think the army facility is too, but not certain.

Ron - I wasn't thinking about the coach bringing a camera - my bad.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NeedToJump 0]

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The daysinn or hojo right down from the tunnel are ok rates about 40-50 a nite give or take.

The motel 6 right next to the tunnel has a rate of about $30 per night if you mention to them that you want the Skyventure rate.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[kallend 1,679]

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5 electric fans just 40 feet above your head.

So you're actually drawn up (like a vacuum cleaner)instead of being blown upward? .)

The air molecules have no idea where the fans are.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pilotdave 0]

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The air molecules have no idea where the fans are.

Sure they do. How else would they know where to go??

Skyventure is called an In-draft wind tunnel. There are ways of reducing turbulence in a wind tunnel that has the fan underneath, but it usually requires a great big diverging-converging duct. Expand the flow, then contract it suddenly. With a few screens in the duct, it can really reduce the speed variations in the flow and straighten it. The advantage is a wide angle diffuser can be used under the tunnel, so the whole thing can be built shorter (unless a second diffuser is used to slow the flow back down before exiting the tunnel, which increases efficiency). But an in-draft tunnel will produce better flow if it's designed and built right.

Dave