talk to your instructors! (help a retarded moron)

[klingeme 0]

When I answer Emails at work to jumpers with little experience, I will guide them in their decisions, but almost every time, I end the discussion with a statement similar to "Take everything I said speak to your instructors who know you far better than I do" The people who have watched every one of your jumps to this point know far more about you than I do sitting at the office here in Deland. I have my experience (both jumping and professionally) behind my words, but your instructors know you personally and can better guide you than I can. If you do not trust the instructors at your dropzone to answer your questions through your first couple hundred jumps, you should find yourself a new dropzone. The instructors job is not completed after they sign off your little yellow card. They should be at your disposal to answwer the questions you have first couple hundred jumps.

Mark "Please talk to your instructors before making a decision" Klingelhoefer
United Parachute Technologies

[virgin-burner 1]

and this is a perfectly good solution everybody should be able to live with! even me..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[piisfish 135]

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i'i almost landed in the stream next to the dropzone, close to the plane ( think of an RSL then!! anyone can say chop-chop!? )

you apparently still need edumacation on RSL's

do you know you can "de-activate" them ?

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and, uhm, yea, i fucking party harder than all of you!!

but we still have our driving license

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[virgin-burner 1]

i know you can de-activate. get that little hook-thingy of close to your risers on your harness. i dont think you'd be able to do so if you were being half-dragged on a windy day. and you know they are not so uncommon..

in for a drinking-game!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[mjosparky 3]

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well, whaddaya guys n'gals think!? do i sound like a retarded moron as i have been called?




Why , yes you do.

Jim, I think you are wrong. I think he sounds like a crybaby that got his feeling hurt. And his 10,000-jump mentor is the one that is the retarded moron for handing out such shit advice.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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[piisfish 135]

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i know you can de-activate. get that little hook-thingy of close to your risers on your harness. i dont think you'd be able to do so if you were being half-dragged on a windy day. and you know they are not so uncommon..
in for a drinking-game!?

unhook the thingy BEFORE landing, once you know you have a good canopy, you are in clear airspace and you know wind is strong.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[virgin-burner 1]

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well, whaddaya guys n'gals think!? do i sound like a retarded moron as i have been called?




Why , yes you do.

Jim, I think you are wrong. I think he sounds like a crybaby that got his feeling hurt. And his 10,000-jump mentor is the one that is the retarded moron for handing out such shit advice.

Sparky

so it seems you and bozo are the typical internet-skygods that know better anyway. just proves my point. again, your voices are not the ones of reason.

i know hardly anyone here that jumps an RSL or a skyhook.

instead of making smart-ass comments, you could participate in the discussion. i gave my reasons, but all you do is pat each others back or flame on me. yea, right, i'm a crybaby with hurt feelings. i'm sure your skygod-mentality wont allow you speak normally to such a low-time jumper as me..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

when exactly is that? just after you have an open canopy, stowed your slider and loosened your chest strap at say 7-800 meters? or right before getting into your landing pattern at say 300 meters? if it was the later, and a windgust collapses your wing, what then?

for me, the risks just dont outweigh the benefits.. you know the dropzone has some traffic. helis coming in and taking off regularly. you know the winds change often, not only intensity, but also direction. most of the times the uppers are 90° to the conditions on the ground. always quite turbulent around 3-400 meters..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[piisfish 135]

there is no "exact" altitude...
choose when it is most suitable and pick your poison.

funny to read your above post, it sounds like you are a "pro-RSL" not wanting to disconnect it.

only had to disconnect the RSL on the tandem when the winds picked up and "chopping the main canopy after landing" was an option I was thinking about.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[virgin-burner 1]

i have never said i was against it!

but i do like the skyhook better.. when i saw that video, my jaw hit the floor! and having your freebag connected to the canopy is kinda cool, otherwise another couple of hundred bucks out the window in probably a lot of cases..

it seems, its nearly impossible to have a fruitful conversation on here. at least the skygods at my dropzone take their time to talk things through. they might be wrong, but make more sense and dont bash around on someone asking for advice. kinda sad, uh!?

oh, but they have way more jumpnumbers, so they must be right!!!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[wmw999 2,123]

I have lots and lots of jumps on windy days, both with and without an RSL. Never, ever have I had to cut away.

Among other things, with a square parachute over your head, if you either drop your toggles or just return them to the keepers immediately upon landing, your canopy won't go behind you and drag you, it'll just stay up there flying while you decide how best to deal with the situation (i.e. face it, and use a riser to turn it into the ground when you're braced and ready). Water is another case, but if you're in the water, opening your reserve isn't going to be much of a problem -- it has to be repacked anyway, and it's for darn sure not going to deploy.

I'm not that big, and it works for me. It should work for you.

Cameras or CRW and RSLs don't work real well together. I figure my chances of fucking up by cutting away too low to get to my reserve in time are greater than my chances of landing in front of a moving train or moving water and having to cut away.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[millertimeunc 0]

I've got a friend who had a cutaway on a rig equipped with a skyhook. The way he tells it, the cables had just barely cleared the loop that holds the risers on and he was already under a good reserve. Pretty cool system.

