Skydivers who don't deserve respect.

[RhondaLea 3]

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I'm used to people who call others negative when they themselves are the ones who should be a having a little look in the mirror.

If that's your logic (i.e., all criticism is projection) perhaps everyone needs to keep their rig where you can't get to it. After all, you're the one who made the rig-tampering allegations, right?

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Loopy ...aint it?

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I find YOUR replies to be apologetic & a bit more than pointless actually.

I'll bear that in mind.

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As for the tasks you assign to me eg"Then I think you need to go through the fatality database, and show exactly where and how the kind of people you're talking about affected the outcome."

....mmm... I just might do that.
Negative? Why ? For showing up negative behaviour.?

You haven't "shown up" anything. If you can't provide proof, your claim fails at the outset. I have seen no proof provided of any of the weird claims you make.

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I feel by doing this I can drag some of it into the light of day where it will fizzle and disappear in a vampiric puff of smoke.

Any-one who takes on the 'baddies' does run the risk of being tarred wit' da same brush.

Ya think?

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Cheers for the more considered and mature replies

I personally know of a whole string of incidents and fatalities that I feel can be directly connected with 'boozy bozo' behaviour.

If you are not aware how this can happen then you have justified (to me ) why I've even bothered trying to SHARE.

Being aware that such things are possible may just help keep you from out of such harms way.

As we previously discussed, there are sociopaths and narcissists in the world, along with others of ill-intent, but one cannot spend ones life always monitoring the behavior of others. The only person you can change or control is yourself. The people who are determined to change and control others are those who lack self-control. Oddly enough, they generally have sociopathic or narcissistic traits. They take no blame themselves, but they are quick to point their fingers at everyone else.

It's very simple: in all aspects of your life, don't associate with those who make you feel nervous or uncomfortable or unsafe.

All this discussion about such people is a waste of time, and it borders on the paranoid.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[HydroGuy 0]

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Perhaps I am an Idealist but I believe that everyone deservers respect no matter what type of person they are. But your right some more then others, I know I am not perfect but I try and respect everyone that I know and meet because there is always something you can learn from people even if its what not to do.

This Toltec-like philosophy is definately the best approach to dealing with the world.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[EvilLurker 2]

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It's very simple: in all aspects of your life, don't associate with those who make you feel nervous or uncomfortable or unsafe.

That's well and good, until one of these type people is assigned a position of responsibility at a DZ, and you're a new jumper there.

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The people who are determined to change and control others are those who lack self-control. Oddly enough, they generally have sociopathic or narcissistic traits.

It does take some long-term exposure to these types to make that determination, though. I think Trae's point was we need to keep them out of positions of responsibility. How that can be done, I have no opinion. I've seen the effect, though. Thankfully, noone was injured in that case.

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I think you need to go through the fatality database, and show exactly where and how the kind of people you're talking about affected the outcome.

I don't think that's something you would find in the fatality database, in many cases. I'd say a lot of them could be attributed to "incorrect/incomplete" instruction, if one wanted to go there. Low pull/no pull, for example. The fatality database is packed with low-time jumpers.. What else would explain that?

[JohnRich 4]

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I believe that everyone deservers respect no matter what type of person they are. But your right some more then others.

This Toltec-like philosophy is definately the best approach to dealing with the world.

Um, well I would say they deserve respect until they prove otherwise. And some people do that. And if they keep proving they don't deserve respect, then I'm not going to give it to 'em, just because it's a nice philosophy. (As I sit here listening to serial killer Dennis Rader being sentenced by the court - now there is someone who deserves zero respect...)

[JohnRich 4]

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-Woosy ‘grandfather of the sport’ types .
These can allow the bad behaviour of others to fester and grow under their weak leadership. Respect your elders? OK if they deserve it... otherwise they need putting out to pasture or reminding that they can’t simply rest on their laurels ...not when they aren’t doing their job...and people are being hurt as a result.

