Okay, how to make it safer?

[LuvToFly 0]

The question is not to invite a fight. Seen the raging debate over safe-vs-unsafe, etc.

It is to contribute towards a thought-list where the results could be useful in helping people to make better judgment calls and safer skydiving choices.

A lot of you have a lot of knowledge on the topic. Ron comes to mind right away -

What sez' we list some of the lesser emphasized things that can add to safety. This list does NOT negate the main things to remember, flying in high winds; low turning, need for up to date training and currency, etc. But maybe we can come up with some further thoughts about what can we do to make the sport, or in particular, an individual skydive/skydiver safer.

I have read the reports about fatalities, etc and there is a bunch of stuff missing from those reports that we will never know. For instance, what was the mental state of the person who reacted poorly? Stressed out, fight with wife, etc. I think there are some factors behind the scenes that are never fully weighted.

Please no one-liner jokes. I am asking folks for some serious suggestions about perhaps lessor talked about safety factors -

I'll give a couple:

Before you jump, you should be aware that the following factors may affect your judgement, your reaction time, your concentration, and your ability to dive safely.

1) Mental/Emotional condition:

Are you:

- Very pissed off (can affect concentration)
- Very distracted - Something really good, or really bad going on in your life that is taking up a lot of brain CPU cycles?
- Just had a fight with your S/O (emotionally distraught)

Physical:

Are you:

- Overtired from not having any or enough sleep
- Hung over (okay, don't give me a hard time on this one)
- Injured: (heard of an instance where someone had a sore or stiff neck, and had a collision because they had limited range of motion and could not scan the sky but a very limited range. Gotta see who is around you!)
- Sick: Got the flu, body aches, pull out a muscle

Misc. Factors:

- Hearing the call to board a little too late, and rushing to gear up, make the load, etc
- Don't mess with your limitations. Be agressive in your learning if desired, but also be realistic about your abilities


Equipment:

- Do you actually check your webbing? Most people I have seen do not do a complete webbing check before gearing up. Check the seams, under flaps, buckle conditions, paying particular attention to anything having to do with the leg straps.. etc

You get the idea. What can be added to this list? Try to think of things that don't show up on the fatality reports as factors, but we all know as human beings, can play a role in making your skydive less safe - And if you think they are good suggestions, but you don't personally follow them, list 'em anyway - this is not a roast.

Think of it as a list you could hand to someone in the sport as a mental checklist to assess their condition.

You may be saving someone a big mistake by listing some of these things.

Also, you instructors especially, you see tons of weird stuff (related to skydiving, that is). What have you observed that can happen to people to affect performance, concentration, etc.

Note: I know there is information around concerning this. I want to know what YOU think is a factor.

T.B.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[Ron 7]

Here is a start.

short version...Humility is good.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pkasdorf 0]

Good idea!

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[gus 1]

How to make it safer? Help people realise that it's ok to say "no" to a jump or to take themselves out of a group. I've been on jumps where it was a miracle no-one got hurt - because there were too many people on that jump who didn't know what they were doing. Myself included.
But you know what it's like, it's nice to be asked along and you don't want to say no for fear of not being asked again. Now, a couple of years later, I'm quite happy to say no and I have done when I think a jump's going to be a zoo to the point of being unsafe.

Your safety on any one jump is directly related to the people you're jumping with.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[skymama 35]

Quote

I've been on jumps where it was a miracle no-one got hurt - because there were too many people on that jump who didn't know what they were doing. Myself included.

I was on a jump I was a little unsure of in Eloy where someone said to me, "you look like a lamb going in for slaughter". That jump was fine, but you make a very good point.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[LawnDart21 0]

Relating to gear, its recommended that we disconnect our three rings and bend out the "memory" of the ring webbings once a month. Also to remove our cutaway cable and clean it with silicon each month too. Admittedly, I used to go a season without doing that, always counting on my rigger to do it for me each 3 month repack. (Now that I am a rigger, my rigger (me) still does it for me, just more often now, each month...lol).

Inspect your gear more often, thats my suggestion.

TXV Rigging - "My Other Ride is a RESERVE."
Tom

[ZoneRat 0]

Taking too many newbies on the same jump. I was involved in an 8-way a couple weekends back. 4, of 8 had less than 100 jumps under their belt...One or two may have had less than 50.

It was LO'd by someone much more experienced than myself and, despite some misgivings, I deferred to his judgement without comment. That was a personal failure of character. I shoulda stepped up.

Not a big deal. No one got hurt, but we were kinda askin' for it.

2, 4-ways would not only have set-up the newbies for success, creating a nice, controlled learning environment, but would've been safer as well.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>Something I learned recently: Before you exit, always check the spot, and if you don't like what you see, don't be afraid to ask for a second pass. Whether or not you think you can make it back to the DZ, always be looking for multiple outs. I also agree with Ron; when heading out to the DZ, best to leave the ego at home.

