Deathcamp BASE/Skydive

[BenHall 0]

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Also one common theme in most sports is participants think they are doing something safe. So it is pretty easy to guess that many BASE folks think they are safe and that it would be safer.

On the contrary, from what I've seen BASE folks think they are doing something extremely dangerous.....which in turn makes them safer. Does that make sense?

[Ron 7]

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On the contrary, from what I've seen BASE folks think they are doing something extremely dangerous.....which in turn makes them safer. Does that make sense?

Not really. If they think it is so dangerous....then why do they say it is safer for a newbie with the same amount of training over a skydive with the same amount of training?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Calvin19 0]

"Also one common theme in most sports is participants think they are doing something safe. So it is pretty easy to guess that many BASE folks think they are safe and that it would be safer. "

Thats exactly what i mean...
BASE jumpers understand the gear more, understand its reliagbility, and that ALL errors are human... same as skydivers do.

Skydivers create an illusion of safety themselves...

I KNOW base is extremely dangerous. but i dont think it is the death sport that a lot of old school skydivers think it is.

If this question was asked on a strict survivability rate, as in done 10,000 times, how many fatalities would there be, i would bet that the BASE jump would have fewer. (If the PC was handheld)

if the PC was stowed, i bet 1 in 10 would ride it in.

[Calvin19 0]

OK... um...

im trying to explain...

I think a lot of BASE wuffos (as in total wuffos and skydivers) think BASE is more dangerous than it really is. (i also think there is some that think the opposite) BASE jumpers understand why people are dieing in their sport, and how reliable the gear is.

this is my resoning in saying that BASE jumpers would vote BASE, and Skydivers would vote skydive.

[packerboy 3]

Personally, based on the amount of altitude I needed on my first skydive to find my own pilot chute without the guiding hand of my freefall instructor I would think more than 1 in 10 wouldn't be able to find a pilot chute and get it out in 4 seconds. I think more like 6 in 10 would pound in.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Calvin19 0]

"would pound in."

what a nice way to put it. we have all punded in.
what i mean is a bit more, well, sharp. when a person hits the water from that bridge without a parachute, or without most of a parachute, it kinda sounds like a Bat hitting a baseball for a home run, without the satisfying acoustics of a lousiville slugger, instead you get the impression the batter just got beamed in the head with a 101mph fastball and no helmet.

blue skies!

[BenHall 0]

You seriously wouldn't be able to find a PC in less than four seconds when you knew that's all the time you would have? You gotta be crazy! W/ only four seconds, the jumper would probably spend a few hours walkin around w/ his hand on the PC and doing practice pulls. Just count to 4 out loud . . . that really is a long time. On top of that I think the BASE exit would be hand-held, in which case finding it is not an issue (well, I would hope not!)

[bmcd308 0]

I am going with skydiving, assuming they get equal amounts of training and making some other assumptions:

1. The BASE option is handicapped by being in a canyon, while the skydive gets a big landing area with few obstacles.
2. Both are done under squares. If the BASE jump is a round, I'll change my vote.
3. Student is VERY heads up as defined by "Deathcamp counselor". The climbout and exit from the Cessna will be a much bigger problem than the hop and almost immediate toss from the bridge. I think the skydiver is much more likely to deploy in a horrible body position (such as tumbling). If, however, the deathcamp counselor was pretty sure the guy would let go of the strut, arch, reach, and pull, then I think the other advantages of the skydive win.

The real advantages to the BASE jump are in spotting, particularly if using a round, and landing, since a crappy landing into water is preferable to a crappy landing onto the ground. Also, our BASE jumper will have less time to steer himself or herself into an obstacle.

This is a cool thread.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[Darius11 12]

I think a PCA from a bridge with a planed water landing would be the safest.

You reduce the chance of a Mal and injury from landing that is if the student doesn’t fuckup and steer towards land.


But hey WTF do i know i have not BASE jumped yet.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Ron 7]

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Thats exactly what i mean...
BASE jumpers understand the gear more, understand its reliagbility, and that ALL errors are human... same as skydivers do.

Skydivers create an illusion of safety themselves...

So if both think they are safe, and both think they know the gear...Then how is BASE safer than skydive?

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If this question was asked on a strict survivability rate, as in done 10,000 times, how many fatalities would there be, i would bet that the BASE jump would have fewer. (If the PC was handheld

Problem is the stats don't back that opinion up. A friend of mine, who used to be part owner of a BASE gear company, told me that a BASE jumper with 100 jumps is quite something. However, a skydiver with 1,000 jumps is quite common. He also told me that the injury/fatality rate was much higher for BASE.

Numbers I have seen supported that, but I don't remember where I saw them.

So please, what is the injury/fatality rate for BASE jumpers?

That right there will answer the question.

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I think a lot of BASE wuffos (as in total wuffos and skydivers) think BASE is more dangerous than it really is. (i also think there is some that think the opposite) BASE jumpers understand why people are dieing in their sport, and how reliable the gear is.

this is my resoning in saying that BASE jumpers would vote BASE, and Skydivers would vote skydive.

Perception is always skewed. Lets talk numbers. Incidents per jump. Skydiving has a reported Fatality rate of about 1 in 70,000 jumps. Or in participants about 1 in a 1,000 will die.

Your BASE camp has changed a bit. You have a BASE jumper doing a hand held jump (a normal beginner BASE jump) but have the skydiver doing a freefall solo (something very few skydiving students would ever do).

A more realistic situation would be a 4 second delay from BOTH jumpers. So a "hop n pop" for the freefaller.

In that situation the freefaller has the edge since if he takes 10 seconds to "pop" he will still live.

Also, canopy control. You said under the SAME equipment. So that means either both square, or both round. Both square..I'd give it to the skydiver since he has much more time to learn to control the canopy, and there are no walls to hit. Round would maybe go to the BASE since he has less time to drift into crap.

Why I think Skydiving is the "safer" of the two:
1. More time to open.
2. More time to learn the canopy.
3. TWO canopies as opposed to just one. You can claim all day that BASE rigs wanna open. So do student canopies and reserves.
4. CYPRES. Even though I say never to depend on one, it will most likey give the edge to the skydiver.

But like I said lets talk incident ratios.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Jumpah 0]

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But I think [having an AAD] makes it more likely that the
skydiver will end up with _something_ out in most situations.

I've yet to do a BASE jump where I forget to pull. It's hard not to forget.

I agree that it's hard to forget, if your brain is online. Hit your head
on the aircraft or object on exit, or have a heart attack or seizure just
as you leap off, and remebering isn't really under your control anymore.
once - maybe they're right.

[Calvin19 0]

"In the end...I dunno...but I think it'll depend on the person and how well they handle fear. "

perfect.
with that,
I am done.

I wish a good year to all skydivers. be well freinds. i leave you with a picture... i believe it speaks for itself

cheers

[Trae 1]

If it was a static line or PC assist instead of a short delay there would be no argument. Heaps fewer variables on the BASE jump into water compared to the skydive.

It could come down to the BASE pack job v's the multitude of things that could go wrong on a 1st solo skydive.

If the BASE packer was superlative there would be no question....the BASE would be safer just like army static lines from low altitude having such extreme safety records.

[MB38 0]

I think that the average person out there has experience jumping [not skydiving or base, just jumping] and experiencing freefall for approximately 1+ seconds. If anybody has ever jumped into a pool from a relatively high board then they can know what to expect.

I believe that a PCA/SL BASE jump would be the safer of the two. A handheld PC on a short delay? Probably safer as well. When that person leaves the bridge with the PC in their hand, they're experiencing the same thing that they experience when diving into a pool... just a lot higher. If they could overcome the emotional/psychological stress of what was happening, it would be a familiar event.

Assuming that person has had a bunch of practice launches [including mock PC throws] into a pool, they should be able to handle the short delay. Dead air is a lot more familiar to a non-jumper than the loud angry soup we fly through while skydiving.

A 1-2 second delay from the potato bridge wins over a 5,000 foot skydive to me.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[packerboy 3]

I agree... I don't BASE but I think a PCA or handheld BASE wins.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson