BillyVance 34 #51 May 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteIs the chace of an entanglement a factor when cutting away a side by side? - The entanglement factor in cutting away a side-by-side is not as great as with a front-back configuration, but it still does exist. As some things are in skydiving, there are some complicating factors. I should probably rethink my reply, as it may not be the best thing for all circumstances. The best way to perform a clean cutaway from a side-by-side is to split the canopies apart as in a downplane or a semi-downplane. This makes the entanglement potential very low. The earlier poster stated that her two-out occurred on jump # 6. I certainly would not expect an inexperienced jumper to try a move like that, so if the side-by-side were stable it would probably be best to land it. Kevin K. I have landed a stable side-by-side configuration of a Falcon 235 and a Raven II 218 reserve. Although somebody told me at the time that I came close to going into a downplane and should have cut-away, I only had some 50 jumps and was scared shitless. A couple times later on my reserve deployed after I'd gotten my main out and I promptly chopped the main before the reserve had a chance to get out of the bag. I won't take chances with the smaller canopies I use now. But yeah, I was told if you find yourself in a side-by-side, pull them apart before you cutaway to reduce the chances of the risers or other part of the main canopy and lines getting hung up on and fouling up the reserve."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #52 May 7, 2007 Quote Totally my fault. Didn't get a pin check in the plane before exit and my bridle had gotten caught on something so as I was exiting a 6-way, my container was coming open. Started out as a horseshoe and ended up as a twisted up baglock over my head at 11 grand. Needless to say, that mess had to go bye-bye = first chop. Lesson learned: GET A PIN CHECK IN THE PLANE! Glad you were able to learn an important lesson without injury or death, but I am curious about something – Given your jump numbers and time in the sport, it was not all that long ago that you were under the supervision of instructors and coaches. Where did you learn that it is okay to not receive a pin check before exit? I am curious because if they are doing their job, Instructors and Coaches should be teaching the importance of pin checks, yet, there are so many skydivers who do not get them. So where is this learned from? -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #53 May 7, 2007 Quote I was told if you find yourself in a side-by-side, pull them apart before you cutaway to reduce the chances of the risers or other part of the main canopy and lines getting hung up on and fouling up the reserve. You safely landed your Side by Side, "Although somebody told me at the time that I came close to going into a downplane" People say lots of things, and can have perspectives from varying angles of view or opinions that are not always accurate. If a Side by Side can be safely landed, why take the risk of attempting to separate them and chop the main in the first place? If you develop a DP, then chop it, but it makes no sense to risk that entanglement if the configuration can be landed safely. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeth 0 #54 May 7, 2007 Quote Quote Totally my fault. Didn't get a pin check in the plane before exit and my bridle had gotten caught on something so as I was exiting a 6-way, my container was coming open. Started out as a horseshoe and ended up as a twisted up baglock over my head at 11 grand. Needless to say, that mess had to go bye-bye = first chop. Lesson learned: GET A PIN CHECK IN THE PLANE! Glad you were able to learn an important lesson without injury or death, but I am curious about something – Given your jump numbers and time in the sport, it was not all that long ago that you were under the supervision of instructors and coaches. Where did you learn that it is okay to not receive a pin check before exit? I am curious because if they are doing their job, Instructors and Coaches should be teaching the importance of pin checks, yet, there are so many skydivers who do not get them. So where is this learned from? - I did not learn that from my instructors. I was taught to always get a pin check. But I agree that many jumpers don't. I know many "old-timers" myself who never get a pin check, so I suspect that when newbies look around the plane and don't see others asking for checks, they decide they don't want to ask a stranger for one. That was the reason in my case. I was jumping with a new group and I didn't see anyone else ask, so I didn't. (Now I get one every time.) BTW, you and I had a few discussions about this and other topics when this happened, back in September of 2005. "At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #55 May 8, 2007 Not in this century, so far anyway. Two in 1980. One I packed soaking wet. It actually opened just fine, but the right brakeline was swollen and wouldn't release. It was a gusty day and the canopy was unmanageable. Dicked around with it down to 1200 ft before chopping it, which was really stupid. But my round reserve opened quickly. Hurt my shoulder on the landing, so didn't jump again for a couple weeks. Second cutaway was a streamer mal. I was trying a new deployment bag for the first time. Not really sure what I did wrong, but the thing ( a 7 cell) streamered hideously and the deployment bag was destroyed - torn to shreds, never did figure out why. Round reserve (26 ft Security LoPo) opened so hard I had bruises up my chest, neck, and face - looked like I'd been in a fight. But I stood up the landing and was back in the air within 2 hrs with another rig borrowed from a good friend. So far in the four years since I've returned and been jumping 21st century gear, I haven't had a chop yet. I wouldn't mind going for a perfect record and never needing to again - but am ready every time. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertimeunc 0 #56 May 8, 2007 No cutaways yet, but I still train for them. As for the pin checks, it has become part of a "ritual" I go through on the way up to altitude. I never let the plane get more than half way to altitude without getting a pin check. Even though I've been off student status for a while now, there are a few instructors that I jumped with during AFF that will still give me a complete gear check (without me asking) on the way up to altitude. I think it says a lot about them that they're still looking out for a newbie like me. The best things in life are dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timbarrett 0 #57 May 8, 2007 Trapped right brake line..i pulled the toogle down through the loop of excess line..never landed on rear risers and with no wind decided not to find out how badly i might screw that up... ..damn, that skyhook is fast..and it keeps the freebag with it as well!"Work hard, play hard and don't whinge" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #58 May 8, 2007 600+ jumps, severe line twists, not coming out. Cutaway at 2K. No idea of the cause. I can only guess there was a non-visible tension knot trap or something. I was very pissed. My goal of career no cutaways was blown. My sweetheart, a Tri 190, had never done anything like that to me before. I think maybe she was just pissed at me because just the week before I had bought another Tri and put a couple of jumps on it. I think she just wanted to express her displeasure and/or jealousy. We've since had a good heart-to-heart talk and she's being very good to me again. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noluckned 0 #59 May 9, 2007 I borrowed a rig and after opening I discovered that the colour scheme clashed with my jumpsuit, so I had no choice but to cut it away *Disclaimer* The views expressed in the above post may or may not be the result of drunkeness or temporary insanity and should only rarely be construed as the views of the poster himself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #60 May 9, 2007 Well, lets see... 1) Tension knot on a Cruisair which didn't allow the slider to come more than 1/3 down. Screwed with it until 1800' and then chopped. Stood up a 26' lopo. 2) Hooked up my canopy backwards after swapping out canopies for CRW and Mr. Bill dives previously during the day. I thought I was done for the day, but since I was just about to head off to the Army, the DZO graciously bought me a jump... last load of the day... and since I was recovering from a dislocated L shoulder (yes, skydiving related) and it had previously slid my enlistment date 3 mths to recover... I chose to chop it instead of trying to land backwards. Pissed off the DZO and got grounded... it seems he didn't believe me... I left 2 days later to Ft. Jackson. I still think I made the right decision...landing a 26' lopo is safer than landing a ragged out Bruise-air backwards! 3) Line over on a Laser at Raeford. Double manifested back to back loads... Trash packed... rode a snivel for a while, broke loose the cutaway handle and felt it start to buck open, so I dropped the handle and looked up just in time to see my canopy dive below the horizon to my right. Thought that was a bit odd... cut away and dumped my trusty reserve (we were good friends by now). Saddled out about 1200' and stood it up in the middle of the road, just missing the powerlines. 4)Try-outs for the Knights... Tension knot on the right side. Tried to clear it, only to have the brake hang up sending me into spiral. Chopped at 1800' and landed my first square reserve. Over shot the target and learned that a reserve ride is no excuse for not landing on target. 5)intentional, with tertiary belly wart. I needed a repack... Hmm...maybe I should start a thread 'when I should have chopped and didn't...' Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
padskydive 0 #61 May 10, 2007 Yeah it is a matter of time!!! Like you at around your number of jumps - I had been talking to "Sky Gods" about their cut-aways etc... At around my 70 - 80 jumps under my belt at the time - I had this niggling thoughts at the back of my head was that "Your next jump could be a reserve ride". On my 84th jump (4th jump of the day). I remember clearly that as I was pro packing my shiloutte 170 having the same niggling thoughts so I did careful anal packing checking everything & everything was neat. Probably one of my neatest pack job into the D-bag & looked great. Stowed the lines. Went up, great dive to 3,500 for the dump, only to find the canopy on the horzon on fast spinning with line over malfunction. Took deeep breath - Cut-away - reserve. Landed on the peas! - Went to the town & got crate of beers with a huge smile (No longer a reserve virgin!) It's been almost 200 jumps since my last cut-away. Now I'm jumping with Stiletto 150 (140+ jumps) and I have done some really lousy pack jobs on the stiletto and opens just great! Bottom line is that when you have malifunction is that you drew the short straw on that day! IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
