Watching skydive videos pays off on first mal

[Jazzthieve 0]

Last week I had my very first small malfunction. Everything went well on opening, my spectre opened soft and on heading as usual. The first thing I did was check where everyone was, then I released my toggles. But then trouble began, my right toggle was stuck, I couldn't get it loose, in some way I had made a mistake on my packing job. Not only was my toggle stuck but my hand got stuck with it aswell. My spectre started turning to the right but I balanced it by pulling the left toggle level with the right. After some time I got my right hand freed and started trying to get that toggle loose...to no aveil. In the mean time I steered my canopy with my left toggle so I could land on the dz. I started thinking "man this is gonna be a hard landing", there's was little to no wind that day. But then I rememberd those swoopvideos I've seen those guys using their front-risers to make hook turns. So I thought, let me try the back-risers then instead of the front risers, I tried it in the air and thought this might work. So I got myself ready to land, at the same time I would normally flare I grabbed both back-risers and pulled them towards my neck, I made a soft standing landing. Untill then I never even used front or back-risers for anything, nobody even told me I could land like that, so watching videos for some part realy helped me there.

[ematteo 0]

Congratulations on a safe landing.

One thing to know is that it is easier to stall your canopy using rear risers, than with toggles. And it can happen when you are still going pretty fast.

Landing on rears is a life-saving skill. But like everything else, it is smart to play around up high to understand the limits of the maneuver.

Good job saving your skin!

Evan

[baseknut 0]

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Good job saving your skin!

exactly

Step into my (sub)terminal Playground

[AFFI 0]

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nobody even told me I could land like that

[freeflyit 0]

Seriously!

Can you imagine if he didn't level out, started to spin and couldn't cut away properly because his hand was stuck!!!!!!!!!!

Good job with what you did dude

[virgin-burner 1]

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nobody even told me I could land like that

my thoughts.. even i know that! that guy received some bad instructions! well, incomplete but anyway!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[bob.dino 0]

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my thoughts.. even i know that! that guy received some bad instructions! well, incomplete but anyway!

1- Different countries teach different survival skills at different stages
2- Very few students remember everything they've been told.

[gravitywhore 0]

just my opinion but at 40 some odd jumps you should know how to do rear riser turns flares and stalls ...glad you didn't try to land with your fronts .... good job on making it home safe

[AFFI 0]

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2- Very few students remember everything they've been told.

Amen brother..

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[AFFI 0]

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just my opinion but at 40 some odd jumps you should know how to do rear riser turns flares and stalls ...

At 40 jumps I did not know how to do any of those things.
I knew hands up, hands down.

It took me hundreds of jumps to learn how to pilot my canopy. In the training proram I teach in, our graduates know as much as or more than I did at 200 jumps!

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[browny05 0]

Yep congratulations on saving your hide.

As part of the requirements for an 'A' licence here in York, Australia we have to complete and get 'signed off' on a canopy control table.
i.e front riser turns, rear riser turns, dynamic stall and recovery, static stall and recoveries, braked turns, hook turn recovery. etc all at high altitude of course.

Is this not the case elsewhere??

...remember to take it easy.....and if its easy take it home..

[mbondvegas 0]

Good job staying unbroken. I would certainly consider landing on rears on my current canopy, but only because I know it works...not because I think it might work....if I thought I "might" be able to safely land my canopy....I would chop it! Landing too many "might" situations will certainly decrease your odds of becoming old.

More interestingly....You didn't have to do rear riser flares before getting your "A"? Or worse...no one even told you about rear riser flares/turns?

Most instructors I have seen, teach rear riser flares and turns during AFF...on like the second or third jump. You might want to see if your instructors failed to share any other critical skills/knowledge. Other situations might not afford the time to make connections with things you've seen on video or the time to experiment with what you think might work.

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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[virgin-burner 1]

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my thoughts.. even i know that! that guy received some bad instructions! well, incomplete but anyway!

1- Different countries teach different survival skills at different stages
2- Very few students remember everything they've been told.

i think i did rear riser turns on my second or third jump too.. plus negative turns, i have yet to land with rear risers only in order to complete my training and get my license..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[AFFI 0]

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plus negative turns

negative turns???

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[virgin-burner 1]

thats how we call them, pull both steering lines, then let go of one.. you will now turn in the direction of the one still held. of course.. your turn will be much flatter that way.. or so i was told.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[stratostar 5]

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if I thought I "might" be able to safely land my canopy....I would chop it!

Why? In this guys case why not just restow the unstowed brake line and fly the rears and do a good PLF on landing, cuz with both brakes set you won't hit that hard anyway. Your reserve "might" not work, then what? grab grass.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[michalm21 0]

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grab grass.

hahaha, that always cracks me up...

[mbondvegas 0]

[email]

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if I thought I "might" be able to safely land my canopy....I would chop it!

Why? In this guys case why not just restow the unstowed brake line and fly the rears and do a good PLF on landing, cuz with both brakes set you won't hit that hard anyway. Your reserve "might" not work, then what? grab grass.

In this guys case, yes I would land it...but I know what a rear riser flare is. I think you missed the point of my comments. I'm not saying that landing with rears is a bad idea, but a practice of hoping that you can land a mal'd canopy is not a low risk activity. Yes reserve's mal too. Point noted..but when faced with a real "might" be landable canopy and a "might" not work reserve....I'll take the reserve.




So as an instructor, you recommend that your students (in case of a mal) try new things that are similar to something they saw on a video because they think it might work? Interesting.

- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[stratostar 5]

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So as an instructor, you recommend that your students (in case of a mal) try new things that are similar to something they saw on a video because they think it might work? Interesting.

Where is it I said do shit you see in a video (not FJC vids), on youtude or other online crap?

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So as an instructor, you recommend that your students

um NO, I don't teach advanced survivial skills to FJS's or unlicensed students, my comment was pointed to you and advanced jumper who said they would just chop a minor pain in the ass issue.

Let me explain it to you again. How about using you head and think thru an minor problem instead of over reacting and just cutting away, should you have the alti to do so. One quick and simple fix is to restow the unjammed toggle and fly your canopy using rears and doing a good PLF, you could even skip the flair and do a good PLF to not risk a stall by flairing the canopy with both brakes stowed. Hell for that matter you could even fly holding the unstowed one, however it only takes a second to restow, been there, done that, more then once.

A broken line, or broken stearing line or stuck toggle is NOT a major mal requiring you to just say fuck it and chop as long as the canopy is flying, unless you are down and dirty!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[mbondvegas 0]

Wow that is a lot of angry looking bold for a guy who lives in Hawaii.
I was addressing this from the perspective presented by the original poster.

We have had a misunderstanding.

- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[Floats18 0]

I'm a student of Stratostar's and I landed a canopy on rears at about 60 jumps a few years ago because of a broken brake line.

I was instructed on both flaring w/ rears and the lowered stall point on rears well before I had to use it to save my ass.

I believe that all students should be instructed to use all control points (including harness input) well before they may NEED to use them.

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[stratostar 5]

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Wow that is a lot of angry looking bold for a guy who lives in Hawaii.

Sorry I haven't had my daily fix of girls in grass skirts on a windy day.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Floats18 0]

Whatever you've been angry since the last time the petro truck stop made you stop soliciting your body to the truckers that are just there for the biscuits and gravy.

For the last time dude... no one wants to pay 5 bucks for that

Dirty old dudes.....

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[stratostar 5]

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[AFFI 0]

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In this guys case, yes I would land it...but I know what a rear riser flare is. I think you missed the point of my comments. I'm not saying that landing with rears is a bad idea, but a practice of hoping that you can land a mal'd canopy is not a low risk activity. Yes reserve's mal too. Point noted..but when faced with a real "might" be landable canopy and a "might" not work reserve....I'll take the reserve.

So as an instructor, you recommend that your students (in case of a mal) try new things that are similar to something they saw on a video because they think it might work? Interesting.

Trying to re-stow the one un-stowed toggle is a possible viable solution, as are some other potentially conceivable solutions to such a situation that do not involve trusting a reserve. Provided as was previously mentioned there is sufficient altitude and sufficient altitude awareness while the jumper made such attempts to correct the problem with the main and improvise a solution. And as was previously mentioned, the level of experience of the jumper may play a significant factor.

Question is, which course of action has the odds stacked in the jumpers favor?

Looking at the history of deaths in say the last 20 years from skydivers loosing track of their altitude as opposed to skydivers dying from a correctly used malfunctioning reserve, which category has the highest numbers of fatalities? I am not going to go to the statistics page for the last 20 years and count on my fingers, but I would strongly speculate that there has been a substantial amount more that fit into the lost altitude awareness category as opposed to the reserve malfunction category.

I recall a few years ago at the WFFC, there was a skydiver who lost altitude awareness trying to correct a problem with the main, cutaway too low and died as a result, then the very next day the exact same thing happened. One skydiver had around 65 jumps and the other had a couple thousand.
So level of experience did not stack the odds of survival in the more experienced jumpers favor. Gravity was equally unforgiving to both of the dead skydivers.
This illustrates that regardless of experience level, it is easy to loose track of altitude while dealing with a problem.

As an instructor, I would recommend to students I train to follow the guidelines of the training they are receiving as students, and additionally, I would recommend to any skydiver of any experience level that while it is possible to correct a plethora of situations, if the decision must be made to trust the reserve, to make that decision with sufficient altitude for the reserve to work and before altitude awareness is lost.

Personally, I do not allow the thought of a reserve malfunction to ever enter my mind as part of the equation as to whether I should use it or not as this may cloud my judgment and cause me to second guess my training.

Of course, I have a very limited amount of experience as a skydiver, even less as an instructor so I could be totally wrong.
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Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…