Perspective

[dorbie 0]

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>Some of us have seen other sports in different parts of the world strangled by over regulation . . .

Which sports? What led to the over-regulation?

Aye, what sports/regions were you thinking about, Dorbie? Within the US, it's pretty uncommon. Most regulation is imposed by the operators, not by the government. Key exception coming to mind is Laguna Beach and their silly ticketing of divers for 'safety violations' like soloing and no snorkels.

When I wrote that I was thinking specifically about SCUBA in certain organizations in the UK and not government regulation & contrasting that with my experience with PADI. The overregulation happens through creeping good intentions with helpings of grandfathered old farts on committies setting rules. Add some vestigial outmoded bullshit like snorkel cover and you have the makings of a bunch of crusty carmudgeons killing a great sport.

The comparrison is not a direct one but the prognosis is the same. This stuff happens in degrees and ballance is important, dusting off the hoary old chestnut of safety to justify regulatuion is easy, but proposals should be demonstrably targeted and effective.

[dorbie 0]

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I think that lacks the required focus on the real problem.

I'm curious as to what you think the real problem is.

It's not missing the peas.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Since when is hitting the peas important in skydiving? What's important is walking away from each jump that we make. Who cares if you landed in the peas, on the beer line, swooped the pond or just landed in an open area. All that really matter is being able to walk away so that you can make that next jump.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[davelepka 4]

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I'm curious as to what you think the real problem is.

Newer jumpers who have their heads so far up their ass that they can neither hear what people are trying to tell them, nor see their impending impact with the ground.

Of course, I could be wrong..........but I'm not.

[dorbie 0]

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Since when is hitting the peas important in skydiving? What's important is walking away from each jump that we make. Who cares if you landed in the peas, on the beer line, swooped the pond or just landed in an open area. All that really matter is being able to walk away so that you can make that next jump.

I said it's *NOT* missing the peas, which some experts have proposed as one of the tests taken before progression.

geeze what's the point.

But I'm glad you agree with me it's a fucking stupid way to judge safety under a canopy, maybe you should take that issue up with the proposer, and not the person who's objected to it all along.

[dorbie 0]

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I'm curious as to what you think the real problem is.

Newer jumpers who have their heads so far up their ass that they can neither hear what people are trying to tell them, nor see their impending impact with the ground.

Of course, I could be wrong..........but I'm not.

I congratulate you on your rational debate. Having never seen me jump, we should all just kiss your ass and put up with whatever regulation the vocal minority sees fit to impose.

Note to anyone else who might consider standing in the way of this freight train, it ain't worth the insults.

[stratostar 5]

Sometime you have to accept the fact that you can't tell a idiot their a idiot!
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you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[LouDiamond 1]

Let me remind everyone involved in this thread that everyone is entitled to their say and opinion but you must keep it civil and all forum rules are still in effect. Don't ruin a productive thread with pointless name calling and inuendos.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[billvon 2,402]

> Newer jumpers who have their heads so far up their ass

Would you people cut it out! I swear, there are people on here who would get bent out of shape and start calling each other names if someone said the sky was blue.

"But it's not always blue"
"It's technically not blue at all"
"Obviously you've never even heard of a mission called Pathfinder"

[dorbie 0]

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Sometime you have to accept the fact that you can't tell a idiot their a idiot!
~

More intelligent justification for regulation. I'm really warming to your persuassive abilities.

This is ridiculous and purile, there's two aspects here, how I jump and my opinion on your regulation, you just want to humiliate any dissenters by calling them unsafe idiots because they take issue with your proposed rules, irrespective of how or what they jump.

[stratostar 5]

we should all just kiss your ass and put up with whatever regulation the vocal minority sees fit to impose. (quote)

No but you should show/have a little more respect of the people who have been in this sport for a long time and cleaned up many a mess of young piss ant know it all jumpers over the years , which you seem to come off like one of those type's.
Most of the people who are in favor of a WL BSR are tired of going to the accdent site of friends and those who didn't heed good advice to slow down ect.
And for you to keep going on the way you have shows you have not been around the sport very long or been one of the people who get to clean up the mess, just because you haven't turned low and hit the peas now don't mean your not going to fuck up down the road, so what is wrong with learning more
and learning from the older wiser jumpers who have been in this sport longer then most likely be for you were born. If you live long enough to jump 15 to 20 years you might see things from their side of the fence! Then again maybe NOT.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[dorbie 0]

Stratostar, I respect you and many other experienced jumpers immensely. I mean that sincerely.

Maybe I come across as some wannabe bedsheet pilot, I'm not. If I push against the details of some proposals don't assume that I'm entirely on the opposite side of the debate objecting to all reasonable controls and training I'm not.

And my opinion is what it is, I make no secret of my experience level, this stuff affects me and the generalizations used to justify it don't all apply to me. A statistic is just that one guy in a thousand used as the example to regulate and restrict everyone else for their alleged benefit.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Having never seen me jump

You're right, most of us haven't seen you jump just as most people haven't see me jump. But unless I'm mistaken, we're not singling you out and talking about your current canopy control skills. We're talking about what is the best course of action to take to help this sport now and in the future. The evolution of the canopy will continue to progress to a point where the technology is above the skill and experience level of most people. The only way to counteract this is to start building the mindset into people that they can't just jump any old high performance wing they want just because they see someone else jumping one. The up and coming canopy pilot needs to seek further canopy control coaching from qualified instructors throughout their entire skydiving careers. Yes this will cost time and money. But people will be better canopy pilots and the sport as a whole will be better off. So while this BSR may seem like a restrictive bad idea to some (and yes I don't think it is perfect), it has got to be a better option than what exists right now.

By the way, today I just arrainged some more high performance canopy coaching in late February from the world class PST pilot who has already instructed me in the past. I just started flying a new high performance wing and I want to get some coaching to ensure that I'm not developing any bad habits early on in the game with this canopy. Yes it's going to cost me a fair amount of money. But if this up and coming coaching session is anything close to the previous coaching sessions I received, then it will be well worth the time, money and effort. And if there are any other up and coming canopy pilots who are also serious about doing things the right way, they will be talking with the more experienced people they know to set out a plan instead of trying to survive through trial and error.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[crewkeith 0]

is the problem with regulation that your worried you dont have the skill to test out to the canopy you want to jump??? im over the limits they propose but the day i cant make my canopy do what i want i guess ill just sell it and get a navigator 260 or something. your argument seems to be these people dont know you or your abillities. they propose to put that judgment in the hands of someone that does know you. or does that make you nervous too?? come on, man just accept the rules, test out of them and get over your self.

one more thing, move the peas and see if you still hit them. people get real reliant on landmarks to navigate the landing area.


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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[crewkeith 0]

ive seen you jump your scary


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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[dorbie 0]

Couldn't agree more although I'm just a beginner. I made my second attempt to reschedule training with a similar canopy control coach last week for skills assessment and general training (whatever he thinks I need). When he's back from PIA & tour I hope to benefit for his expertise and training. I know I need it. It should be money well spent.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I made my second attempt to reschedule training with a similar canopy control coach last week for skills assessment and general training

Excellent. This is what we want to hear from not only you (and me) but more people as well. Plus don't be surprised once you start learning more and building experience that maybe just maybe your views on this topic will change. I know mine did.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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ive seen you jump you're scary

Yes scaringly good for my low jump numbers and only being in the sport a few years right. That was a joke people ... don't take this post serious. I'm only as good as my last landing.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[crewkeith 0]

hey didnt you almost hit a truck on that one???


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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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hey didnt you almost hit a truck on that one???

Not even close. Besides it was either aim for flying over the truck or aim for the people congesting the landing area and not paying attention to the people still in the air. But if I ever do take the truck out, then you can call me "Ram Tough Jr".

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[dorbie 0]

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is the problem with regulation that your worried you dont have the skill to test out to the canopy you want to jump??? im over the limits they propose but the day i cant make my canopy do what i want i guess ill just sell it and get a navigator 260 or something. your argument seems to be these people dont know you or your abillities. they propose to put that judgment in the hands of someone that does know you. or does that make you nervous too?? come on, man just accept the rules, test out of them and get over your self.
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No it doesn't make me nervous although that was suggested in another thread where I articulated my objections in detail.

What rules?

[crewkeith 0]

uh oh some one aint gonna be happy you brought up ram tuff .



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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[crewkeith 0]

man this proposal aint a big thing if it comes up i'll vote for it. hell man you want the faa to make rules??? mains will be like ten grand. self regulation versus faa regulation?? yeah ill take a few little rules to help keep people safe.


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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[stratostar 5]

I'm only as good as my last landing. (quote)

We're all only as good as our last landing!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[stratostar 5]

Maybe I come across as some wannabe bedsheet pilot,(quote)

No that is not what I ment about you, and I ment not to just try to bash you, you can be a damm good pilot and still fuck up bad, it takes a long time to experience all the difference situations that can happen in flight and landings, I had a friend who for years jumped at the same dz, he knew where the power lines were, but one day he forgot or didn't see them (but he knew for years where they were)
that day he died, it can happen to any one, even you. So don't ever fool your self into thinking different, one must be on your toes at all times on the dz and really on it landing off the dz.
Good luck with the coaching.


~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo