GPS tracks as a visual aid?

[Eule 0]

Hello all!

In the Google Earth DZ map thread, Muffy posted a link to some GPS tracks of a few jumps at Skydive Toronto. I didn't put the tracks on the page where I'm collecting DZ maps, but I have been looking at them in Google Earth.

It seems to me that this would be a great training aid for things like spotting and group separation. On some of the jumps you can clearly see the forward throw when the jumper exits the aircraft. Down low, you can see how jumpers get back to the DZ and fly a pattern under canopy. If you get the winds aloft data from the weather service and make a note of it, you could also compare jumps/spots under different wind conditions.

Having been through a couple of FJCs, I have seen "dry erase marker on laminated aerial photo of the DZ" used to good effect. One DZ I've been to has the students fill out a jump planner, part of which is plotting your landing pattern on a photo of the DZ. Both of these things are good (and inexpensive). But I think the Google Earth view is even better. It lets you zoom in, zoom out, and spin the view around to any angle and elevation so you can get a really good look at a particular track. It also caches the satellite photos, so if you don't have an Internet connection where you're going, you can look at the area of interest when you do have a connection and it will re-use those images when you use it offline at your destination.

I can think of a few different ways to do this. One would be for one jumper to make several "regular" jumps on different days with different winds (ground and aloft), different jump run speeds and directions, etc, and use those to show the effect of winds, spotting, etc. Another would be for several jumpers, each with a GPS, to exit with different amounts of time between them, to show the effect of group separation. There are probably several more.

Maybe this is an obvious idea that everyone else is already doing. I did do a search and plotting one's track with a GPS seems to be popular among wingsuit flyers, but I didn't see much about it for general-purpose use. What do you think?

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[Legs 0]

I think this is a great idea. If a research project was done, maybe enough evidence could be given to the sport to standardise exit order, and educate regarding exit seperation, as well as many more areas of safety.

Who's gonna fund it? Or is there people out there willing to share raw data with the site so it can be accumulated / studied.

I should imagine we would need quite a bit of data to make it worthwhile some ideas may be:

1.wind speed and direction both at altitude and on ground
2. Run in speed and direction
3. Position of skydiver / group in freefall ie flat / head down
4. No. of people in group
5. Planned Break off height
6. Planned pull height
7. then all the GPS data to match that jump.
7. Height of full deployment.

Is anyone in a position with a good database to do this easily?

Is anyone already doing it?

This has the potential of changing the face of skydiving.

With love in Christ

[popsjumper 2]

Is anyone going to provide everyone with the proprietary s/w and h/w upgrades required to use it?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[LouDiamond 1]

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Is anyone already doing it?

Yes, most doing it are using Paralog software to collect all of that data. Not only does it allow you to use the Google earth interface, it also provides data/numbers in a graph format so you can quantify it as well as correct for things like the winds at different altitudes. All of the possible data, speed, altitude, turn rate, glide ratio,etc can be seen on the graph simply by checking the appropriate box on the screen. The possible uses for it are quite broad as it can do a lot.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[billvon 2,400]

> Is anyone going to provide everyone with the proprietary s/w and h/w upgrades required to use it?

Shouldn't be too much proprietary stuff involved. Bikers do this already to get a 3D plot of their route.

[howardwhite 5]

For those who haven't seen the GPS tracks in Google Earth, a screen grab is attached. Very nice.

HW

[thedarkside 0]

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I think this is a great idea. If a research project was done, maybe enough evidence could be given to the sport to standardise exit order, and educate regarding exit seperation, as well as many more areas of safety.

Who's gonna fund it? Or is there people out there willing to share raw data with the site so it can be accumulated / studied.

I should imagine we would need quite a bit of data to make it worthwhile some ideas may be:

1.wind speed and direction both at altitude and on ground

I would actually take it a step further and get the winds for at least every 1000 ft, the velocity and direction.

Keep going faster until the joy of speed overcomes the fear of death.

[OSOK 0]

It sounds like a good idea... but can we start by having someone explain the process of getting the right equipment and making it work with Google Earth? I remember downloading Paralog and trying to get it to work with my Neptune... but no dice.

