Opinion on tracking dives

[simplyputsi 0]

Hey all. This weekend I wanted to do a tracking dive because the uppers were kicking pretty nice so I figured could get a little more distance with them. Well just prior to loadin up a jumper asks what we are doing, 2 way track, and says well which way are you tracking. A fair enough question. Winds coming out of nw so I say South South east. To which I get a reply of "so straight at us".
Now had I wanted to argue I could have, but I listened to what else he had to say and still was not happy. "My opionion is if there is a tracking dive on a load that is the only thing that should be going on"
What?? First time I've ever heard that. I do agree that if you are last out and are tracking back that yes you are over other jumpers. However, that is not what was going to be done. As every other tracking dive I've been on you tilt your track to the left or right of jump run so as to not track over others. Not only that but because you are getting out 30 seconds to a minute later, on this dive, the previous people are now deploying or are far below you. I am aware of the dangers here. However it was agreed we would be pulling a little high, 4-5 grand, and that was higher than all previous jumper altitudes. So What I would like to know is what are the rules on tracking dives at your dz? For my tracking dive was fubared because in the end instead of arguing we just decided to track upwind for 20 seconds then turn just short of 180 and track. Since the winds were so strong up top there was not, if any, tracking going on. The jump sucked and to tell you the truth I'm pretty pissed. Guess I should have spoke up though. A jumps a jump.

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[nate_1979 9]

Most tracking dives I've done we get out first, our jump run is usually east - west so we track south.. usually.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[skybytch 259]

Only track up or down jump run if you are the only group getting out on that pass. Otherwise, track 90 degrees off jump run, then either turn 90 so you are parallel or plan to pull high so you can make it back.

That's the way I've seen it done and it seems to work.

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Not only that but because you are getting out 30 seconds to a minute later, on this dive, the previous people are now deploying or are far below you.

What if one of the previous people have a premature deployment?

[davelepka 4]

This is a tricky one, and there are a few differing veiw points on this.

Soooo, the best plan for any tracking dive is to fly the standard jump run, and release the other jumpers as usual, then proceed out a ways (winds depending) and do a 180 turn to fly a paralell downwind jumprun, about 1/4 off of the original jump run. This way you have your tailwind, a clear path in front of you, and the exits are easier as you are tracking the same directions as the plane.

Can't get your own jumprun? The next best plan is to exit in the middle of the load, and track 90 off of jump run, for about 3/4 of the dive, and 180 yourself back toward the jump run. The idea is to get most of the way back to jumprun, but to come up a little short to allow for heading errors in making the turns.

You have a problem trying to fit a tracking dive, which has a long flight path, in with groups falling straight down, as the jumprun was not designed to accomasate both.

Simply angling off of jumprun, and tracking back downwind may not be the best idea. Again, any error in heading can create real problems. If you are getting out last, you have high pulling tandems and students to contend with early on, and the fun jumpers further down jump run.

The only time I will track just off jumprun (downwind) is if I am doing a solo. I'll sit in the door, and watch the drouges in freefall, and use them to draw a line back down jumprun. When I exit, this is my reference line, and I am strictly tracking belly to earth. As I proceed, I am scanning the jumprun for the earlier groups canopies, as well as any possible higher than planned deployments by students or tandems. Provided I can keep track of all the groups on the plane, I'll hold my line along jump run. If I should loose track of any of the tandems or AFF's I'll veer even further off of jump run. I beleive that this is the minnimum you need to be able to do to maintain the safety of those on the load.

If I should pick up even one other jumper to track, we'll move to tracking 90 off jump run, with a 180 3/4 of the way down.

If the dive should grow, I can also begin by tracking 90 off of jump run, and then turn another 90 back down jumprun about 1/4 of the way through the dive, resulting in a paralell jumprun without any help from the pilot.

Keep in mind that all of the above requires a 100% ability to know where you are in the sky (in relation to jumprun) and where you are heading. Even with my experience, it takes some thought beforehand, and during the jump. I use the AC as a heading reference right off the bat, and will use clouds or the sun after that. All of this is combined with good tracking skills, and thousands of camer jumps where positioning relative to the sun is key.

The other guy was right, You need to be VERY careful with tracking dives. They don't fit into the regular jump run, and by their nature, they are mid-air collisions waiting to happen. Even a slight heading error will magnify itself into a large one by the end of the jump, which is where it's really a problem. Undeveloped tracking skills, trying to take docks, or transitons can lead to large heading errors as well.

It's a big complicated mess, that requires you to back waaaaay up, look at the big picture, plan accordingly, and accurately dive your plan.

[HydroGuy 0]

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Most tracking dives I've done we get out first, our jump run is usually east - west so we track south.. usually.

Agreed, this is how I've seen them run. Tracking group out first (unless there is the rare skysurfer), immediately going to a heading perpendicular to the jump run.

