Should there be underage skydiving?

[pacncathyjr 0]

I understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump.

[achowe 0]

I don’t think children have the experience of life to be able to decide if they want to introduce risks to it or not.

They don't know what theyre goin to feel later in life or what they're going to want to do. So I would have to say no.

I believe its about mental maturity as well as physical.

Just my opinion.

-------------------------------------------------
Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!

[ChrisL 2]

Quote

I don’t think children have the experience of life to be able to decide if they want to introduce risks to it or not.

I know some 40 year olds that are no wiser than my shoe
and some 16 year olds that are wise far beyond their years.

__

My mighty steed

[achowe 0]

Yes, I agree, but they still do not have life experience. That is the difference. It's not about knowledge either. Knowledge and understanding the short and long term consequences of what you are doing are too different things IMHO.

-------------------------------------------------
Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!

[BillyVance 34]

I wouldn't let my kid, if I had any, jump until age 18...

However, kids who have grown up on the DZ with skydiving parents, are likely to have a better understanding of what's involved when they go make their first jump. Don't expect to be able to sneak under the radar at any USPA Member DZ though. Places like Mullin's DZ, it's possible. Then again, all of Mullin's kids started jumping pretty much by the time they were 10 or so... so I voted, depends on the kid...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[FrenchyDiver 0]

Quote

so I voted, depends on the kid...

Ditto

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[pacncathyjr 0]

I agree with that. But if you compare the majority of skydiver children to the majority of woofo children. I think you would find that the skydiver children have a little more maturity (mentaly speaking) then a woofo child.

[achowe 0]

or less, depending upon if the kids spend all their free time running around DZ's playing in the dirt and eating ice cream like some of the kids ive seen at some DZ's. missing links or what..

but i see what your saying, yeah

-------------------------------------------------
Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!

[pacncathyjr 0]

As for the life experince. I can't exactly say any thing on that because I'm 14 and I have gone scubadiving in the Caman Islands,skiing, surfing, knee boarding, skate boarding, and (snow)

[achowe 0]

i think you misunderstand me. By life expereince i dont mean activities like that.

I know when I was 14 I used to think I knew what I wanted and that nothing would shock me. I was wrong. things change.
surely someone can see what im saying?

-------------------------------------------------
Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!

[pacncathyjr 0]

oh sorry

[IanHarrop 37]

Quote

I understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.

This is not directed at the young lady who started this thread but at anyone who can answer the question with authority.

As a parent I sign waivers for my child all the time.
- The school wants one at the beginning of every year
- I have to sign one every school field trip
- I have to sign one for school sports
- My son is an avid skier and I have to sign one when I buy his annual ski pass.

All of these waivers supposedly absolve the school, the ski hill, the teachers, or instructors from responsibility if my child gets hurt.

I would like someone to explain to me the difference between me signing away his rights so he can go to school or enjoy sports, and the waiver for skydiving.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I don’t think children have the experience of life to be able to decide if they want to introduce risks to it or not.

See your point, but at the same time i know a lot of 18/21 year-olds who don't either (though they think they do). Age ends up being an arbitrary factor helping us decide.

By the way, at what age can people join the military? Before they are old enough to drink legally in some states, or to skydive, they can shoot people and be shot at? (Not trying to start a speakers corner type thread... just looking for some perspective)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[BenHall 0]

Quote

Before they are old enough to drink legally in some states, or to skydive, they can shoot people and be shot at?

Amen brother! And I'm pretty sure it's 17

[Orange1 0]

Quote

[Amen brother!

er, that's sister.
In SA you can skydive from 16, with parental consent under 21.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[TrickyDicky 0]

In the UK, you can start skydiving at 16 (and join the military I think) with parental consent. Im sure its lower in some countries. I know that in spain, anyone can do a tandem aslong as they fit in the harness. I saw 3 kids, cant have been more than 10 years old do tandems when I was in empuria. one fainted when he got down and the other 2 really didnt look too fussed.

But I think generally skydiving kids have good respect for the dz. There a 5y/o daughter of one guy at our DZ and she does run about and play as you'd expect a 5y/o, but shes always known not to go onto the landing area, play with the kit/microlights in the hangar or bug people when they ask her not to or when they've got their kit on.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[RhondaLea 3]

Quote

I understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump.

It's not that it isn't allowed. There are some dropzones where younger people have been allowed to jump, as well as some tandem masters who took their young children jumping. (I also know parents who have allowed their children to BASE jump.) There are no current laws that specifically prevent a child from making a skydive (although most of the tandems w/children that I know of actually were a violation of law at the time.)

The issue is legal liability. If a child can't enter into a contract and a parent cannot sign away the child's rights, it leaves the dropzone--and everyone even remotely associated with the dropzone and the jump, including the parents (children can sue their parents, you know)--totally on the hook for liability. Worse yet, it leaves the door open for the responsible child welfare agency to come in and say to the parents, "You are a bad parent, and we're taking your kid away."

Tell your mom I said "hi" and be patient. The next five years will go more quickly than you think.

rl

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

What does your mom think about it?



Jimmy Trantor's family owned a dz and he started jumping at 14 if I recall.

_________________________________________

[BenHall 0]

Quote

Quote

[Amen brother!

er, that's sister.
In SA you can skydive from 16, with parental consent under 21.

Sorry Sis! Yeah I can understand why the drinking age is where it's at, but active duty should get exception I think. As for kids jumping, I think 16 is a much more logical age. While there is no magic date when someone all of a sudden becomes responsible, if you're allowed to drive a car (infinitely more dangerous), then why not jump?

[outlawphx 1]

I made my first jump (a tandem) when I was 15. It was a long 3 months that I had to wait before turning 16 to start my first jump course... Lots of hanging out at the DZ wishing I could jump

[tombuch 0]

Quote

Quote

All of these waivers supposedly absolve the school, the ski hill, the teachers, or instructors from responsibility if my child gets hurt.

I would like someone to explain to me the difference between me signing away his rights so he can go to school or enjoy sports, and the waiver for skydiving.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can think of a few differences.

My sense is that in today's climate of litigation the waiver of liability you sign for those other activities has just as little value as a skydiving waiver. The difference, I suppose, is that those other activities have used waivers for a long period of time, and 'back in the day, those waivers were given more value by the courts. Skydiving never got on that bandwagon, and now, as the courts restrict the ability of an adult to sign away rights of a child, skydiving is in the vanguard.

One of the other differences is that many of those businesses/activities have insurance with liability coverage to protect them if a minor is injured and the waiver/release is not recognized in court. Skydiving businesses generally do not have liability insurance, and on that basis must decide what level of risk and exposure they are willing to accept. Ski areas, by the way, are sometimes protected by state law that limits liability, and the statement you sign, or read on the back of your ticket, is an added layer of protection, not primary.

I work at a ski resort, and we have been reevaluating the entire waiver/release of liability process. Management now recognizes that a release signed by a parent may not have value in court, so we are looking for other ways of defining intent, and we are involving minors in the process. It isn't perfect, but it helps.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

• Quote

[Reginald 0]

Quote

I understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump.

It’s not a matter of understanding the risks; it’s a matter of being able to sign away one’s rights. By definition, a minor can not enter into a contract and so can not legally sign away their rights.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[pilotdave 0]

You can solo a sailplane at 14 in the US. I don't see why (aside from legal reasons) that 14 year old shouldn't be allowed to try a tandem skydive. But it's not about what makes sense, it's just about dropzones and manufacturers protecting themselves from lawsuits. As far as USPA rules go though, I believe 16 is higher than it really needs to be, but I also think 14 year olds can deal with waiting 2 years and could be better off. I started learning to fly at 11 though. More seriously at about 13, and soloed at 16. Flying is much less of a shock to the brain than skydiving so in some ways its easier, but it's a far more complex task.

Dave

[pacncathyjr 0]

My mom was all for it until my Grandparents found out and chewed her out about it.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump.

The problem is that overall, high school students have proven to have a poor understanding that their actions might kill them. Few have had the experience of bad results to give them pause, and I don't think many can appreciate that in some activities you can get hurt even if you do everything right. 18 is an arbitrary point, but a well placed one.

But is it odd that skydiving does this, while other risky sports do not? Yeah. PADI will now train 8yos. I personally wouldn't think of anything under 12, and frankly would likely hold you out till 16 because of the potential health concerns (PFO especially) and maturity as a member of a team in the water.