How to placate the parents?

[Andy9o8 0]

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OK, no one else has said it, so I guess I will. In my, not so humble, opinion, you will NEVER be able to placate your parents.

..............

You are dealing with belief that is further clouded by emotion. In my experience, when a person believes something, then there is nothing that can change that. Fact, logic, evidence are surprisingly ineffective tolls when encountering belief. To try to advance an argument using those tools is a losing battle for sure.

................

That being said, keep jumping and do what you need to do to hide or at the least, don't mention it. Part of becoming an adult is finding your own way. Sometimes this entails doing things your family doesn't like or approve of.

Kirzz, I happen to agree with all of this completely, even though I was dancing around the issues a bit more in my last post. But what Tink just said here is exactly my opinion, too; and as I said, it's also based on my personal experience. So now count at least 2 people here who have told you this.

[cocheese 0]

Tell them you want to be one of the best skydivers in the world. Then become one.

[bch7773 0]

Don't keep it from them. I started at 19 and decided that i wasn't going to tell them until I got my A license.

However they found out from a friend of a friend and they were PISSED, but mostly because i didn't tell them what i was doing.

They've gradually accepted it. My mom is terrified for me, and my dad thinks its stupid, but he's ok with it. However this took many arguments and years of safe skydiving before they believed me.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[thepollster 0]

a) the stigma assc. w/ skydiving is a product of media hype

What stigma? Skydiving isn't rational, but it sure is fun.


b) the parachute is like a machine, if packed properly, it will open properly

It won't. You are throwing out nylon in 120MPH wind. Expect and accept randomness to sneak in.


c) skydivers aren't out to kill themselves and safety is always priority no. 1

For many people, safety is less important than looking cool and having fun. If safety was priority 1, we would all stay at home and watch TV.


d) the number of fatalities arising from human error are large in proportion to total malfunctions

That won't make you less dead if you have a fatal human error.


e) it is a highly highly regulated sport

It isn't.

[bob.dino 0]

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e) it is a highly highly regulated sport

It isn't.

Kirrz has been jumping in Australia, not the USA. In my limited experience, Australia falls somewhere between the USA (light-to-none) and the UK (heavily regulated).

[Speer 0]

Kirrz,

Worrying about their children is what parents do. It's natural, and almost universal. Take heart in the fact that it's a demonstration that they love you. Two of my four children have jumped with me. I understand that there are risks associated with skydiving, and even I have some concerns about my children jumping. You can bet I took pains to carefully choose where they would jump. I also have different comfort levels regarding which of my children jump! Your parents likely know nothing about skydiving, so it's no surprise they would be frightened.

20 years after her passing, I can still hear my mom say "Parachutes, guns, and motorcycles!... I don't know what's wrong with you!" She'd apologize to my wife, assuring her that she never raised me to have a death wish, and couldn't understand how I could volunteer for hazardous situations... Unfortunately, I was never very diplomatic about it, and didn't take the opportunity to explain my motivations to my parents, or explain what I was doing to try to improve the odds for my successful survival. In retrospect, that was a mistake on more than one level.

This just may be a great opportunity for you to bridge the gap between the Indian and "Western" cultures. If you make it your goal to educate them not only on how you mitigate the obvious risks, but on the value it adds to your life in practical terms... you just may find that the exercise brings you closer to your parents.

Good luck.

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[Eule 0]

My parents took it pretty well. I had about three jumps when I told them, and the way I told them was
by saying "I've got something I want you to watch" and putting in the video of my first jump. At first
they were pretty freaked out, but over the course of an hour or two of talking about it, it wound up
as, "Do you have any [still] pictures we can take to work and show our friends?" Now they are pretty
much OK with it. I think Mom wants to do a tandem.

I was a little more roundabout with my mother-in-law, because she has a reason to be opposed to
jumping. I didn't think I mentioned it to her when I saw her this spring (before I started jumping),
but I know she found out by at least a couple of months ago when my sister-in-law found out. I
visited her for Thanksgiving (last week) and was completely ready for anything from a hug to her
not letting me in her house. She let me in and we talked about it a bit and her words were basically,
"I don't approve, but you can do what you want and I'm not angry at you. Just be careful."

I agree with the earlier post that it might be a problem of "belief". Some things can be fixed by
arguing with numbers and technical information and some can't. If your Dad has a Honda that
he thinks can go 300 miles an hour, it's pretty easy to do the math of weight and horsepower, or
take it to a race track and try it, to show that it can't. But if he has a "thing" about skydiving, then
it'll be harder to convince him. You'll probably know the difference after a few minutes of talking to
him about it.

Good luck!

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[billvon 2,427]

>a) the stigma assc. w/ skydiving is a product of media hype

Probably true.

>b) the parachute is like a machine, if packed properly, it will open
> properly.

Not really true. Parachutes, even when designed, constructed, maintained, packed and deployed properly, can malfunction - and that's true of both mains and reserves.

>c) skydivers aren't out to kill themselves and safety is always priority
> no. 1

I'd be cautious about using this one. You can make safety your top priority, but many skydivers don't.

>d) the number of fatalities arising from human error are large in
>proportion to total malfunctions

I'm not sure that's true. There are thousands of malfunctions every year, but ~30-50 fatalities a year, of which 95% are due to human error. You might have meant "the number of fatalities arising from human error are large compared to the number of fatalities where the jumper did everything right" which is definitely true.

>e) it is a highly highly regulated sport

It's really not. Again, you can choose to only jump at places that are highly self-regulated, but almost anything goes in this sport. It's not regulated nearly as much as, say, general aviation, skiing or off-roading.

At the end of the day, skydiving is still a dangerous sport. It's inherently different from most other sports in that you can't "stop things" if you run into trouble. You can't just sit down on the slope, or shut off your motorcycle and coast to a stop, or stop running. That being said, it is about as safe as it has ever been due to advances in equipment, training methods and aircraft. You are _relatively_ safe learning to skydive, but I don't think that equals that learning to skydive is safe.

>I figured I'll give him this info one of these days and we can argue
> about it rationally in 3 months time, at least he will be properly
> informed.

I think you may have to decide if this is something you really want to do. If it is, then do it, and try to be open about your decision with your father. If you keep trying to convince him it's OK, and you try to get him to 'allow' you to do it, he may see it as a protecting-my-child thing. "If I let my daughter do something so dangerous, I'm a terrible father!" If instead you _tell_ him you're doing it, he has a better opportunity to accept your decision as that of an adult and deal with it accordingly.

[riggerrob 558]

Just be sure that "you" want to skydive.

Near Vancouver, we also have lots of first generation and second generation immigrants from India, Pakistan, China, etc. They are all going through the same cultural shock as newer generations slowly shed habits from the "old country."

ERgo, we get plenty of East Indian young women who do tandem jumps just to defy their parents/assert their independence, etc.

The funniest was when this 5' tall, 100 pound East Indian young woman arrived for a tandem with four hulking (6 foot plus, 220 pounds if they weighed an ounce) Sikh guys in tow.
She spent the entire freefall yelling obscenities and making obscene gestures at the cameraman. The following load I took up her huge, Sikh boyfriend. He was scared stiff, and clearly did not enjoy the jump, but there was no way he would allow a "mere woman" to appear braver than him!
Hah!
Hah!

For the record, if my post seems prejudiced against Sikhs, I can tell equally funny stories about the next dozen visible minorities.

Heck! White guys like me are becoming a minority in Southern British Columbia!
Hee!
Hee!

[kirrz 0]

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The following load I took up her huge, Sikh boyfriend. He was scared stiff, and clearly did not enjoy the jump, but there was no way he would allow a "mere woman" to appear braver than him!
Hah!
Hah!

Hahahahahaha, I am actually Sikh too and that is so typical it makes me laugh!
It's funny that you talk about rebelling.. I have just written a 3 page straight-from-the-heart to my dad that I will put infront of the folder.. and the first thing I said was that I know my history of being an impulse junkie will hinder him believing that skydiving is actually a rational decision.

My family's lived in Thailand for 4 generations.. went to an International school, then boarding school overseas and now am at uni in Sydney.. so they aren't really as backward as first generations.. I think it is more the danger factor that he is stressed about.

Thanks to everyone who told me to just do it. I have pretty much told him it is something I am going to do anyway, I would rather have him know about it, discuss his concerns with me etc. And I also said that I could not tell him and do it behind his back but I don't want to taint skydiving with immaturity because I am serious about it.

I also said that I know he won't actually cut me off, I am just worried that it will sour our relationship which is the last thing I want. I said "Now you can use that as a guilt trip “if you do it, I won’t talk to you” but is that really what you want it to come down to?"

And I concluded by saying that all I want for my 21st birthday (March) is for him to accept that I want to skydive.

.. that is my best shot.. I'm still going to do it. now i'll just feel less guilty because i've been honest.

thanks guys!!

• Quote

[amy 0]

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So I told him that we would have this argument again in 3 months.. during which I will gather adequate evidence and prove to him that it is not as dangerous as the general conception is.
I know that I could just go do it.. but I grew up in an Indian family where the concept of family is all-important so I would feel too guilty.. I would rather play clean.

