Andy9o8 0 #26 October 27, 2013 I don't think you realize just how important style is to skydiving. Hell, back in the day, they had an entire discipline dedicated to it. Anyhow, bad style won't exactly cause a hard opening, but it can make you deserve one. Welcome to the circus! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMan 0 #27 October 28, 2013 I'm not writing off style as unimportant, I'm writing off the ridiculous notion of emasculating someone based of their choice of socks. Maybe its time I welcomed you both to 2013 where ankle socks & low-cuts are common footwear amongst men who play sports, especially amongst runners and bicyclists. Next thing I know you'll call Usian Bolt a pussy because he didn't have socks up to his knees, get a grip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #28 October 28, 2013 Sigh. My entire Post #26 was tongue in cheek, as in: humor. The only one who missed it was you. Take a breath, we're all on your side, including me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #30 October 28, 2013 Quote Interesting the main side I hangs on to him thru line stretch. None of my business, though... Ding, ding, ding... FTW!!! Mainside JM wearing GoPro, and attempting to "stay" in order to catch opening-shot in the first place, to me too = FAIL. FWIW.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMan 0 #31 October 28, 2013 What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #32 October 28, 2013 QuoteInteresting the main side I hangs on to him thru line stretch. None of my business, though... (Edit): Sounds like that isn't how one is taught in the AFFI program. I don't know much about precise standards in different countries for their AFF and AFF style programs, but there isn't much of a difference between maintaining a grip through bag liftoff, vs. waiting just slightly longer for line stretch. By the time it is clear the bag has lifted off properly, very soon the canopy is at line stretch. At least where I'm from (Canada & PFF program), I learned to maintain a grip on the student until the student is pulled away from you by the opening. You do not leave the student before then. So to me, the stills from the video appeared normal. Standards differ and opinions vary... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #33 October 28, 2013 Quote there isn't much of a difference between maintaining a grip through bag liftoff, vs. waiting just slightly longer for line stretch. By the time it is clear the bag has lifted off properly, very soon the canopy is at line stretch. At least where I'm from (Canada & PFF program), I learned to maintain a grip on the student until the student is pulled away from you by the opening In the US the standard is for the main side to leave once the PC is extracted from the pouch, and the reserve side maintains the grip until, like you said, the student is pulled away from you by the opening. The idea is that two instructors can create enough of a burble to slow a PC, or otherwise disrupt the deployment. Once the main PC is gone, the main side instructor no longer has a deployment device on their side, so they exit. The reserve side will ride through the deployment, and in the case of a PC in tow, they can yank the reserve handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Di0 1 #34 October 28, 2013 Why you don't ask your instructors? They were there, they saw your opening, they know what happened better than anybody can here with a few pics of the sequence. It's particularly hard to judge something like the force of an opening from a bunch of still pictures, I think. Just as an FIY, it might not even have been anything related with the opening itself, it might have been a harness not perfectly fitted to your body (it happens, with rental student gear), or straps way too tight (it happens, when you gear up yourself the first few jumps and you tend to pull all the straps as hard and tight as you possible can), so a perfectly normal opening gave you the impression (and bruises that come with it) of a hard opening. It happens and once you get your own rig, everything will feel soooo much more comfortable. Or it was indeed a hard opening. Who knows? :D But congratulation on your first AFF!I'm standing on the edge With a vision in my head My body screams release me My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #35 October 28, 2013 QuoteI'm about 5'11" so my legs can't be that short? I think that "short legs" in this case means that your legs are bent back a bit farther than they should be ideally. That's very normal for students.