[Legs 0]

You to huh

With love in Christ

[LouDiamond 1]

Sounds like you may have had(I am assuming here) an IR port conflict issue. Paralog and all of the data loggers on the market have been tested thoroughly to work together seamlessly. However, the big one people usually have is with the IR computer interface. I am also assuming you had a licensed copy and not just the demo version of the software.

That said, all that is required for using a GPS with Paralog is:
1. A GPS receiver that can download tracks to a computer.
2. A computer that accepts the GPS receivers cable (USB or serial port, device and computer dependant).
3.The Paralog software(licensed) with the GPS license.
For downlaoding from only a data logger all that is needed is an IR port on your computer. Paralog can download tracks from a Neptune(data logger) or GPS receiver simply by selecting which device you want to download from within the software.

Once the data is downloaded from the devices( GPS, data logger or both from the same jump) all of the information is available for viewing as well as logging your jumps in Paralog. From the jump profiles screen you can see the track in Google Earth by clicking on the radio button in the bottom right corner of the screen labeled "show 3d map". You must have Google earth installed on your computer beforehand. The free version of Google Earth is all that is required for use with Paralog.If you have video from the jump, Paralog can associate the video with the data and have it overlayed on the video so that it changes in synch with the video.

Once you get Paralog set up and running, it is quite simple to use either as a simple log book for jumps, reserve and serial number reminder or for doing some serious data compilation.If you are having issues with your computer recognizing either the data logger or the GPS receiver in Paralog you can read the FAQ on the Paralog website as it answers a lot of questions or e-mail the author of the software, Klaus, for prompt assistance. Besides writting an extremely powerful and inexpensive piece of software, Klaus is also a skydiver and member of dropzone.com.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[IanHarrop 37]

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Besides writting an extremely powerful and inexpensive piece of software, Klaus is also a skydiver and member of dropzone.com.

And he gives EXCELLENT customer service !!!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[efs4ever 3]

I like your visual. I put up a thread about how I mounted mine.

Care to share your mounting ideas?

Russell M. Webb D 7014
Attorney at Law
713 385 5676
https://www.tdcparole.com

[Eule 0]

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popsjumper> Is anyone going to provide everyone with the proprietary s/w and h/w upgrades required to use it?

billvon> Shouldn't be too much proprietary stuff involved.

Google Earth is free as in beer but not free as in speech. Paralog costs money; so does a Neptune or a portable GPS. Some computers will need an IR interface - probably a USB-to-IR dongle, these days.

You _do_ need a not-completely-ancient computer to get Google Earth to run. It runs on my 400 MHz K6-2 (about equal to a Pentium II) w/96 MB RAM under Linux at home - not very quickly, but it does run. If you are trying to get all this stuff to run on a Packard Bell 486, you might be disappointed.

The way I was thinking that this would work would be for one or a small number of jumpers who already have the GPS, data logger, and Paralog to make some sample dives. Then use Paralog to merge the GPS and data logger files, and output it in Google Earth format. The Google Earth file would be the thing used in training - that way you'd only need Google Earth on the computer you're using. Sort of like a malfunction training video - you only need one guy with a canopy rigged to malfunction and maybe a tertiary reserve, and one video guy to film it; then everybody else can just pop the tape/DVD into the player.

If you wanted to be really, really sneaky, you could do the jumps at one dropzone and add a constant offset to the lat/lon/altitude values in the Google Earth file to "localize" it for another dropzone. The jump tracks would be the same, but they would appear in the airspace over whatever dropzone you select. This might help people visualize their flight pattern with respect to the landmarks at their local DZ. But this would be misleading if the conditions at the two DZs were wildly different - a canopy flight track from a DZ in Colorado in July would probably be pretty different from one in Houston in March.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[Eule 0]

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I like your visual. [....] Care to share your mounting ideas?

Maybe it wasn't clear, but I didn't create the tracks that I linked to in the original post; somebody else did them. I'm still a n00b and strapping extra stuff to myself is probably many, many jumps down the road.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[LouDiamond 1]

What you are proposing requires more effort than is required to just jump a GPS/Data logger and download it to paralog. It would be like spending a dollar to save a dime.The whole process is relatively cheap from the software(price of a jump ticket) to the data logger(which most people already have) to the GPS receiver(which some people already have as well) and the computer(laptop or desktop which everyone reading this already has). If an IR dongle is needed, it's cost is less than a 12 pack of beer. It really is quite simple for anyone to do.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING