Vectracide 0 #51 October 20, 2005 You might want to take a step back for a second and realize that I didn't have anything removed. All I did was make a poll as I wanted to know the DZ.Com demographic for desiring to see death of others in our sport. Secondly, if you are going to compare a seatbelt safety video to the skydiving snuff video, I am wasting my time with a person that obviously cannot acertain the innate difference betweent the two. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #52 October 20, 2005 Quotejust exactly what do you think a skydiver will learn from watching that kind of thing? Some people seem to think that accidents will not happen to them. You see it all the time after a fatality. People are in shock and someone will never be able to get it out of their head. Some quit, others get therapy. While I would not want to see video....I have images in my head I can't remove, why add more? I can see how a bounce video shown to a reckless idiot might knock him down a notch. I would not want these videos to be just floating around, or on "faces of death"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #53 October 20, 2005 QuoteYou seem to be declaring yourself an authority on ethics. Quote Hardly. But nice try to stretch the truth for your benefit. What I typed was MY opinion/ethics. If I was making myself an authority, I would have not made a poll. Check yourself. Granted: If the family of a deceased jumper does not want the video to be seen, it should not. Granted: If you yourself do not want to see it, you should not.Quote We agree on that. What makes you think you can use words such as "I was very surprised to see how many thought that it was a defendable action." ? I mean "Defendable" against what? You mean Defendable against your attack,.. your belief that it is wrong vs. their belief that it is not.Quote It means exaclty what it says. Again, these are MY thoughts. I'm not making them yours, or forcing them upon you in any way. My poll was hardly an attack, it was my response. It may be morbid, but it is not illegal. It may be dark, but it is not up to you to decide it "totally wrong". BTW, there is an awful lot of things on the internet that are not educational. Quote I haven't decided what is wrong for anyone else than myself. I really dont understand where you are getting this information from. I will decide what I believe is wrong. Its sad that you have to use the "pun intended" for your satire humor. This was someone's kid. If it wasn't a child, it was a fellow skydivers buddie. Huge lack of respect here, in my opinion. QuoteI noticed there was no option in your poll for someone who votes "Yes, even if it is not educational". LOL, don't get me wrong, I am not a ghoul, but I chime in now as I see someone declaring that this is wrong... when in fact it is not. *sigh* Whatever dude, you live in your world, I will live in mine. I did not declare this wrong for the masses, I declared it wrong and unethical for myself. All I wanted to see is how many of you DZ.Commers wanted to see this kind of shit. I am truely saddended to see how many of you want to see another person bounce. I have been to a many dropzone, and I have come to realize, unargueably, that DZ.Com demographics does not reflect an actual dropzones demographics. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #54 October 20, 2005 Hi Ron, I fully agree to your post. Well said. As I really do not want to see ALL in my life, I second it. Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #55 October 20, 2005 QuoteSo some people are sick fucks big deal, my problem is when my mother and dear ones see these things, imagine, my mother won't go to the DZ (when I'm home in Bolivia) to see me, because she worries too much and it's not a pleasant experience for her. At family reunions they only talk about how they saw so and so die on TV and my mother dies inside and I FEEL that and pisses me off. Ever thought you could die? No one that bounced thought they were gonna die, but they still did. Its your Moms right not to watch or support your habit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Luv2Fall 0 #56 October 20, 2005 Nice post........puts things into proper perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #57 October 20, 2005 Have you ever seen someone bounce? and How many friends have you lost to skydiving accidents? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #58 October 21, 2005 I typed a whole bunch of stuff but thought better of it. Thanks...Glad my nonsense made sense to someone MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vectracide 0 #59 October 21, 2005 Quote Have you ever seen someone bounce? and How many friends have you lost to skydiving accidents? rl No I have fortunately not seen anyone burn in. I hope I never will. If I say 1, will that not be enough? Or if I say 10, does that somehow validate my feelings on the matter? The 10th one you have seen, will more than likely shock you as much the first. Just a speculation though. I have had friends die, but the # is moot. Edited for clarity. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UDSkyJunkie 0 #60 October 21, 2005 QuoteI am truely saddended to see how many of you want to see another person bounce. "Want to"??? hell no! and I think I speak for nearly everyone in this thread (with a couple notable exceptions) there. when i see a bounce video, I'm not interested in the bounce... just the sequence of events and mistakes leading up to it. Also, "snuff video"? That really depends on how you look at it. In the case of UntamedDog, who wants the "thrill" of seeing someone die, yeah it's a snuff video. someone could get off just as easily on that seat belt video. Maybe more, it's a hell of a lot more graphic. Others see both as educational, as training, as evidence for the use of AAD's, ect. Your opinions are your own, and I won't try to change them. However, as said about a million times on this thread, it's a part of the sport; stay in it long enough, you'll see it first-hand. I've been lucky enough to get through 24 years without seeing one for real yet and hope to keep it that way, but I still remember the first skydiving fatality of someone I knew... I was 5 years old. My mind was spinning for days. If watching fatality videos teaches even one person enough to save their life, it's worth it."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grasshopper 0 #61 October 21, 2005 hell no, I don't want to see video of anyone "burning in". that being said, there are 2 disclaimers: 1. if it is someone I know, I would rather see it, than be told about it. I have witnessed a friend dying, and other people who saw the same thing had a different opinion as to what happened. I realized that point of view is different from fact, and it is usually difficult to determine fact. and 2, I think some people need to see someone "burn in", to realize how serious skydiving can be. it seems a lot of newer jumpers don't realize a error can result in death, since this sport tends to be relatively forgiving of stupid mistakes/________________________________________________________ Abbie drove me to Idaho and all I got was this lousy sigline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #62 October 21, 2005 QuoteSecondly, if you are going to compare a seatbelt safety video to the skydiving snuff video, I am wasting my time with a person that obviously cannot acertain the innate difference between the two. So, "waste your time" with me - explain the difference to me - if you can. Video 1 - person dies skydiving, don't see impact, don't see blood, no real "proof" person dies Video 2 - 3 people die in car accident, see impact - not only of car impacting car but of seatbeltless person hitting 3 individuals, blood displayed, proof utilized is people in body bags and firefighter stating "3 dead" Or maybe the truth is that as long as something fits your preconceived notions about morality and what's viewable and not, it's ok but if it doesn't, then holy hell - it's way wrong.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #63 October 21, 2005 QuoteQuote Have you ever seen someone bounce? and How many friends have you lost to skydiving accidents? rl No I have fortunately not seen anyone burn in. I hope I never will. If I say 1, will that not be enough? Or if I say 10, does that somehow validate my feelings on the matter? I have, but the # is moot. The 10th one you have seen, will more than likely shock you as much the first. Just a speculation though. I wonder if you know deep down inside you that it can happen to you as easily as it can happen to anyone. I think that carnage video serves a very important purpose in educating skydivers about their own mortality. Having seen carnage up close and personal, I don't feel any need to see such video (although I've seen some), and while I don't know if it should be part of the first jump course, I do think that sometime before a skydiver gets off student status, s/he should be acquainted with the harsh realities of this sport. I've run into too many people who have the idea that it can't happen to them--that dead people get that way because they're stupid. But that's not usually the case. Anyone can make a mistake, and when someone does, survival is often just a matter of dumb luck. This really isn't an ethical issue, you know, but more of a practical one. In the good old days, death was up close and personal for everyone. People died at home, sometimes from old age, but more often from disease and accidents. And the entire family participated in the death process. Nowadays, we have managed to distance ourselves from death. Even what we see on the news is sanitized, and what we see in movies...well, no matter how realistic it appears, we know it's just acting. The wrongness of this is brought home to us by the popularity of such sites as rotten and ogrish. We are fascinated by death, because it comes to us all, and no one knows what lies beyond. And yet, we now have a generation to whom death is almost unreal instead of merely a fact of life. If it takes watching the death of another skydiver to bring home that death is very real and that the reaper ever waits, then I'm all for it. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Broke 0 #64 October 21, 2005 You never added yes I am a sick fucker who owns the faces of death videosDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pash 0 #65 October 21, 2005 Not a reply to anyone specific but I think overall people should chill a little about the morality thing. If you need to see it to believe it then go see it. If you can conceive of the death and the danger of the sport without actually having to watch it on video excellent. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong. I just don't agree with the "it's people's nature argument." Everything about skydiving, from my very brief and limited experience, goes against human nature and conquering it. If you have to watch a video to do that go do it. If not, even better because you hopefully get it. If you the kind of person that feels invinceable, you are probably not reading this thread right now. You're probably making toast in the bathtub. jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #66 October 21, 2005 QuoteYou might want to take a step back for a second and realize that I didn't have anything removed. I'm sorry, I got you mixed up with the poster that had the video removed. My bad. QuoteSecondly, if you are going to compare a seatbelt safety video to the skydiving snuff video, I am wasting my time with a person that obviously cannot acertain the innate difference betweent the two. I don't want to waste your time, but if you do find some time, explain to me the difference in the two videos. IMO, a lesson can be learned from both of them.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #67 October 21, 2005 QuoteJust in case you are wondering, I picked the top one. The posting of that video was totally wrong and had absolutely no educational value to us as skydivers what-so-ever. I felt I had to voice my opinion because I was lumped into the statement that was made about us as skydivers, since I'm a skydiver. It's just my opinion and I'm happy that I live in a country where I can decided what I want to watch and what I don't want to watch. America, it's a great place to liveMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eiley 0 #68 October 21, 2005 QuoteIf you can conceive of the death and the danger of the sport without actually having to watch it on video excellent. You know, I totally thought I could, and would've sworn black and blue that I understood the dangers of the sport and accepted them. I read the incident reports, had seen some nasty accidents, watched the videos. If someone told me then "you can never understand until you see it happen" I would have scoffed at them, assuming they were simply big-noting themselves. It wasn't until I was holding the hand of a far more switched-on and competent skydiver than me while the first response team pumped on his chest until blood came out of his ears did I realise that I'd been kidding myself. And yeah, it totally made me question continuing jumping. (However, I have to agree with grasshopper - although I wish Paul was alive today, I'm glad I saw it rather than being told about it). I don't think its such a bad idea to show videos of the real deal to A-Licence candidates. Understanding intellectually just didn't compare to the real thing for me. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #69 October 21, 2005 QuoteThe 10th one you have seen, will more than likely shock you as much the first. Just a speculation though. Not really. The first time I knew someone that died it ripped me apart. It gets less emotionally damaging as it happens more often. It does not get easier...But I don't lose sleep and question why."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vectracide 0 #70 October 21, 2005 QuoteI wonder if you know deep down inside you that it can happen to you as easily as it can happen to anyone. I dont have to wonder at all. The thought of it occurs all the time. I dont mean every jump, but often enough. Nothing galvanizes your mortality than spinning on your back with unrecoverable line twists that have created g-forces so strong that it makes it hard to cut away. Then on top of that finally being under my reserve at the 900' level. Then there are the highly skilled people that have died either pushing the limits, or just going on a normal skydive. Chris Martin on one side, and Holly on the other. It can happen at all levels of peoples personal limits. As far as death goes, it is all too much a part of my profession. I see it, and do everything I can to keep that person within this world. It sucks to not be able to effect that desired change. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites outrager 6 #71 October 21, 2005 Yo ! Where's a simple "Yes" option? I cannot vote on existing ones. Many BASE jumping students these days are required to watch accident and bounce footage. Skydiving did become incredibly soft and mainstream, but it still helps to know - on emotional level - exactly what you are dealing with. bsbd! Yuri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pash 0 #72 October 21, 2005 QuoteIt wasn't until I was holding the hand of a far more switched-on and competent skydiver than me while the first response team pumped on his chest until blood came out of his ears did I realise that I'd been kidding myself. And yeah, it totally made me question continuing jumping. Hi Eiley, I'm sorry for your loss I didn't even see my friend die, only got the call. I felt like that was enough for me to understand to the point of being safe and not wanting to be used as a training tool in a video. If I actually do witness something live like you did, I'm sure it would bring about some kind of changes in me. I'm just hopeful that the only change isn't that I finally get that I must respect the sport and it's danger. I'm just trying to say I get that now without needing to see the video. Of course if it's part of a required course of some kind I really have no problem. I'm just not "curious" to see it. take care, jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goose491 0 #73 October 21, 2005 Check myself? Listen here Mr. No name entered: I'm sorry if my post put a knot in your knickers, but the very first words of your very first post were: "In light of they most inappropriate post..." "most inapporpriate" is very different then: "inappropriate in my honnest oppinion" So anyway, I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. But about your oppinions, declare them such off the get go. Here you have failed to do so. You have shaken your finger at others and chosen to change your tune to: "I'm not making them yours, or forcing them upon you in any way." after the fact, just because the majority doesn't agree with you. ('Defense' response to 'Attack' BTW) Nick QuoteI am truely saddended to see how many of you want to see another person bounce. There are worse things in life to get cranky about my friend. How about being saddened by the number of people that think nothing can happen to them? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
christelsabine 1 #54 October 20, 2005 Hi Ron, I fully agree to your post. Well said. As I really do not want to see ALL in my life, I second it. Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #55 October 20, 2005 QuoteSo some people are sick fucks big deal, my problem is when my mother and dear ones see these things, imagine, my mother won't go to the DZ (when I'm home in Bolivia) to see me, because she worries too much and it's not a pleasant experience for her. At family reunions they only talk about how they saw so and so die on TV and my mother dies inside and I FEEL that and pisses me off. Ever thought you could die? No one that bounced thought they were gonna die, but they still did. Its your Moms right not to watch or support your habit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #56 October 20, 2005 Nice post........puts things into proper perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #57 October 20, 2005 Have you ever seen someone bounce? and How many friends have you lost to skydiving accidents? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #58 October 21, 2005 I typed a whole bunch of stuff but thought better of it. Thanks...Glad my nonsense made sense to someone MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #59 October 21, 2005 Quote Have you ever seen someone bounce? and How many friends have you lost to skydiving accidents? rl No I have fortunately not seen anyone burn in. I hope I never will. If I say 1, will that not be enough? Or if I say 10, does that somehow validate my feelings on the matter? The 10th one you have seen, will more than likely shock you as much the first. Just a speculation though. I have had friends die, but the # is moot. Edited for clarity. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #60 October 21, 2005 QuoteI am truely saddended to see how many of you want to see another person bounce. "Want to"??? hell no! and I think I speak for nearly everyone in this thread (with a couple notable exceptions) there. when i see a bounce video, I'm not interested in the bounce... just the sequence of events and mistakes leading up to it. Also, "snuff video"? That really depends on how you look at it. In the case of UntamedDog, who wants the "thrill" of seeing someone die, yeah it's a snuff video. someone could get off just as easily on that seat belt video. Maybe more, it's a hell of a lot more graphic. Others see both as educational, as training, as evidence for the use of AAD's, ect. Your opinions are your own, and I won't try to change them. However, as said about a million times on this thread, it's a part of the sport; stay in it long enough, you'll see it first-hand. I've been lucky enough to get through 24 years without seeing one for real yet and hope to keep it that way, but I still remember the first skydiving fatality of someone I knew... I was 5 years old. My mind was spinning for days. If watching fatality videos teaches even one person enough to save their life, it's worth it."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grasshopper 0 #61 October 21, 2005 hell no, I don't want to see video of anyone "burning in". that being said, there are 2 disclaimers: 1. if it is someone I know, I would rather see it, than be told about it. I have witnessed a friend dying, and other people who saw the same thing had a different opinion as to what happened. I realized that point of view is different from fact, and it is usually difficult to determine fact. and 2, I think some people need to see someone "burn in", to realize how serious skydiving can be. it seems a lot of newer jumpers don't realize a error can result in death, since this sport tends to be relatively forgiving of stupid mistakes/________________________________________________________ Abbie drove me to Idaho and all I got was this lousy sigline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #62 October 21, 2005 QuoteSecondly, if you are going to compare a seatbelt safety video to the skydiving snuff video, I am wasting my time with a person that obviously cannot acertain the innate difference between the two. So, "waste your time" with me - explain the difference to me - if you can. Video 1 - person dies skydiving, don't see impact, don't see blood, no real "proof" person dies Video 2 - 3 people die in car accident, see impact - not only of car impacting car but of seatbeltless person hitting 3 individuals, blood displayed, proof utilized is people in body bags and firefighter stating "3 dead" Or maybe the truth is that as long as something fits your preconceived notions about morality and what's viewable and not, it's ok but if it doesn't, then holy hell - it's way wrong.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #63 October 21, 2005 QuoteQuote Have you ever seen someone bounce? and How many friends have you lost to skydiving accidents? rl No I have fortunately not seen anyone burn in. I hope I never will. If I say 1, will that not be enough? Or if I say 10, does that somehow validate my feelings on the matter? I have, but the # is moot. The 10th one you have seen, will more than likely shock you as much the first. Just a speculation though. I wonder if you know deep down inside you that it can happen to you as easily as it can happen to anyone. I think that carnage video serves a very important purpose in educating skydivers about their own mortality. Having seen carnage up close and personal, I don't feel any need to see such video (although I've seen some), and while I don't know if it should be part of the first jump course, I do think that sometime before a skydiver gets off student status, s/he should be acquainted with the harsh realities of this sport. I've run into too many people who have the idea that it can't happen to them--that dead people get that way because they're stupid. But that's not usually the case. Anyone can make a mistake, and when someone does, survival is often just a matter of dumb luck. This really isn't an ethical issue, you know, but more of a practical one. In the good old days, death was up close and personal for everyone. People died at home, sometimes from old age, but more often from disease and accidents. And the entire family participated in the death process. Nowadays, we have managed to distance ourselves from death. Even what we see on the news is sanitized, and what we see in movies...well, no matter how realistic it appears, we know it's just acting. The wrongness of this is brought home to us by the popularity of such sites as rotten and ogrish. We are fascinated by death, because it comes to us all, and no one knows what lies beyond. And yet, we now have a generation to whom death is almost unreal instead of merely a fact of life. If it takes watching the death of another skydiver to bring home that death is very real and that the reaper ever waits, then I'm all for it. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #64 October 21, 2005 You never added yes I am a sick fucker who owns the faces of death videosDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pash 0 #65 October 21, 2005 Not a reply to anyone specific but I think overall people should chill a little about the morality thing. If you need to see it to believe it then go see it. If you can conceive of the death and the danger of the sport without actually having to watch it on video excellent. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong. I just don't agree with the "it's people's nature argument." Everything about skydiving, from my very brief and limited experience, goes against human nature and conquering it. If you have to watch a video to do that go do it. If not, even better because you hopefully get it. If you the kind of person that feels invinceable, you are probably not reading this thread right now. You're probably making toast in the bathtub. jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #66 October 21, 2005 QuoteYou might want to take a step back for a second and realize that I didn't have anything removed. I'm sorry, I got you mixed up with the poster that had the video removed. My bad. QuoteSecondly, if you are going to compare a seatbelt safety video to the skydiving snuff video, I am wasting my time with a person that obviously cannot acertain the innate difference betweent the two. I don't want to waste your time, but if you do find some time, explain to me the difference in the two videos. IMO, a lesson can be learned from both of them.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #67 October 21, 2005 QuoteJust in case you are wondering, I picked the top one. The posting of that video was totally wrong and had absolutely no educational value to us as skydivers what-so-ever. I felt I had to voice my opinion because I was lumped into the statement that was made about us as skydivers, since I'm a skydiver. It's just my opinion and I'm happy that I live in a country where I can decided what I want to watch and what I don't want to watch. America, it's a great place to liveMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #68 October 21, 2005 QuoteIf you can conceive of the death and the danger of the sport without actually having to watch it on video excellent. You know, I totally thought I could, and would've sworn black and blue that I understood the dangers of the sport and accepted them. I read the incident reports, had seen some nasty accidents, watched the videos. If someone told me then "you can never understand until you see it happen" I would have scoffed at them, assuming they were simply big-noting themselves. It wasn't until I was holding the hand of a far more switched-on and competent skydiver than me while the first response team pumped on his chest until blood came out of his ears did I realise that I'd been kidding myself. And yeah, it totally made me question continuing jumping. (However, I have to agree with grasshopper - although I wish Paul was alive today, I'm glad I saw it rather than being told about it). I don't think its such a bad idea to show videos of the real deal to A-Licence candidates. Understanding intellectually just didn't compare to the real thing for me. nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #69 October 21, 2005 QuoteThe 10th one you have seen, will more than likely shock you as much the first. Just a speculation though. Not really. The first time I knew someone that died it ripped me apart. It gets less emotionally damaging as it happens more often. It does not get easier...But I don't lose sleep and question why."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #70 October 21, 2005 QuoteI wonder if you know deep down inside you that it can happen to you as easily as it can happen to anyone. I dont have to wonder at all. The thought of it occurs all the time. I dont mean every jump, but often enough. Nothing galvanizes your mortality than spinning on your back with unrecoverable line twists that have created g-forces so strong that it makes it hard to cut away. Then on top of that finally being under my reserve at the 900' level. Then there are the highly skilled people that have died either pushing the limits, or just going on a normal skydive. Chris Martin on one side, and Holly on the other. It can happen at all levels of peoples personal limits. As far as death goes, it is all too much a part of my profession. I see it, and do everything I can to keep that person within this world. It sucks to not be able to effect that desired change. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #71 October 21, 2005 Yo ! Where's a simple "Yes" option? I cannot vote on existing ones. Many BASE jumping students these days are required to watch accident and bounce footage. Skydiving did become incredibly soft and mainstream, but it still helps to know - on emotional level - exactly what you are dealing with. bsbd! Yuri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pash 0 #72 October 21, 2005 QuoteIt wasn't until I was holding the hand of a far more switched-on and competent skydiver than me while the first response team pumped on his chest until blood came out of his ears did I realise that I'd been kidding myself. And yeah, it totally made me question continuing jumping. Hi Eiley, I'm sorry for your loss I didn't even see my friend die, only got the call. I felt like that was enough for me to understand to the point of being safe and not wanting to be used as a training tool in a video. If I actually do witness something live like you did, I'm sure it would bring about some kind of changes in me. I'm just hopeful that the only change isn't that I finally get that I must respect the sport and it's danger. I'm just trying to say I get that now without needing to see the video. Of course if it's part of a required course of some kind I really have no problem. I'm just not "curious" to see it. take care, jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #73 October 21, 2005 Check myself? Listen here Mr. No name entered: I'm sorry if my post put a knot in your knickers, but the very first words of your very first post were: "In light of they most inappropriate post..." "most inapporpriate" is very different then: "inappropriate in my honnest oppinion" So anyway, I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. But about your oppinions, declare them such off the get go. Here you have failed to do so. You have shaken your finger at others and chosen to change your tune to: "I'm not making them yours, or forcing them upon you in any way." after the fact, just because the majority doesn't agree with you. ('Defense' response to 'Attack' BTW) Nick QuoteI am truely saddended to see how many of you want to see another person bounce. There are worse things in life to get cranky about my friend. How about being saddened by the number of people that think nothing can happen to them? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