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wasatchrider 0 #36 October 28, 2013 Di0Why you don't ask your instructors? They were there, they saw your opening, they know what happened better than anybody can here with a few pics of the sequence. It's particularly hard to judge something like the force of an opening from a bunch of still pictures, I think. Just as an FIY, it might not even have been anything related with the opening itself, it might have been a harness not perfectly fitted to your body (it happens, with rental student gear), or straps way too tight (it happens, when you gear up yourself the first few jumps and you tend to pull all the straps as hard and tight as you possible can), so a perfectly normal opening gave you the impression (and bruises that come with it) of a hard opening. It happens and once you get your own rig, everything will feel soooo much more comfortable. Or it was indeed a hard opening. Who knows? :D But congratulation on your first AFF! or straps to loose will do it too. If it was his first opening how does he konw it was a hard opening?BASE 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GooniesKid 0 #37 October 29, 2013 was it a hard opening? can't tell by the pics really. However consider this. When i did my first AFF1 jump i remember on opening telling myself "oh man, this is a lot of G's (probably only going up o 3 G's or so" and yelling out "arrrgghhh f...........K!!!". It was a "hard" opening,,considering it was my first time my body has experienced a parachute opening going terminal. But after the 2nd jump it I got used to it because i knew what to expect. A "real/true" hard opening is a different matter. I know people that have broken ribs, back, etc from a hard opening that grounded them for months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMan 0 #38 October 30, 2013 How common is this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wasatchrider 0 #39 October 30, 2013 TheManHow common is this? I've never had a hard opening even when I free packed my base canopy with a large mesh slider it was just brisk to say the least but not sure what people consider hard.BASE 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #40 October 30, 2013 QuoteHow common is this? It's not that common. In 10 years I've known 3-4 people who had seriously hard openings but none of them were severely injured. They suffered bloody lips, soreness, stiffness headaches for a week or so. Bad injuries *can* happen though. Goonies must know a hell of a lot of jumpers if he knows a lot of people hurt that badly.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GooniesKid 0 #41 October 30, 2013 I dont' know how often it happens...perhaps uspa would have some database or statistic on this. but as an example I know of 3 seasoned jumpers (and by seasoned I define that as D rating, jump regularly, have thousands of jumps under their belt) who have experienced a hard opening approximately within a 6 month timespan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutellaontoast 0 #42 October 31, 2013 QuoteHow common is this?Dunno numbers, but I fucked my back up proper on a hard opening. Years of healing. People definitely wear out their backs faster/more often if they skydive. Shit's bad for you man!Don't let the fact that I sound like I think that I know what I'm talking about fool you. I know that I don't know what I'm talking about Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMan 0 #43 November 1, 2013 Just finished my Cat B jump today and the opening was way smoother this time. Definitely had a rough opening on the first jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corpkid 0 #44 December 7, 2013 Andy9o8 Quote Did your instructors say it was a hard opening? Exactly my thought when I read the thread title: it's his first jump, what's his point of reference? If the insides of his thighs aren't lovely shades of purple, it isn't a hard opening. In my case, on my 2nd AFF jump (yesterday) I had a nasty hard opening in DeLand (of all places) under a 280 student rig. First pull was butter smooth and very enjoyable. Second one had me seeing stars for a few seconds. I was actually worried I snapped a line or something. Landed it fine (in much pain) but both my inner thighs are bruised like hell and hurt pretty bad today. I had great body position (2 instructors holding me plus they said it was "a picture perfect dive" so that kinda pissed me off. Told the packers and they kinda shrugged it off. Tomorrow I'm going to show them these wonderfully painful welts/bruises that have developed. :) Anything I can like wrap around my leg where the leg straps are to add a little padding as I'm NOT looking forward to my next pull given those very sore bruises . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #45 December 7, 2013 QuoteTold the packers and they kinda shrugged it off. Tomorrow I'm going to show them these wonderfully painful welts/bruises that have developed. :) Look, you've already made your point to them, so think twice. Canopy deployment is still an excercise in controlled chaos, so maybe it was a packing issue, or maybe it was simply random. You're new there, and DeLand is a great DZ. At any DZ, think carefully about putting appropriate "balance" in how you put yourself across, especially when you're new there, especially when you're a student. In the meantime - learn how to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoCalJumper 0 #46 December 7, 2013 corpkidAnything I can like wrap around my leg where the leg straps are to add a little padding as I'm NOT looking forward to my next pull given those very sore bruises . If you are using an adjustable student rig and have slim thighs it is possible that the leg straps are sliding lower on your thighs than you may think while on your belly in free-fall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrDom 0 #47 December 7, 2013 Andy9o8QuoteTold the packers and they kinda shrugged it off. Tomorrow I'm going to show them these wonderfully painful welts/bruises that have developed. :) Look, you've already made your point to them, so think twice. Canopy deployment is still an excercise in controlled chaos, so maybe it was a packing issue, or maybe it was simply random. You're new there, and DeLand is a great DZ. At any DZ, think carefully about putting appropriate "balance" in how you put yourself across, especially when you're new there, especially when you're a student. In the meantime - learn how to pack. There is nothing more annoying than having a point made and then made again later. Your packers get it. Most packers I've met (small number mind you) take a lot of pride in the perfection of their work. As long as they arent rushed they tend to be VERY aware of the fact that the things they do are critical. I'm sure whoever packed your rig probably went home and asked him/herself if they did something wrong. Your point was made, take a few days to let it heal and get back up there. If it really bothers you, learn to pack and DIY the deal. But these can be random... a good friend of mine who packs his every jump for his last 500 or so jumps has had 2 hard openings HE packed. Hope you're ok, but go easy on those hard working packers.You are not the contents of your wallet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoCalJumper 0 #48 December 7, 2013 DrDom Hope you're ok, but go easy on those hard working packers. While I was a student many years ago I noticed that the student rig due to the adjustable laterals didn't quite fit me as well as I would have liked. In free-fall the leg straps moved much lower than I though, nearly mid thigh. I noticed this from pictures afterwards and I was concerned about breaking a femur upon opening. It wasn't the pack job. I have slim thighs. Although the fit of the rig felt fine standing up, on my belly it was a different story. On occasion back then I had the same type of bruising although not as painful as you describe but it was due to a few inches of travel in the fit of the rig while on my belly during the opening. If the bruising is greater than the width of the leg straps this is due to movement during opening. 5 inches of abrasive bruising could be due to this reason alone and not a bad pack job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisD 0 #49 December 7, 2013 Andy9o8 Quote Told the packers and they kinda shrugged it off. Tomorrow I'm going to show them these wonderfully painful welts/bruises that have developed. :) Look, you've already made your point to them, so think twice. Canopy deployment is still an excercise in controlled chaos, so maybe it was a packing issue, or maybe it was simply random. You're new there, and DeLand is a great DZ. At any DZ, think carefully about putting appropriate "balance" in how you put yourself across, especially when you're new there, especially when you're a student. In the meantime - learn how to pack. With the number of jumps he has they are not going to let him pack. Just sayin,...But here is something that when you let out the cat from the bag about asking about night life and such, you have the time, learn to pack with that time, spend that free time packing. So much of this issue is packing that andy has the most poignant point about it and that being you have much more control and are able to judge the subtle changes yo can make and get the immediate feedback. Sorry to hear about this, it does happen rather randomly sometimes. But there are those of us that fully believe that it's mostly the how of packing that does this. On the other hand I hold the position that sometimes some of these larger student canopy's open fast more so than a w/l of .85 don't know why, just my opinion. Try a different canopy and see what happens.... CBut what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corpkid 0 #50 December 7, 2013 Thanks all. Just to make it clear, I wasn't giving anyone a hard time. Just mentioned it (the girl who packed my rig is a friend from the wind tunnel). No hard feelings and she suggested some ways to adjust the straps for a more comfortable opening. Just did level 3 today and while still sore, the opening was much more "soft" and I was flying on my own when I pulled. Had a really fun and enjoyable ride down from 5k. I'm looking forward to packing my own chute and have been watching people pack during all my downtime at the DZ (there was a nasty incident in the student landing zone in Deland today that kept me grounded for a few hours. Spent all my time in the packing hanger watching. Level 4 and (hopefully) 5 tomorrow! :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites