spinning opening

[EricaH 0]

I jump a Spectre, have over 100 jumps on my new-to-me canopy & just purchased a new container.

My openings have always been lovely!! Well, for about 20 jumps I was tucking my nose in, but that seemed to caused end cell closure, so I stopped doing it & the end cell closure went away.

Last weekend I had an odd incident on which I hope you experienced people can advise me.

Saturday I had progressively worse right end-cell closure. On the last jump of the day the whole cell was collpased & put me in a slight turn. I jerked on the risers (which historically has corrected the issue instantly); that actually aggrivated the issue & threw me into a face down spin around the canopy. I grabbed the toggles & felt both of them release (so it wasn't a matter of one toggle out); pulled smoothly but rapidly down, let up, nothing. Gave 2 good just past chest deep pulls & teh canopy finally straightened out. Jeesh - almost had to chop. I was flying fine @ 2.1K'.

So, take it to the rigger, he checks - lines don't appear out of trim (less than 2 inches uneven) & nothing else has changed. He pulls hard on the outter lines to stretch them back a bit, it makes them more even.

Next day, 1st jump; open & this time it's almost the same thing issue but on the left side. However one huge yank on both rear risers corrects the issue. 2nd jump of the day it opens diving - again yanking on rears corrects.

On all 3 jumps I'm looking hard @ the canopy & nothing looks abnormal. The trim is pretty much right on - perhaps in another 50 - 100 jumps will need re-line, but not right now.


Any advice? Am I & my rigger cracked & less than 2 inches of unevenness is causing all this & I need to pull my head outta the sand & get a re-line (canopy has less than 400 jumps total). Or could there be something else?
It's totally outta the blue, so I don't think it's a sudden body position change, but can't tell.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[SarahC07 0]

I jump a spectre 150. It has less than 250 jumps on it. I have put about 50 or 60 on it.

I too have randomly weird openings that I'm trying to determine the cause. My canopy will not fully inflate on opening. In the past it looks and feels as if it is stalling. I've had this happen to me maybe 6-8 times.

This past weekend, my slidder was down and limp (like a towel hanging there) my canopy was shaking and tossing me around and then... it dove to the right and down. I tugged on my rear risers, which usually corrects the problem. No response. I released my toggles. It steadied me a bit, but did not give me a canopy I would be happy under. I then reached around and rugged on my front risers and finally I had a canopy I was willing to land.

This was the worst opening I have experienced in awhile and the only difference was my packer had packed it for me. But I trust his pack jobs. I asked him how he packed it and (since I was packer at the dz months ago) we pack as far as I could tell the same way.

Weird.

Edited to add: I've had a total of 3 people pack my main. I am the primary packer. The packer I mentioned in the explanation has packed it twice. And a third, who will remain anonymous because of the ridiculous number of line twists I received on his 4 minute packjob I learned my lesson. His explanation: 'body position'... I told him to 'bite me!' (you know who you are )

[EricaH 0]

That is weird, sucks when you really don't expect it. Spectres are known for great openings, which is one of the reasons I have one.

Another note to mine, I pack for myself. So all of these issues were on my pack jobs.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[Vallerina 2]

I'd take that piece of crap canopy back to the person you bought it from and smack 'em upside the head!

That is bizarre, though. It never opened extremely soft for me, but, as Farmer pointed out, that had to do with my pilot chute (which is not your problem.) Hmmm...

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Dumpster 0]

I've got about 300 jumps on a Spectre 150 - I'm loaded around 1.3 or so -

(Yeah, I've been jumping the same canopy since I came off student status-)

I've had the end-cell thing happen lots of times (and still do - ) and a quick tug on the risers cures it if they don't inflate themselves. I haven't had any line-twist issues that I didn't induce myself. (I experiment with packing technique once in a while-) Like Val, my Spectre doesn't usually take a long time to open unless I'm sub-terminal, then it takes it's sweet-ass time.

I found out dumping in a track makes it do funny things too -

My guess would be the line trim, or, (though I can't imagine what,) something with the new container? I was talking with T.J. Landgren about harness/containers back in June, and he was talking about how certain container/ harness systems transmit body input into the canopy better than others. I think it might be a stretch in this case, but ya never know.

Easy Does It

[EricaH 0]

hehe, it's funny - I bought this canopy FROM Val - that's why she made the comment. Once a smaller pilot chute was used, the canopy opened nice & smooth.

Just a thought - on my new container; the risers feel like they're coming up off my boobs, so the canopy is kinda pulled down on the sides - I have to open the chest strap like all those fancy swoopers (though I'm not swooping). I wonder if that curvature could be a cause?

Don't really have anyother options, cause if I don't tighten the chest strap to that point, the sholder comes kinda off the side whilst HD and THAT I don't like.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[Dumpster 0]

Quote

Just a thought - on my new container; the risers feel like they're coming up off my boobs, so the canopy is kinda pulled down on the sides - I have to open the chest strap like all those fancy swoopers (though I'm not swooping). I wonder if that curvature could be a cause?

Sounds like a possibility to me - Perhaps one side is getting pulled down more than the other during opening - I'd check with your rigger and perhaps your local canopy flight guru. Was this a brandy-new container or new-to-you? It may be possible to get it tailored a little closer to your dimensions by a rigger or the manufacturer.

Easy Does It

[flypunk 0]

ok I have been jumping spectres for the past about 700 jumps or so and other than your 2 inches which might be a contributing factor the only thing I could tell you is check your toggles for twist.

If you end cells are not open odds are you have slack on your lines and toggles might be twiting themselves and eventually will end with tension knots.

Add a tension knot to an allready 2" short toggle and that might be the reason for the turn.

Never had any problems with mine except for one that I was testing which was completely out of trim.

...

[EricaH 0]

Thanks for the ideas.

My break lines aren't twisted (I untwist them @ the end of every jumping day) - but they may get tension knots, not sure how to avoid those or what would cause them. I did check & the break lines are long enough to bow behind the other lines while in flight, so they're not too short.

The container is brandy-new
I know it sounds like I'm shooting every idea down, but I did check all this. My rigger & I are stumped.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[darkwing 4]

I have 600 jumps on a spectre 190, and a teammate has about 400 on a 170. Each is subject to occasional "rocking" openings, usually front to back, and fairly vigorous. It happened occasionally from the day they were new canopies, and persisted even after a complete relining. I got pretty comfortable handling those type of openings, I just quit caring about it. They weren't very common--maybe 1 in 20 jumps. Probably less often for my teammate.

I spoke with PD rep Vladi at Lost Prairie about this. He called it "bottom skin inflation" and said it can come from pulling the slider too far out in front, or rolling the tail too much. He might also have said it can happen if you stuff the nose, but I don't remember that clearly, as I never do anything to the nose anyway.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[DanglesOZQld 0]

There are sooo many variables involved. Most of the guys and girls here working full time jump crossfires.....beautiful slow openings on heading and plenty of flare.... I jump a BT series Pro 120 - An old "Blue Smack" as a lot of ppl call it. NEVER had a really bad opening on it and actually do the four cells into the centre cell and roll the tail to suit the sniveling. I can get 1,000 feet out of it on opening
no probs ;) Hope you sort your problem out. Note though that sometimes you will get a kick in the butt or something strange on opening every now and then no matter what you do. BSBD -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[beezyshaw 0]

>So, take it to the rigger, he checks - lines don't appear out of trim (less than 2 inches uneven) & nothing else has changed. He pulls hard on the outter lines to stretch them back a bit, it makes them more even.

I'd really like to see someone put a canopy with spectra lines back in trim by pulling on them! Really, I've been in canopy manufacturing for many years and that's just not going to happen. At 400 jumps, what is most out of trim are your lower control lines, as I've seen shrinkage of up to an inch per 100 jumps. Compare the length of them to PD's specs and you'll probably be surprised at how short they are. It would only cost a small fraction of a reline to install those two lines and it just might make a big difference in your openings.

[Jumpmunki 0]

check that your line stows arn't corkscrewed, ask a rigger to show you what i mean ... this can induce or even be a twist in the line stows..

[crewkeith 0]

maybe perhaps the upper lines have shrunk, and the lower lines were made longer to compensate?? too deep of a brake setting on opening?? opening in a stall?? just a guess.




.

The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[EricaH 0]

The lines are straight...

thanks for your input everyone - I'm guessing the lines are too deep in breaks on opening and they're still slightly in breaks once in "full flight" - there's a crease all the way accross the tail.

So, can I get the break lines replaced & if that don't fix it - later the rest-o them?

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[pilotdave 0]

Might not even need em replaced... might be able to just get the toggles moved down, which lengthens the brake lines. Only takes a few minutes and probably won't cost anything.

Dave

[EricaH 0]

Cool - hadn't even heard that option. will have to bring it up.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[beezyshaw 0]

Moving the toggles lower will NOT change the setting of the deployment brakes. It will only put more slack in the control lines AFTER the brakes have been released. Think about it; you would only have a longer length of line that goes from brake loops to toggles. The shrinkage of the control lines makes the canopy open with a deeper brake setting, which does change the opening characteristics, so these would HAVE to be changed to have any effect during deployment.

[pilotdave 0]

Whoopsie....yep, I wasn't thinking of deployment (which was the whole point). She mentioned the tail is being pulled down a little in full flight, which could be fixed by moving the toggles... At least my suggestion was free even if it was wrong!

Dave

[skydiverton 0]

Line-Trim
Packing
Body-position

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[EricaH 0]

K, so I need to have the actual steering lines lengthened - above the hole the toggle pokes through.
My new container has articulated hip & chest rings. Another friend suggested that perhaps my hips are out of alignment & that could be feeding input on deployment causing the turn.... gotta check that out. My last rig was a bit big on me & so the hip placement input prob wasn't so pronounced.

Then I prob fairly soon need to get a reline.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[upndownshop 0]

I've got over 900 jumps on a Spectre and I stopped packing 20 years ago, so these last 900 were packed by different packers across the country.
The rocking forwards and backwards once the slider is down is probably from still moving forward while dumping. When it started doing it to me it made me a little nervous, I made sure I stoped moving before I dumped and the problem went away, now I dump in a track just for fun.

If I am not mistaken 2" is a little too much, I think PD allows 1.5????

Make sure your leg straps are even. Also try to relax during opening and let it do what it is designed to do. I am not saying that you are not, but just be aware. I think that most people will agree that most malfunctions are due to body position, at least with well maintained gear.
Also this shouldn't be an issue with the number of jumps on it but check your slider stops.

Chris what the hell do you know???/ Brazilian boy!!!

www.skyfestboogie.com

[tbrown 26]

My openings have always been lovely!! Well, for about 20 jumps I was tucking my nose in, but that seemed to caused end cell closure, so I stopped doing it & the end cell closure went away.

[EricaH 0]

Thanks, I know I should have slace - that's why I'm getting them fixed.
I tucked in the nose cause my rigger suggested trying it - I stopped that over 100 jumps ago.

Jerry, the rocking starts when the slider starts it descent & slows once the slider is down. From about 2 ft before the risers to the top o them is when I notice the end cell closure; since that's when the rest of the canopy is fully inflated.


My biggest issue comes in that this is a SUDDEN change. Either after 320 jumps my muscle memory has suddenly gone away & I'm messing up openings w/ body position (though I really don't know how body position could cause end cell closure) or something has happened w/ the canopy/container.

I'm begenning to think it's a combo of very out-o-trim lines & my first articulated harness. Also, since this harness FITS ME the 3 rings are closer together than the were on my old/not made for me rig that was too big & more loose.
I haven't figured out a quick way to loosen the tension on the chest strap quickly enough & feel that perhaps the outter lines are being pulled shorter. But if I have the chest strap any looser, when HD the shoulder slides off my shoulder and THAT is a scary feeling.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)