Our DZ's exit order:

1. CRW/High Altitude Clear and Pulls get a seperate, offset first pass.
2. Skysurfers (because they take up so much friggin room)
3. Tracking
4. Lrg. Belly
5. Sml. Belly
6. Lrg Freefly
7. Sml Freefly
8. Solo Cleared Students
9. AFF Students and Tandems
10. Wingsuits

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[simplyputsi 0]

It had come up in the change of dive flow that we would track 90 degrees from jump run then turn and track down but that was not looked at as acceptable either since the person who was having a problem was on a 3 way belly and said when they tracked from their dive they could possible be in the same spot as us. Thus the reason we said we would pull higher.
As for the premature deployment of another, I would never track over anyone else.
I'm not saying that I was right or he was right, I just have never had such opposition to a tracking dive before.
There were no tandems on this load. I would generally want another pass if tandems were on the load.

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[piisfish 135]

why turn ?? just track your arse off and take the chance of landing out...

Don't know how your surroundings are, but I just love to land out. Anywhere...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[nate_1979 9]

We dont have the option of landing out, very safetly anyway, but I also do not turn... On a tracking dive I plan on pulling higher (aprox. 5,000 ft) because I know i'm going to open in a shitty spot, just part of the dive

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[FrflyPimpDaddy 0]

If you are going to do a track dive anything but perpendicular to jump run please let me know so I can be sure and not get on that load with you. I'd rather not eat your canopy or have you eating mine.

If the uppers were kicking, why not do a cross country? Let the pilot know, and then open as soon as you get out. That's what you really should be doing with high uppers. Tracking dives should never be dependent on uppers. Sure high winds will carry you far, but if you really want to travel then open your canopy.

[speedy 0]

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This is a tricky one

You are right and it gives me no end of problems when someone announces they want to do a tracking dive.

It's interesting how most people seem to way over estimate how far they can track. Not only that but most of the jumpers never even know how much wind there is at altitude.

A cross wind drop run makes things a little easier. Put the trackers out in the middle and tell em to track to DZ. If they are good trackers they don't have the best spot but it's pretty safe.

A little secret, at my DZ, in most cases there is no problems with out landings. So I let the trackers over estimate their tracking abilities. They go out last and if they don't pull very high, they are landing out .

If they let me decide what they should do. Then only on a clear day (zero cloud) and I tell what to aim for (i.e. aim for the golf course). They go out first and track 45° to the jump run. There is enough exit separation for it to be safe. If they can't/don't track, again they are probaly landing out.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[davelepka 4]

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on a clear day (zero cloud) and I tell what to aim for (i.e. aim for the golf course). They go out first and track 45° to the jump run.

This sort of thing is highly dependent on who is doing the leading. Even a reasonably good tracker can be derailed by jumpers attempting docks, or other manuvers. It takes an experienced leader to keep the direction of the dive on the top of the priority list and not get distracted by cameras, other jumpers, or wayward trackers stealing his air.

Like I said, tracking dives really don't fit into a jump run, so you do have to make some consessions to that, and sometimes pullng high and/or not making it back have to be part of the deal.

[gus 1]

In small groups of experienced trackers we normally get out first, track off at 45 degrees and by pull time we have significantly more seperation than the other groups. With big groups or if you're less confident with the heading just get out last, track up the jump run (ie follow the plane), pull high to make sure you get back and enjoy the extra time under canopy
Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[speedy 0]

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on a clear day (zero cloud) and I tell what to aim for (i.e. aim for the golf course). They go out first and track 45° to the jump run.

This sort of thing is highly dependent on who is doing the leading.

Yeah, I know, that's why they should go out 1st.
If they do what was intended they will land on the DZ.
Either way, they will be far enough away from anyone else so as not to cause problems.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[inzite 0]

Just had to note that your sig at the bottom of this post is absolutely hilarious. Of course I understand that the sig refers to a completely different 45 degree rule ;)

[sweep 0]

I haven't really done much group tracking (couple of two ways is all) but when doing solos I was taught the best solution was one of the following :
- Get out first and track down jump run (eg dive exit towards the tail and keep going that way)

- Get out last and track up jump run (can be most easily achieved with a forward facing exit and then straight into a track on heading).

Obviously you need to be very aware of upper wind conditions under canopy as you will end up very short or very deep, and you need to prepare to pull early.

However for people who are not world-class trackers, this seems to be the best way of getting separation. Particularly if there is any concern about maintaining a heading since you have a field of 180degrees to be wrong by before you come close to flying towards someone elses flight path.

The two pictures I've attached show each version at three stages of the jump, obviously separations are closed up to make the pictures better but they should represent the horizontal flight paths enough to explain what I mean. It seems to be that either of these flight plans give the best guarantee of horizontal separation at any given point.

However when visiting a different drop zone once I got a very stern talking to from a jumpmaster when I discussed my plans with him as he was concerned I should even suggest tracking up or down the jump run - so i'd be interested in other people's opinions as to whether what I'm describing works or if there's something I'm missing.

Sweep

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Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..