Jump numbers vs. time in sport

[lummy 4]

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Let's go for the simpler explanation.
Either they forgot to set their altimeters to local field elevation, or they reset them by referring to the pilot's altitmeter.

this may be a different incident but didn't the 4way jump at two different DZ's that day?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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10 years probably wins...more over all experience, and likely a greater variety of jumps. While it's possible they just toiled at a 182 DZ, boredom tends to win before 1000.

Someone that does 1000 in 2 w/o specializing, you wonder if they're just cranking out the jumps, diminishing returns kicking in. And if they did specialize (ie, 4way), then their experience is less broad.

That is exactly it. The person who toils away for ten years is certainly going to see more and learn more. This, of course, assuming the guy who has been around ten years has played an active part in the sport and has done some instructing. I know plenty of people these days who make over 1000 jumps per year, but can't think of many people who have kept that pace in years past who still jump. Burnout factor is very high in people that jump that often and do one kind of jump over and over and over.

Chuck

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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theres a post for you. KNOWLEDGE VS EXPERIENCE?

It takes both, salted with attitude, to develop JUDGMENT.

The issue is not experience or knowledge or any one attribute, individually, but the way they all combine to hone one's ability to evaluate and act on the various situations one encounters.

I don't care how many jumps you have or how much you have studied, if you can't put it all together in a way that keeps you and those around you intact and breathing, everything you know and do is worthless.

rl

That's a really good post as well.

[HydroGuy 0]

I think this would be have to be a case by case basis.

Does the high time/low number jumper just hit sunset loads and go home, or was he still a regular at the DZ who just didn't jump a lot?

Does the high time/low number jumper go to Safety Day or periodically climb into a harness and practice EP's? Or have they been jumping long enough that practicing ep's is a waste of time to them?

In scuba, some of the most dangerous divers I've met were people who have dove a while, but only on vacations...meaning little regularity. In scuba it is worse, because peoples health and physical well being deteriorate faster than they'd like to believe...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think this would be have to be a case by case basis.

That's always going to be true, but if you want to play the averages....time usually wins over intensity, in any of the high risk sports. You can't speed up the learning curve of experience, esp in this sport where gear and practices are still evolving very rapidly.

Also compare 10 years of accident reports (or being physically present for some) versus 2 - lot more time to reflect on best practices.

I've seen the resort divers - they really are an example of people repeating one week of diving (and not very good diving) annually for X years. Fortunately you virtually never have to make a quick decision to save yourself - those who die often had enough time to literally dig their grave with the bad choices they made.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I will play the diving analogy too if you like. I attended the Special Forces Combat Dive Qualification course in 1986 and got paid to dive for the great majority of my career. I also attended and graduated the Combat Dive Supervisor Course and ran many very technical dives. That said, my team only dived once a month (for pay) when it was required to do it like that, and then only six dives every six months when they allowed us to schedule trips like that in an effort to stop pay losses. It was very rare for us to make more than about 15 dives per year. Not what active "sport" divers would call a bunch, but how many sport divers do you know that have done submarine lockouts? I have run over 50 trunk evolutions from the forward escape hatch on three different SSN's. How many do you know that have done body recoveries in the Chagris River in Panama? Ultimately, while I do not possess a great number of logged dives, I have a shit-load of experience in both open circuit SCUBA and closed circuit UBA (Drager LAR V) in a wide variety of water conditions ranging from nearly unlimited vis open water to pitch black murk. In all that time I never once purchased my own sport gear; does that mean I am not experienced?

Just like the skydiving analogy it's what the person has done in the amount of time he has been a participant in an activity that matters.

I know two guys on the local 8-way team who are under 21 years old and both have over 2000 skydives. One of them does 8-way very well and one of them does video very well. Neither land their canopies worth a shit.

Chuck

[AggieDave 6]

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Neither land their canopies worth a shit.

Then do some coaching and help them. Even if its beer light advice given (not just "man yall suck and are dangerous").






Ok, why did I post this thread?


This thread was posted in response to some of the extremes I see in skydiving. At a boogie just recently away from my home DZ I watched someone who had been in the sport for 15-20 years (but had 150 jumps in all of those year) get really pissed off huffing and puffing due to a couple of bad spots "from the pilot." It got me thinking basically that even though he's been around the block and probably has seen quite a bit on DZs over the years, he really doesn't have any experience what so ever. Thinking back to other experiences I had with this guy skydiving over the past 5 years and I remembered other times in which proved what I thought.

So I started asking people after the beer light what they thought, jump numbers vs. experience (not talking about this specific person, just in general).

At that point I wanted to see what a small internet sampling would come up with.



So in summary from this thread, the extremes are bad and don't really lead anywhere, but a combination of jump numbers plus time in sport will give experience.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Designer 0]

Hard to say Dave?1000 is relative to the type of person.I think I did my first 800 in 3 or 4 years,then slacked off while I went to college.Funny you should mention time in sport.Next month 8/8 is my 30 yr anniversary.Of course it's a tues.,so party and (hopefully Sunset load)won't happen until after working(packing) and VPC meet(8/13).Yes,I'm bringing some kind of good beer.Think this calls for Hinnies?