Caveat: young folks often don't care about the opinions of their elders - they're not cool, or they're too old-fashioned, or whatever. And if the newbies ignore good advice and get hurt anyway, that's not the fault of the elders.

[EvilLurker 2]

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And if the newbies ignore good advice and get hurt anyway, that's not the fault of the elders.

How about if they follow bad advice and do get hurt? Never seen that in this sport? Or if you ignore bad advice and don't get hurt? Is that being "disrespectful"?
I bought a Triathlon 160 after being given advice to get a 135 (at jump #125, 180 lbs. out the door). Did I save myself from being hurt by ignoring the "good advice of my elders"? I always thought so.

[RhondaLea 3]

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I think Trae's point was we need to keep them out of positions of responsibility.

That's your take, but it's not what he wrote.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[bozo 0]

No offence meant 'Bozo' (Was that you picked me up off the ground that time?)

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Might been :o)

By the way. If you go regulating all the coloful nutcases out of our sport......it wont be skydiving any longer.
There will still be parachutes and airplanes......but no skydiving.....as it was.
Be careful, competent and watch your six. Its always worked for me.

bozo

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[JoeT 0]

Get some help. http://www.find-a-therapist.com/

Or am I just a small minded fool?

[mattjw916 2]

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-Alcoholics and other substance abuse addicts.
-Incompetents in positions of power & influence.
-Bullies who don’t allow people to progress past their own limited level of ability.
-Woosy ‘grandfather of the sport’ types.
-Big headed safety officers who don’t do their job due to their swelled heads.
-Newbies that are highly skilled.

Um, so who's left? You just described 99% of the community. So being proficient somehow is a bad thing in your eyes? I guess that makes you one of the bullies then since you are put off by the freefly/swoop crowd and want to hold them back.

Some of us just jump for fun you know and couldn't care less about the pedantic ramblings of yet another "old schooler" hell-bent on poo-pooing the latest generation. Come down off your cross, we need the wood for the bonfire bro.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[HydroGuy 0]

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-Alcoholics and other substance abuse addicts.
-Incompetents in positions of power & influence.
-Bullies who don’t allow people to progress past their own limited level of ability.
-Woosy ‘grandfather of the sport’ types.
-Big headed safety officers who don’t do their job due to their swelled heads.
-Newbies that are highly skilled.

Um, so who's left? You just described 99% of the community.

Skydiving is obviously most attractive the Type A personalities and Alpha Males/Females. With them often come many of the traits you have explained.

If someone wasn't bullheaded, stubborn, massively independent, overly confident or something along those lines, they would listen to all the whuffos and not be skydiving in the first place.

Not saying it's right or a good thing for safety, but it is to be expected.

As I look at your list though, I could see those dynamics coming into play with ANY group of people...including a seniors gardening club.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[Trae 1]

You know what they say about assuming things don't you?????


This thread is an attempt at showing up what I consider to be undesirable traits that exist in some parts of our sport .

As a discussion the considered answers have been informative in an intelligent and mature fashion.

The reactionary replies from what appear to be less level headed and naive viewers have been informative as well.

Thanks to all ....and believe it not

I CARE for YOU ALL

some of you just don't have my respect.

laterestin'

[RhondaLea 3]

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some of you just don't have my respect

Some of us don't care.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[bozo 0]

[

I CARE for YOU ALL

some of you just don't have my respect.

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well fuck........there goes my week. :0(

bozimbo

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[JoeT 0]

What you do make, about 20 jumps a year now based on your jump numbers and years in the sport? You're probably as dangerous as anyone on the DZ. Why don't you go get a set of golf clubs you loser.

[Trae 1]

in reply to JoeT What you do make, about 20 jumps a year now based on your jump numbers and years in the sport? You're probably as dangerous as anyone on the DZ. Why don't you go get a set of golf clubs you loser. "



'oohh don't you just love it when you get a REAL bite........'

I've had a multi varied life....I had 1000 jumps when I was 21 years old (DUR) and kinda felt like doin' a few other things for a while . In the meantime I kept up with things you might not've even thought about doing.

any more little nasties out there?????? your provin my point for me.


I love this sport


Be good or be Good at it.

[EvilLurker 2]

Yeah, especially when it was 2200 in 15 years vs. 2860 in 24 years. I thought that was slicing it a little thin.

[Trae 1]

I left out the type that thinks Skydivings the only place in the world worth inhabiting.

Or did we already cover that.?

[JoeT 0]

Hey, I make my 20 to 30 jumps a year, but I didn't start this topic. I'm not the one pontificating. I like the people at my DZ, even the crazy ones (does anyone really fling themeselves out of an airplane on a regular basis without having a few issues?) Look out for yourself and if you see someone screwing up or putting you in danger, say something to them. If they don't listen, say something to someone with authority. If they don't listen, get on a different load. Don't go bashing everyone in the sport. Blue Skies!

[Trae 1]

in reply to JoeT's "Hey, I make my 20 to 30 jumps a year, but I didn't start this topic. I'm not the one pontificating. I like the people at my DZ, even the crazy ones (does anyone really fling themeselves out of an airplane on a regular basis without having a few issues?) Look out for yourself and if you see someone screwing up or putting you in danger, say something to them. If they don't listen, say something to someone with authority. If they don't listen, get on a different load. Don't go bashing everyone in the sport. Blue Skies!"

G'day JoeT ,

Sorry you think I'm pontificating. the priesthood doesn't want people like me...too truthful.

This IS a tricky subject and one I just couldn't in all decency leave alone. Why let them get away with it?
Just cause they're skydivers?
Such 'star in the eye' blindness don't work on me any more.

Your more considered and truthful sharing sounds better than telling people to take up golf ...(I suck at golf.)

It takes all types I suppose... some just shouldn't be in charge. (in my opinion)

Old tricks ...new players.

Any more low shots ...I'll get to yous after the weekend...I'm off a varmintin'(feral eradication)
Have funor it'll have U

[peckerhead 0]

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Play the ball not the person dude.

Any chip I have on my shoulder is being brushed off right now

laterer

I have been in this sport most of my natural life. I consider skydivers to be my family. Dysfunctional at times but still family.
Like all families we have our problems and we don't always like each other but we still have respect because of our common bond.

Now that does not mean I have not lost respect for skydivers I have known. But the reasons for that loss of respect had nothing to do with skydiving.

If you don't like the way things are then DO something! It is too easy to sit behind a keyboard and cry. Way too easy dude!

I am playing you because you have no ball.

[bct110 0]

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This thread is an attempt at showing up what I consider to be undesirable traits that exist in some parts of our sport .

And those traits show up in pretty much EVERY part of society... especially in the places where type A personalities tend to congregate (business management, military, sports).

My big question to you is "what is your point?" What do you hope to accomplish? What should we do about it? Otherwise it is just a "sky is falling" rant or a whine. I don't know you, so I'll reserve from making assumptions as to why you wrote this.

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some of you just don't have my respect.

ALL people have respect until they do something to lose it.

There are good and bad people everywhere and it is part of life to figure that out. People have good and bad attributes... but they are taken as a whole...

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I bought a Triathlon 160 after being given advice to get a 135 (at jump #125, 180 lbs. out the door). Did I save myself from being hurt by ignoring the "good advice of my elders"? I always thought so.

How elder were your elders? I've got about 30 years jumping. My advice is very conservative. I'm still alive.

[EvilLurker 2]

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How elder were your elders?

The DZO and 2 JMs. They had been in the sport a long time. In years, not so much older. I took up the sport late.

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I'm still alive.

Me too.

[mjosparky 3]

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What you do make, about 20 jumps a year now based on your jump numbers and years in the sport? You're probably as dangerous as anyone on the DZ. Why don't you go get a set of golf clubs you loser.

You average 146 a year and Trae 120. What's your point? Looks like you are only 26 jumps a year from being a loser and playing golf.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals