Superman32 0 #1 November 16, 2005 If you are buying a used rig, should there be signatures involved or just a hand shake? Should I have some form of documentation saying that I have purchased X equipment form Y person for Z amount of money and have both parties sign it? Personally, I prefer the just the hand shake, but... Should you register the gear with the manuf. even if you are not the original buyer? BTW, I can't wait to get it, I've been dreaming about hugging, kissing and errr..loving that new rig. Oh yeah , jumping it to. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #2 November 16, 2005 When I have sold a rig or a parachute I have included a "Bill of Sale" with the S/N of the item or items for the purchaser to have. Dont know if it is anything that I sould be doingit, but if nothing else the person is getting the S/n's in a single place. On the other side, I have bought a number of things and not received anything like that.. I guess it is what you want but it cant hurt.. Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff.Donohue 0 #3 November 16, 2005 I agree with sdctlc. Attached is a sample Bill of Sale, that you might find interesting to read. (This isn't legal advice, and I'm not your lawyer...) Note that the seller in this Bill of Sale is only representing that she has clean title to the rig (i..e, that it's not stolen, or subject to a lien, etc.). I'm assuming you've had a rigger inspect it. This Bill of Sale doesn't address stuff like the rig being airworthy, or fit for use, or anything like that. I wouldn't rely on any legal representation for that sort of stuff! (Somehow, the concept that "gee, my estate will be able to sue" will make me less happy immediately upon a main mal than the concept that a capable rigger has worked his or her rigger magic on the rig... That might be just me, though.) Most of it (particularly, the notary stuff) is admittedly overkill... (On the other hand, I do all of my skydiving through my S corporation, to minimize risk... ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #4 November 16, 2005 QuoteIf you are buying a used rig, should there be signatures involved or just a hand shake? Should I have some form of documentation saying that I have purchased X equipment form Y person for Z amount of money and have both parties sign it? Personally, I prefer the just the hand shake, but... If somebody selling you a rig isn't willing to give you a signed receipt, that should make you wonder why. -- Is there something wrong with it? (Which of course doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to thoroughly inspect & test the gear before you buy it.) -- Is it possibly stolen? QuoteShould you register the gear with the manuf. even if you are not the original buyer? Not everybody does, but it couldn't hurt. It might help in case your rig someday is "lost" or stolen; if it's later recovered, registration may help identify you as the owner. And if there's a registered chain of ownership, that may help you sell it in the future to a buyer who's being extra-careful he's not buying stolen gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,421 #5 November 16, 2005 >If somebody selling you a rig isn't willing to give you a signed >receipt, that should make you wonder why. I've sold a lot of gear. Never gave anyone a recepit, and probably never will. If they don't trust me enough to buy from me without written documentation, well heck - I'd rather sell to someone who does, or just let Square 1 sell it for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #6 November 16, 2005 Well, then you're less paranoid than I am. Or maybe it's just my "occupational perspective". (Maybe that's the same thing). Edited to add: I suppose if I knew the seller & his/her rig personally, or if the seller was a "particularly well-known skydiver", I might be willing to buy it w/o a receipt. But from a total stranger? I'd want a receipt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #7 November 16, 2005 I have no doubts what so ever that the person from whom I am buying the rig is legitimate nor of the quality of the equipment. I just want to know if it is uncommon to require some type of documentation that I can keep for my own records. It might also make it easier to have it added to your insurance if you actually have some type of proof of purchase. It is also a chunky amount of money. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #8 November 16, 2005 I've bought and sold a lot of gear. We exchange a check for gear, and that's that. It works for me. linz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #9 November 16, 2005 QuoteWe exchange a check for gear... Of course, doing that leaves a paper trail once the check is cashed or deposited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #10 November 16, 2005 Damn, I didn't even thing to ask for a receipt for that last item I bought from you. But I do have a canceled check I don't see a problem asking for a receipt. I know we all say, but we are all family. Having a receipt protects both the buyer and the seller.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #11 November 16, 2005 I would go with a list of items and serial numbers. I think I provided that on the last used gear I sold, along with a statement of the number of jumps on each component. And name and price. It takes maybe 3 minutes, and I don't see any reason why not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,067 #12 November 17, 2005 As with all and my most recent "second-hand" purchase. I get a bill of sale that includes; make/model/serial number for each piece of equipment (can be gotten off the packing data card and matched to actual equipment), amount exchanged and both parties signatures. Takes five minutes. Just bought a new accuracy rig!! Vector III, PD 300. PDr 254... first jump - landed it on a dime. And how's Mar? (P.S. living in Cleveland Ohio now) Skyfest is on my radar for next year. You?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #13 November 17, 2005 QuoteSkyfest is on my radar for next year. I've heard that beforeMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #14 November 17, 2005 QuoteJust bought a new accuracy rig!! Vector III, PD 300. PDr 254... first jump - landed it on a dime. Sounds like a fun game. From what altitude do you drop the dime? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #15 November 17, 2005 QuoteShould I have some form of documentation saying that I have purchased X equipment form Y person for Z amount of money and have both parties sign it? I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. Having said that: That's about what I've done when I've sold one of my cars. It's not a rig, but it _is_ usually a non-trivial chunk of money. "Eule, having free and clear title to a 1991 Ford Escort, VIN 1FAPP(whatever), is selling that vehicle, as-is, to Superman32 for $amount on (date)." I also sign/ transfer the official legal title, which is probably sufficient documentation, but I like giving and having the "receipt". The thing that Jeff posted is about the same thing, but written in lawyer instead of English. Having it in English instead of lawyer might help people who are only expecting a handshake to not freak out about signing a piece of paper. QuoteShould you register the gear with the manuf. even if you are not the original buyer? I'd say yes. When you do this, you could check with them to see if there are any modifications or changes that need to be done. I think normally your rigger would do this, but asking is free and you might learn something interesting. Also, if the manufacturer comes up with a required modification in the future, they have a way to get in touch with you. EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff.Donohue 0 #16 November 17, 2005 Eule's right, it is in lawyer English, and his works just as well. Was too busy to make one of my "off the shelf" from my bag of tricks readable... Sorry about that, folks. (I'm going to hang my head in shame, since I used to teach legal writing -- to make it more like what Eule wrote, not like the archaic piece of crap I posted -- but I got lazy....) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,067 #17 November 17, 2005 I actually tape it to the bottom of my foot so I can always say, "I landed on a dime." Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #18 November 18, 2005 QuoteI have no doubts what so ever that the person from whom I am buying the rig is legitimate nor of the quality of the equipment. Me either. I share your faith in the seller After all, his other rig is an 05 Fat Boy __ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #19 November 18, 2005 QuoteI share your faith in the seller hahaha... Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #20 November 19, 2005 I have bought both of my rigs from a good friend of mine who I know would never try to screw me over and I never thought of having to get a bill of sale. It all depends on who your dealing with I guess.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScratchTX 0 #21 November 19, 2005 Karma issue, not skydiving issue. Bought my rig used from an internet "stranger." She sent it to my rigger, I jumped it, had some life stuff suddenly happen where I couldn't buy it or jump for a while, and sent it back. 6 months later asked her if she still had it; she did. I was very strapped for cash, even for this inexpensive older gear. She sent it to me with the understanding that I would send her three equal payments to pay it off within six months. I did. I was happy. She was happy. It's been a year since I've jumped it. But if/when I sell it, I'd do the same to get someone jumping. Do what feels right to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #22 November 19, 2005 Quote(I'm going to hang my head in shame, since I used to teach legal writing -- to make it more like what Eule wrote, not like the archaic piece of crap I posted -- but I got lazy....) Don't worry about it. Among other things, I do technical writing, where one tries to clearly explain a complicated subject. This is precisely the opposite goal of (traditional) legal writing, where you take a simple subject and make it sound complicated. :) Some of the problem with legal writing is that it's not 1800 anymore. The main problem, though, is that you're trying to express formal concepts with natural language. Imagine if there weren't equations, or symbols for the elements - writing about math or chemistry would involve great masses of words, like much of the law does now. On the other hand, if you did come up with some kind of formal grammar for the law, you'd simply change the set of people that can read it from "lawyers" to maybe "mathematicians", which may or may not be an improvement. I have noticed, over the past several years, an increase in everyday legal things like credit card agreements that are written in relatively plain language. There is a group in the UK (Plain English Campaign) that actively promotes this. I used to program computers for a basketball coach from Mississippi and about the third time I heard about leveraging synergies, I put a copy of 'Brevity' http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/reportguide.html#Anchor-'Brevi-65454 on the outside of my cube. EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #23 November 19, 2005 Excellent post (#22), Eule. Of course, it was neither brief nor simple.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #24 November 21, 2005 Here 's what I wrote just before leaving for the DZ. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #25 November 22, 2005 QuoteHere's what I wrote just before leaving for the DZ. Nobody expects the Spelling Inquisition! Quote I, [Seler Seller] of [town], Pennsylvania, owner of all items listed bellow below, hereby sell and transfer full ownership of the same to [Buyer] of [town], New Jersey, based on the payment in the sum of XXXX thousand dollars ($X,000.00). I also state that I have fully disclosed any and all information that I am aware of regarding number of jumps, date of manufacture, repairs, damage, modifications and other relevant information. The main thing is the "I am aware of". Again, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. But, you can't disclose something you don't know about. What I am thinking of is something like this: next year, the rig maker discloses that rigs from serial number X to Y were mistakenly fitted with cutaway handles from the scrawny South American handle tree instead of robust Florida handle trees. If whoever bought your rig wanted to be sufficiently bloody-minded, he or she could come after you, claiming that you didn't mention this at the time of sale. Not that anybody would be that bloody-minded, but you gotta watch out for those Harley riders. The fumes from the chrome polish and incomplete combustion (from the famous 'potato-potato' sound) tend to addle their brains. Plus they get grumpy for a week or so every fall while their bike metamorphoses into an Escalade, and then again in the spring when it changes back into a bike. (This is based on nature studies at a bar near my house.) :) EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