You're probably not going to convince your dad that skydiving isn't dangerous, because it is dangerous. However, you're right that skydiving isn't as dangerous as most people probably think. Your dad may take more comfort in knowing that you're acknowledging the risk and taking steps to manage and minimize it, than by your attempts to convince him it's safe.

My parents were also very worried about my skydiving when I started (I was a sophomore in college), but I talked pretty openly about it with them, from discussing some fatalities in detail to telling them all about my first reserve ride. Whenever we discussed skydiving I talked about what extra steps I was taking to stay safe, and when we talked about fatalities I always emphasized that the accident was preventable and what I was doing to keep similar things from happening to me. I think they might have tried to stop me (like your dad did) if my attitude hadn't always been so safety-oriented when I talked with them.

It took some time, but they warmed to it. Now it's been almost 15 years, and my mom brags to her friends about the records and competitions I've been part of. I think in the end they could see how much joy skydiving brought me, and that I wasn't taking the risk lightly, and they accepted it.

You may also have to accept that there's nothing you can say to "convince" your parents, and that it may be something that's hard for them to discuss rationally for a while. It may help if you don't see it as an "argument," and take their worry as an indication of how much your parents love you. . .

Amy

[Jackpunx 0]

I have both health and life insurance. Just make sure you have all that in place before starting your skydiving adventures.


I have them too..got it long before I started skydiving..
I dont remember them asking me if I skydive..
In general.. (with out going back and reading my contract).. would I still be coverd?
Everyone trys to tell me that they dont cover skydiving..

[brianfry713 0]

If you started AFF and want to skydive, you should continue. Staying current (30 days in the US for students) is a good thing. If you have the money, go for it, despite what your parents say.

It is an extreme sport, it's probably just not mentioned in this Forbes article http://www.forbes.com/2002/08/07/0807sport.html because BASE jumping is and most people would agree that BASE jumping is way more dangerous.

As much evidence as you can gather, your parents will likely just see the side the media portrays which is almost always negative coverage after an incident. Give them your reasons why you want to jump and why you feel that the risks are worth it.

I jumped once when I was 18, told my parents afterward but I didn't have their support and couldn't afford it then. I waited another 7 years until I had a job and some money, and then jumped for about a year until I told them. My sister and her boyfriend made a tandem so I showed my parents the video thinking that would give me a little support.

During the conversation that night, my mom asked me "why don't you just go jump off a bridge?", which I replied "Ok, I'm doing that next week." Now things like skydiving, driving too fast, extreme skiing, and other dangerous sports I do seem tame after the BASE jumps. She's threatened to cut me off financially, but hasn't fully yet.

Go jump, have fun, talk to your parents about it but don't let them stop you. I regret missing 7 years of jumping, and am having a ton of fun now.

BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

[Jumpah 0]

IMHO, your father is probably scared that you'll die or get hurt. Parents (good ones) worry about that stuff constantly. I have no kids yet, so I don't know how that feels, but I've seen it consume my friends who do. I do know how I feel when my girlfriend has a seizure (epilepsy, fortunately they are infrequent). But I imagine that horror about one's child is much sharper.

So...I say go easy on him, but do what makes you happy, and be careful. You are beholden to no one but yourself, and someday you'll be an old lady who's life will be the product of your decisions. Your father is right that skydiving is dangerous, but the risk is dependent on how you do the sport...gear, weather, training, and more all have an effect on the outcome. There is also that luck thing, too, which can't be quantified very well.

My folks are quite supportive, fortunately. I was telling my Mom once about a guy who broke his ankle on a bad landing, and she interrupted me with "Well, you can break your ankle getting out of a car, too."

[MagicGuy 0]

My mom isn't exactly for the idea of skydiving, but she knows that it's something that I love and that regardless of what she says, I'm going to do it anyways. She has friends that skydive and they also help to ease her worries.

The only thing she asks of me is that I don't tell her when I'm going to jump, but that she wants to hear all about it after I land. :) I think she has a secret fascination for it but just doesn't want to show it!

[Speer 0]

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My family's lived in Thailand for 4 generations... ...so they aren't really as backward as first generations.. I think it is more the danger factor that he is stressed about.

... I have pretty much told him it is something I am going to do anyway, I would rather have him know about it, discuss his concerns with me etc...

I also said that I know he won't actually cut me off, I am just worried that it will sour our relationship which is the last thing I want...

And I concluded by saying that all I want for my 21st birthday (March) is for him to accept that I want to skydive.

.. that is my best shot.. I'm still going to do it. now i'll just feel less guilty because i've been honest.

Good for you! A very mature and honest approach... You're behaviour is the only evidence I have of your parents, and it would seem to indicate that they have done a good job raising you.

Love Thailand, it's a wonderful country, with a lot of wonderful and happy people.

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[kirrz 0]

Thanks :)
You made my day!