[LuvToFly 0]

All really good suggestions and observations -

Will add a few more:


1) Don't be afraid to ask for a coached jump. It does not matter how many jumps you have, or don't have. If you are planning to do something that you do not feel quite comfortable with, get a coach to review that with you, and jump with you if possible while you work on that.

2) Related to above, know when you SHOULD feel unfortable doing something.

Unfortunely, there are so many really talented people flying these days that it reminds me of the first piano player I ever saw as a kid. I thought to myself, "hey that doesn't look so hard - I'm watching his face and he ain't even strainin!"

20 years of playing keyboard later, there are still things that guy was doing that I can't do (sort of ticks me off - but that's another thread!)

The take away I think to be aware that the really, really good ones at anything make it look to damn easy! Do not be fooled by this!

Advice: Do not underestimate the amount of talent, experience it takes to do certain flight manuevers - It may look easy, but it is probably not. Get a coach.


Let's keep it going folks. Great ideas and experiences shared so far!

T.B.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[Kat1221 0]

Be aware of who you're jumping with, and who is out after you. Don't assume they know how much separation to give - a lot of people just count to six or so, without thinking about what the uppers are doing.
Learn how to track! Even if you don't do much RW - a three second delta is not going to give you any separation!

[LuvToFly 0]

Quote

Be aware of who you're jumping with, and who is out after you. Don't assume they know how much separation to give - a lot of people just count to six or so, without thinking about what the uppers are doing.
Learn how to track! Even if you don't do much RW - a three second delta is not going to give you any separation!

Excellent point on the tracking Katrina!

I would add a need to refine the ability be to very accurate in your break away turn rotation prior to tracking. Some folks have trouble knowing when they have completed a 180 with any real precision, and then can track away on a collision course if the timing is right (or wrong, one might say)

Motto of that one - make sure you develop the ability to make 90, 180. 360 turns quickly and to stop on heading accurately.

Practicing turn accuracy during freefall might seem boring or a waste of lift ticket - but that skill may really save you someday -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[tombuch 0]

I know you don't want one liners, but I'll offer one anyway....

"The most dangerous thing a skydiver can do is to forget that skydiving is dangerous."

The point is that as we gain experience we become complacent and forget that we are taking serious risks on every skydive. Many of our fatalities and injuries begin with an experienced jumper doing things they should know are foolish, but we tend to disregard those risks because we are so comfortable in our activity.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't take risks. Heck, the whole sport is a risk. Rather, we should be aware of the specific risks we are taking and make an effort to mitigate those risks where possible.

My worst skydive, and only real injuries I have had, were caused when I joined a bunch of experienced instructors making and unplanned night jump and we considered it "just another skydive." If we had a single student with us we would have briefed the whole thing and probably not even jumped under the given conditions. We just forgot how dangerous the sport can be and made some foolish decisions based on complacency. That kind of poor decision making is far too common among experienced jumpers.

So, once again..."The most dangerous thing a skydiver can do is to forget that skydiving is dangerous."

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
S&TA
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and East

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Kat1221 0]

I would add a need to refine the ability be to very accurate in your break away turn rotation prior to tracking. Some folks have trouble knowing when they have completed a 180 with any real precision, and then can track away on a collision course if the timing is right (or wrong, one might say)***

I'm not sure if an incredibly accurate 180 turn will do you any good if the person next to you is innaccurate or sloppy. Everyone should have a good enough track, and be heads up and aware enough to adjust for others and know where everyone in the group is at all times. Some people just turn and burn without watching others, and its important to be aware and be able to adjust your direction enough so that you as far away from everyone else as possible. A perfect 180 degree turn is not going to guarantee that you will be tracking in the direction that will give you most separation.

Just my opinion though - there are definitely a lot of people out there with much more experience who can better answer this question.

[LuvToFly 0]

Quote

I'm not sure if an incredibly accurate 180 turn will do you any good if the person next to you is innaccurate or sloppy. Everyone should have a good enough track, and be heads up and aware enough to adjust for others and know where everyone in the group is at all times. Some people just turn and burn without watching others, and its important to be aware and be able to adjust your direction enough so that you as far away from everyone else as possible. A perfect 180 degree turn is not going to guarantee that you will be tracking in the direction that will give you most separation.

Just my opinion though - there are definitely a lot of people out there with much more experience who can better answer this question.

Thank Katrina - good observation -

The key really is to know how to have good control over your turning - and to make a determination what way you need to go, and to line yourself up accurately and quickly before tracking. This would seem to be particulary important in a large formation where horizontal separation needs to be attained over a large area with many divers quickly.

The degree examples are given for practice purposes. In other words, it would be very difficult for someone to drill to turn from their present position, 33 degrees, or 68 degrees, or something like that. Learning to execute tight and on-heading 90, 180, 360 teaches the ability to start and then stop on a desired heading, which enhances overall rotation control.

Point taken may be if someone is sloppy about their heading control, the problem is greatly magnified when tracking -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[LuvToFly 0]

Quote

I know you don't want one liners, but I'll offer one anyway....

"The most dangerous thing a skydiver can do is to forget that skydiving is dangerous."

The point is that as we gain experience we become complacent and forget that we are taking serious risks on every skydive. Many of our fatalities and injuries begin with an experienced jumper doing things they should know are foolish, but we tend to disregard those risks because we are so comfortable in our activity.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't take risks. Heck, the whole sport is a risk. Rather, we should be aware of the specific risks we are taking and make an effort to mitigate those risks where possible.

My worst skydive, and only real injuries I have had, were caused when I joined a bunch of experienced instructors making and unplanned night jump and we considered it "just another skydive." If we had a single student with us we would have briefed the whole thing and probably not even jumped under the given conditions. We just forgot how dangerous the sport can be and made some foolish decisions based on complacency. That kind of poor decision making is far too common among experienced jumpers.

So, once again..."The most dangerous thing a skydiver can do is to forget that skydiving is dangerous."

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
S&TA
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and East

Tom, this one liner certainly welcome!

I think you've captured some very important and subtle points.

Complacency = Danger. It would be the same for a high-steel worker, a traffic cop, etc.

And unfortunately, the better we get the more we assume we can handle it, and perhaps get farther away from that overall respect one has initially that you are doing something that deserves your full attention and conservative judgment if you want to stick around -

Good one!

TOM

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[ZoneRat 0]

Ritual/ routine=safety.

Part of my routines that have helped me out.

1. I do a full check on my rig when I arrive at the DZ and set it down. Check the straps, pins, closing loop wear, cypress-on, webbing, etc... the whole shabang.
(I caught where I had misrouted the closing loop through the 3-ring release system once this way).

2. Pin check prior to donning the rig. Takes just a sec.

3. Taxi-Take off is my signal to chelk my alti.

4. Handle/ buckle checks on way to altitude. Touch the Rt. leg buckle, left. Cuttaway handle, Silver, Chest strap buckle, hackey, main closing cover.

I do this slowly, breathing deeply. I use this check as a physical mnemonic to center myself and relax, and do it at least a couple times to alt. More if I'm nervous. (Several times I've caught where my cuttaway pillow was folded beneath the harness).

5. When the door is opened, that's my signal to: close my visor, Check to see that's it's closed completely. Check my chin strap, check my jumpsuit zipper. (I've had friends that have launched with visors up. Lost helmets because they forgot or didn't tighten their chin-straps, or had their zipper down. etc)

6. On way to the door, I check my hackey and closing cover.

Implimenting good safety ritual can help you stay safe even if you're distracted, but is not a substitute for heads up skydiving.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[heftee 0]

Something that I've found myself thinking more about is the jewlery I wear (or now - not wear).
We've heard stories about people getting their rings caught on the bar by the door.
I've been told that the closing pin necklaces could get caught up in the three ring system.
These two have made me consider all my jewlery and just jump without it.

-------------------------
"If you've never jumped out of a plane, the best way I can describe it is it feels as if you've just jumped out of a freakin' plane."
David Whitley (Orlando Sentinel)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Betsy had a good point at the Holiday Boogie and she told me that if I wasn't going to take my closing pin necklace off, that I should tape it down to my body. I did that for one day, but haven't done it since. Ah shucks ... I'm jumping out of an airplane .. isn't that dangerous? I mean my friend Winnie told me "you worry too much" as she was right.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Betsy had a good point at the Holiday Boogie and she told me that if I wasn't going to take my closing pin necklace off, that I should tape it down to my body. I did that for one day, but haven't done it since.

i have one lovely HD dive where you can watch my closing pin slide around and touch BOTH 3rings in the same dive...sure i could get a shorter (choker) neckcord but its easier to just slip it in my gear bag and not have to worry about dying of that silly cause...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[The111 0]

Someone else was talking about not just blindly turning 180 to track. I have less than 200 jumps, so I don't know a lot, but I've been on LO'd 5-10 ways, with people more experienced than myself. When I turn to track the first thing I do (while already starting my track) is figure out where the others in my peripheral are headed. There have been countless times I've noticed a guy on my left or right headed right where I wanted to go. Don't know if it was my fault or his (I'm not able to say I for sure did a perfect 180), but it usually looks like he's not aware of it, especially since I'm usually a bit higher, so it's usually up to me to alter my heading to create more separation. I'm not trying to boast, but I was never trained to do this, it just makes sense. Awareness is the most important thing in a jump and being aware means looking where you're going at all times, and where everyone else is going.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com