I got screwed, hope it doesn't happen to you!

[alexleclainche 0]

Hey guys, poor situation, any ideas?

I recently purchased a rig from a guy who told me all the gear was new in 2002/2003 which is not the case... The container was actually made around '98, haven't even got into the main and reserve yet. My rigger says the harness must be replaced for $450 after the guy I bought it from said everything was perfect and in great condition... YEA RIGHT... I payed him through PayPal, not Ebay with a Bank of America debit Visa card. PayPal tells me that since the purchase was not through Ebay to screw off and call Visa. Visa says I don't have the benefits, call Bank of America... I am on hold with Bank of America but it looks like I am getting really screwed. My fault, I thought I could prove the "its too good to be true" theory wrong. I will probably have to swap out the 1990 reserve which i was told was a 2003 and the cypres is in need of its four year since its a 2000, not a 2003.

450 for new harness, 280 for cypres service, 800 for used reserve... Plus repack and rig inspection. Hope it never happens to you guys! I should have been smarter, just didn't realize I was dealing with such a nice liar...! I paid $950, so I'll end up just over 2 with a solid rig, but this is going to set me back financially and I would have rather waited until I had 2k for the right rig and no hassle.

Any ideas on how to recover my funds through a seller/buyer dispute other than flying to his home and breaking knee caps lol. After I purchased the rig he came up with bogus excuses and said I never said this or that... shit.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!
Oh, and for everyone going to tell me how much of an idiot I am, I already know, you don't have to waste precious minutes of your lives typing to tell me. lol

Cheers and blue skies,
Alex

[Mazz 0]

fly to his house, beat his ass. Steal his new rig. Shit in his shoes on the way out.

In the Navy, you can't put your hands in your pockets but I was always told not to put my hands in my pockets by people with their hands in their pockets. Kinda funny huh?

[Rover 9]

Name him, so others can be aware

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[JohnMitchell 14]

yes, please. This is a small sport. Maybe someone here can help you.

[skyjumpsteve 0]

How did you purchase the gear? DZ.com classifieds? Do you have any e-mail correspondence with the seller describing the age and conditions of the gear?

[drudchen 0]

Since you've only paid $950, I think you'll be able to sell it for almost just as much without false advertising, telling the truth about each item and its condition. Even only the 8yo cypres should be worth a few hundred.

I think you got screwed only in a sense that you didn't get such an amazing killer deal you thought you were. Otherwise, it seems the price is reasonable.

But yeah, false advertising is never justified. Sorry it worked out so bad for you

[alexleclainche 0]

The guy does not jump anymore, at least from what I know. I hear you about being able to re-sell the gear for around the same amount but I plan on just learning from my mistake and making it happen. He has agreed to refund me $250 which will help to pay for the re-harness job. So all in all, it worked out. Appreciate it guys and blue skies!

[JohnDeere 0]

Sorry it happend to you Lesson learned....at least you are getting some of your money back! Next time have it shipped to a rigger (for inspection) before at money changes hands. Also get pictures of manufacturing labels sent to you before shipment.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Hey guys, poor situation, any ideas?

I recently purchased a rig from a guy who told me all the gear was new in 2002/2003 which is not the case... The container was actually made around '98, haven't even got into the main and reserve yet. My rigger says the harness must be replaced for $450 after the guy I bought it from said everything was perfect and in great condition... YEA RIGHT... I payed him through PayPal, not Ebay with a Bank of America debit Visa card. PayPal tells me that since the purchase was not through Ebay to screw off and call Visa. Visa says I don't have the benefits, call Bank of America... I am on hold with Bank of America but it looks like I am getting really screwed. My fault, I thought I could prove the "its too good to be true" theory wrong. I will probably have to swap out the 1990 reserve which i was told was a 2003 and the cypres is in need of its four year since its a 2000, not a 2003.

450 for new harness, 280 for cypres service, 800 for used reserve... Plus repack and rig inspection. Hope it never happens to you guys! I should have been smarter, just didn't realize I was dealing with such a nice liar...! I paid $950, so I'll end up just over 2 with a solid rig, but this is going to set me back financially and I would have rather waited until I had 2k for the right rig and no hassle.

Any ideas on how to recover my funds through a seller/buyer dispute other than flying to his home and breaking knee caps lol. After I purchased the rig he came up with bogus excuses and said I never said this or that... shit.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!
Oh, and for everyone going to tell me how much of an idiot I am, I already know, you don't have to waste precious minutes of your lives typing to tell me. lol

Cheers and blue skies,
Alex

Deny the charges on your credit card, under the premise of the product not being as advertised (a debit card is protected in the same way). That puts the ball back in the sellers court. The card company should send him documents explaining why the charges were denied, and give him the opportunity to explain why he should still get paid.

The card holder usually wins cases like this, but be prepared to send the gear back as well.

By the way, have you just asked the guy to take the stuff back????

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Fast 0]

Another case of buying something and paying for it before you actually see it.

I won't buy ANY gear period unless my rigger has inspected it. If the person isn't willing to send it to me/my dz for my rigger to look at it before I pay, I won't do business with them.

I know a lot of people who have been screwed because they don't listen to that very advice.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[mr_music11 0]

When buying used gear (which I did for my 1st rig, minus the AAD which I bought new ( thought the new aad was worth spending the money on) I followed the advice given here on DZ.com Only purchase from reputable sellers. I got mine all from dealers selling used equipement that had been inspected by their rigger 1st. Finality of keeping the eq was contingent on the rigger @my local DZ to inspect the eq as well upon arrival (I had the gear sent directly to my rigger) All purchases on credit card so that I could dispute those charges (as described in the previous post) Sorry to hear about your experience. Good luck..blue skies

If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive.

[bwilling 0]

Quote

I won't buy ANY gear period unless my rigger has inspected it.

Even this step might not guarantee that you get what you think you're getting...

I recently purchased a nearly new Safire 229 from a third party. Initial discussions went well, and he agreed to send the canopy to my rigger for inspection. It was inspected, and was in the stated condition.

Shortly after I had the canopy in my possession, before I even jumped it, I discovered this thread, discussing the canopy. I asked him about it because it wasn't disclosed pre-sale, and he assured me that the canopy was fine, and that Para-Concepts had corrected the problem.

What had actually happened was that Para-Concepts had changed the brake setting to make it inflate faster, which disguised the problem. The previous owner had gotten it back from them, made exactly one H&P jump on it, and declared it 'fixed'. I, of course, didn't know this then...

I initially made a H&P on it, and it opened OK. But the next two jumps at terminal slammed the shit out of me, so I went back to the previous owner, then Kirk Smith at Para-Concepts, and found out what had been changed. I had my rigger contact Kirk, and had him undo the brake setting change that had been made.

Now it no longer slams me. But guess what? It opens like shit, just like the previous owner thought when he sent it back to Kirk to have it looked at. Initially, the guy was going to do the right thing, and take it back like he told me he would, but he's since changed his mind, and has decided that it's now my problem. A problem he knew about when he sold the canopy, save for a single jump that convinced him that it was 'fixed'.

Buyers beware, even though it's a small sport, not everybody is forthright and honest in it. I should have demanded my money back and sent him the canopy back on the spot when I discovered the thread here, and not been so trusting. I can only hope now that Icarus will make the situation right somehow, because I think, like the previous owner does in the thread above, that it's just a 'bad' canopy. I put 20ish jumps on a 209 demo, and it didn't open like this 229 does!

And with that, my string of never getting screwed in a skydiving deal comes to an end.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[hookitt 0]

Alex. 450 is a mighty steep price for a harness rebuild.

Would you mind filling in what type of rig and where you're sending it for a harness?

Why does it need to be replaced?

Edit: What is the reserve? 1990 isn't exactly new but there were some very good reserves made in 90. Depending on what it is, If it passes porosity and strength tests, there may be no reason to replace it.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[DescensionX 0]

Take them to court. You would easily win a civil suit. You wouldn't even need a lawyer. Chances are, he'll give you the money back before it gets that far.

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

Deny the charges on your credit card, under the premise of the product not being as advertised (a debit card is protected in the same way). That puts the ball back in the sellers court. The card company should send him documents explaining why the charges were denied, and give him the opportunity to explain why he should still get paid.

The card holder usually wins cases like this, but be prepared to send the gear back as well.

This brings up another point - I won't pay for any gear with a debit card.

Although I think rules have changed, it used to be that with credit card fraud, you were only liable for up to $50...but with a DEBIT card, you were just out the cash.

I believe that's changed now...but as the OP has found, it sucks trying to chase around different companies to see where the buck stops. Kinda like when your printer isn't working, and HP tells you to talk to Microsoft, who tells you to talk to Dell...etc.

I prefer to just make the chain shorter by using a credit card, knowing that Visa or Amex has an incentive to make things right (because otherwise, they'll be the ones eating the cost of the fraud, minus $50).

Signatures are the new black.

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Quote

Deny the charges on your credit card, under the premise of the product not being as advertised (a debit card is protected in the same way). That puts the ball back in the sellers court. The card company should send him documents explaining why the charges were denied, and give him the opportunity to explain why he should still get paid.

The card holder usually wins cases like this, but be prepared to send the gear back as well.

This brings up another point - I won't pay for any gear with a debit card.

Although I think rules have changed, it used to be that with credit card fraud, you were only liable for up to $50...but with a DEBIT card, you were just out the cash.

I believe that's changed now...but as the OP has found, it sucks trying to chase around different companies to see where the buck stops. Kinda like when your printer isn't working, and HP tells you to talk to Microsoft, who tells you to talk to Dell...etc.

I prefer to just make the chain shorter by using a credit card, knowing that Visa or Amex has an incentive to make things right (because otherwise, they'll be the ones eating the cost of the fraud, minus $50).

I've been using a debit card since they invented them. I was concerned about buyer protection when I got it and confirmed with the bank that all the protections that apply to a credit card also apply to a debit card.

On more than one occasion I have had to deny charges on it and no one ever even mentioned my being liable for any of the charges.

That may have just been my bank, but I've heard of others with the same experience.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

I've been using a debit card since they invented them. I was concerned about buyer protection when I got it and confirmed with the bank that all the protections that apply to a credit card also apply to a debit card.

On more than one occasion I have had to deny charges on it and no one ever even mentioned my being liable for any of the charges.

That may have just been my bank, but I've heard of others with the same experience.

I think you're the exception rather than the rule. I've never had an issue, but my sister at one point found herself liable for a slew of fraudulent charges (I believe it was around the year 2000).

After a bit of googling, it appears that Visa and Mastercard have now adopted zero liability policies for check card purchases using their networks.

But if you actually pay with a debit card (i.e., entering a PIN - I *think* you can do this via Paypal), your legal liability is

$50 - if you notify the bank within 2 business days of the fraudulent charge
$500 - if you report it within 60 days
100% - if you report it after 60 days have passed.

See here for more info.

I doubt most people will be using a debit card in debit card form to buy gear...but still, best to be aware. Especially as often as we hear about situations of fraud from gear transactions.


**(Apologies for the thread hijack - just thought it might be a good thing for people to think about when making big purchases).

Signatures are the new black.