The best things in life are dangerous.

[peregrinerose 0]

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I've got a friend who had a cutaway on a rig equipped with a skyhook. The way he tells it, the cables had just barely cleared the loop that holds the risers on and he was already under a good reserve. Pretty cool system.

I have a skyhook (though I hope I never need to actually use the system). The reason I got it was that it eliminates the issue with traditional RSLs... if a riser with a standard RSL breaks, your reserve deploys into a streaming main. Skyhook has the Collins Lanyard, which eliminates this problem.

It makes infinitely more sense to me to have an RSL and disconnect it as needed (camera, CRW, landing in a roaring river) than to not have one at all and not even have the option of having it hooked up.

V-B, you didn't really give any specific reasons why you are uncomfortable with an RSL. I'd strongly suggest you sit down with a rigger and 3 rigs... one with Skyhook, one with non Skyhook RSL, and one without an RSL. Learn the differences between them, spend a lot of time on the mechanics of it.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

thanks wendy, now that is information that is useable!
other scenario, what if horseshoe, say bridle wrapped around your arm or leg or otherwise somehow snagged?

i dont know why, but somehow having a baglock or a PC in tow entered my mind could be an issue. if i think about it, i cant see a problem there tough..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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I've got a friend who had a cutaway on a rig equipped with a skyhook. The way he tells it, the cables had just barely cleared the loop that holds the risers on and he was already under a good reserve. Pretty cool system.

I have a skyhook (though I hope I never need to actually use the system). The reason I got it was that it eliminates the issue with traditional RSLs... if a riser with a standard RSL breaks, your reserve deploys into a streaming main. Skyhook has the Collins Lanyard, which eliminates this problem.

It makes infinitely more sense to me to have an RSL and disconnect it as needed (camera, CRW, landing in a roaring river) than to not have one at all and not even have the option of having it hooked up.

V-B, you didn't really give any specific reasons why you are uncomfortable with an RSL. I'd strongly suggest you sit down with a rigger and 3 rigs... one with Skyhook, one with non Skyhook RSL, and one without an RSL. Learn the differences between them, spend a lot of time on the mechanics of it.

my main concern is having the bridle somehow snagged, wrapped around whatever. i will sit down with my rigger, "unfortunately" thats mr. skygod..
i repeat again, having seen the video of the skyhook-cutaway is fucking stunning!



oh, and please stop bashing my mentor.. (not directed at you rose) its ok to disagree, but dont say he's an idiot! i wouldnt say he's my best friend, still i respect his advice. i'd probably still keep on cratering the landing zone if it wasnt for him..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[peregrinerose 0]

Ok, so lets address RSL and horseshoe....

Remember your FJC, you have some part of your main system still attached to some portion of your body. The rule is try 2x/2 seconds to clear it, then cut away and deploy the reserve. Whether you have an RSL or no RSL, you still will be firing a reserve into a wad of shit that is still attached to your body.

Instead of worrying about horseshoes and RSLs, it's better to turn your attention to preventing horseshoe mals to begin with. If you're freeflying, do it with freefly appropriate gear. Maintain your gear well (replacing closing loops, maintain BOC, closing loop short enough, routing bridle/pin properly while packing), protect your hackey/handles when moving in the aircraft, and do at least 3 gear checks prior to every skydive (when donning gear, before boarding, and before exiting the aircraft).

If Mr. Skygod is a good rigger/instructor, it doesn't matter what his opinion is of RSLs/Skyhooks, he will be able to explain how everything works in a logical, factual manner. I tend to lean in favor of having one (even had my last rig modified to add an RSL), but when I teach, I present the facts, how it works, and discuss pros/cons.

One concern I had was you said in another post that RSLs simplifies emergency procedures, by only requiring one handle to be pulled. That's not true. Your EPs are exactly the same. ALWAYS pull both handles, no exceptions. I had an RSL on my chop, but still landed with both handles in my hand. That way your EPs are always consistent, you don't have to think "I disconnecte my RSL for this jump since I have camera, so need to pull both handles this time"... you always practice and mentally rehearse pulling both for consistency sake.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

no concern about the EP's, of course i would pull both handles. i rather meant to say that pulling the cutaway then automatically deploys the reserve, wether its a skyhook or RSL. that was more of a hypothetical or rethoric remark.
of course, when i pack i make sure everything is tucked away. before i board, i'll check my reserve pin and if the cable runs free, my cypres, my 3-ring and bridle-/closing loop. i do a fake cutaway-reserve-pull. on the plane, i cover my hackey when moving inside a plane. short before exit, again i do everything as above, cant check my reserve-pin, but am able to feel if the main-pin flap is still in place. my rig is not the newest, surely not the perfect freeflyrig, but it holds up to it. that mainflap is my major concern as the tuck-away thing is relatively short. if i'd be moving to much against whatever with enough force, i could probably dislocate it, so i check that. usually i do a couple of EP's on every flight.

uhm yea, almost forgot, i also make double sure my cutaway and reserve handles are both in the place i need to be. that usually includes moving the pack of smokes as that seems to get in the way. cant leave 'um on the ground, damn skydivers think they're free to take when i leave 'um on the table. leave the smokes down more often tough, as they really seem to collide with my reserve handle. might save my life someday, wouldnt be worth a pack of smokes..

we have our boogie coming up, i'm sure someone has RSL or a skyhook and will show me..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[stratostar 5]

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RSLs simplifies emergency procedures, by only requiring one handle to be pulled.

Why do you waste your time when clearly this person has all the answers already provided by one Mr. Bigtimeskygodknowitall who teaches RSL's are for uneducated retards, what sound advice to offer up to a green ass young punk who then repeats this misinformation as fact not only on the DZ.com, but to others as well.

Hey but what do I know, I'm only one of the many internet skygods

PA removed by slotperfect, get a clue!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[kkeenan 13]

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... i was an idiot. again, nobody's perfect all the time..

Actually, you seem to be exceeding the quota in that department.

From your experience level and posting history, it would seem that you may benefit from more reading and less writing. Hopefully, you will consider this to be the friendly advice it is meant to be, and not start crying about being "Personally Attacked".

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Baksteen 84]

*shakes head*

As an experienced skydiver it's YOUR responsibility to talk to newbies like Chris and myself in order to prevent us from making the same mistakes you did when you were just new.
So kudos to peregrinerose who DOES know this.

Or failing that, at least read the whole thread before degrading it into a flamefest.

If your final statement wasn't a PA, I could smack it right back at ya.

(edited to remove quoted PA)

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[virgin-burner 1]

dont worry mate, selective reading (or not) seems to be prevalent with those internet skygods. they rather like to call us tourists for no good reason and otherwise only have shit to say. the one sound person on here seems to be peregrinerose only. maybe a few others, but they have stayed out for the most part for whatever reasons they have. i rather appreciate them saying nothing at all, than others getting verbally abusive.

actually its rather amusing to read those fucking stupid replies. in a PM i heard that the one going on strongest about it is represented in the american swooping championship. tell you what dude, you're doing a darn good job at representing your own goddam country! so much for that..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[peregrinerose 0]

Don't forget to pull all your handles for real on the ground every time you get your reserve repack... it'll teach you quite a bit about your own gear just to do it on the ground. I try to have all my rigging clients do just that. It gives them faith that I know what I'm doing when that pilot chute goes launching off their backs, plus gives them a little experience with their own handles.

Another drill is to do a solo jump sometime and do nothing but touch handles while in freefall (careful not to snag/pull them!!), they are in a different place than when standing/sitting. Do it again under canopy, again, they are in a different place.


Strato, I'd rather treat V-B and other newbies with respect and have a 50/50 chance of teaching them a thing or two or give them fodder to ask questions to their own instructors than treat them like they are total nitwits and having a 0% chance of teaching them anything because they just tune me out.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[peregrinerose 0]

V-B, you'll notice that there are a lot of strong personalities in this sport, but remember that every jumper has something to teach you (just as you potentially have something to teach every other jumper)... be careful to filter out the horse shit and see that there really is good information in some posts, couched among the attitudes.

One guy at a DZ I visited was a total horses' ass, treated everyone like crap, so a lot of folks just tuned him out, even when he had something good to teach. It was hard to learn from him because of that, but the information/experience he had really is priceless if you can deal with the attitude.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[stratostar 5]

First of all I did read the whole thread as well as the other posts before they were removed in the other thread.

Second of all I have no responsibility to sway those who fail to heed the common pratice in the industry today, or at least make an attempt to become educated by one or more of the many publications availble. If you make it to 100 plus jumps and think for a second that pulling a cutway handle and letting your RSL or AAD open your reserve, then your a fucking moron and if you bounce because of your stupidy then you get what you deserve.

And Third, my comment about tourists is a blanket statement and not a PA, when your done having a look around at the sights maybe you can start your continued education in the sport of skydiving.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[virgin-burner 1]

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One guy at a DZ I visited was a total horses' ass, treated everyone like crap, so a lot of folks just tuned him out, even when he had something good to teach. It was hard to learn from him because of that, but the information/experience he had really is priceless if you can deal with the attitude.

that feeling is quite similar how i experience my mentor..
if you happen to read this, you know how i mean it!!

if i read stratos meaningful posts, especially the one where he calls my mentor a "stupid fucking idiot", i cant help but think it might has something to do with the jumpnumber-thingy. you know, too many times a rapid change in ambient pressure, might have some adverse effect on brains!!

peregrinerose, you seem not to be affected yet, maybe you, baksteen and me should stop before we ever become that way!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda