Help in finding Cessna 206 STC for extra seatbelt

[goobersnuftda 0]

I am looking for the STC number for a Cessna 206 for the extra seat belt.

If anyone knows what that specific STC number is (P206 if that makes a difference) or someone who is operating a 206 skydiving plane with the extra seat belt, I would be most appreciative for that information.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Check with these guys. They bought Fayards operation.

http://www.rampartaviation.com/

[goobersnuftda 0]

Thanks, I'll give them a call and see what I can find.

[TaylorC 0]

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I am looking for the STC number for a Cessna 206 for the extra seat belt.

If anyone knows what that specific STC number is (P206 if that makes a difference) or someone who is operating a 206 skydiving plane with the extra seat belt, I would be most appreciative for that information.

looking for an STC so it can have 6 seatbelts or 7?

[aphid 0]

Burke,

Responded to you via CSPA forum.

John

[vpjr 1]

Sorry I dont own a P 206 Pilots operating handbook but the U206 handbook states for parachute operations that you can attach an (Extra) long seat belt to the copilots seat belt attatch points. This allows you to place 2 sets of belts on the 2 attach points. The U206 cargo loading proceedures also state that each seat belt attach point is rated to 250 lbs for my C models and 200 lbs for the F. Does the P206 POH state this in the cargo loading instructions? The fuselage floors are the same.

[riggerrob 561]

Sorry, but I do not have an exact answer to the original posters' question.

Just be cautious about installing extra parts - covered by FAA TSOs - in Canadian registered airplanes.
For example, Jack Hooker was installing skydiver-specific seatbelts in American registered airplanes 17 years ago. However, Transport Canada bureaucrats have stubbornly resisted their installation in Canadian registered airplanes. The process for obtaining a Canadian STC is far more complicated and far more expensive than the FAA process.
And don't even think about installing extra seatbelts under a 337, because TC cannot even spell 337!

Do I sound bitter? "F**N Right I am bitter!
Inadequete seatbelts are one of the reasons I was out of work - with a dislocated shoulder - for 8 months last year.

On a related matter, the last issue of Parachutist magazine mentioned a meeting - about skydiver-specific seatbelts - planned for October 2009. Has anyone heard any outcomes?
So you may want to wait a few months (eg. until spring time) before spending any money on seatbelts that may be obsolete before you bolt them in.

[goobersnuftda 0]

So if you had an American 206, could you install the extra seat belt under the FAA rules then import it into Canada and get it certified?

Sounds like trying to get it done in Canada after the fact is a hard thing to do.

[goobersnuftda 0]

I am shocked and amazed that the FAA isn’t the shining star of organization and order :)

I found this on line database but for the life of me, I can't even find the STC for seatbelts that I know do exist (widebody 182):

FAA Database

I've sorted by aircraft make but the FAA is still a mess. They list:

Cessna Aircraft Company
and
Cessna Aircraft Company, The

then they list

206
206 series

Their database sucks. Double redundant and things are missed in each. I would like to find the STC for extra seatbelts in a 206…and then I found this web page:

Web Page


6 skydivers in a U206 but where in the FAA database is there a listing for the additional seatbelt for a U206.

[timmyfitz 0]

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Do I sound bitter? "F**N Right I am bitter!
Inadequete seatbelts are one of the reasons I was out of work - with a dislocated shoulder - for 8 months last year.

How did an inadequate seat belt cause this to happen? Inadequate meaning a flawed seat belt?

[riggerrob 561]

Quote

Quote

Do I sound bitter? "F**N right I am bitter!
Inadequete seatbelts are one of the reasons I was out of work - with a dislocated shoulder - for 8 months last year.

How did an inadequate seat belt cause this to happen? Inadequate meaning a flawed seat belt?

.............................................................................................

Inadequete seatbelts as in "Beechcraft stock seatbelts" that border on useless for anchoring skydivers. Competition for the few useable seatbelts has gotten so viscious that it borders on workplace bullying!

But since they are listed in a Beechcraft manual, those seatbelts satisfy TC. If you try to install any other type of seatbelt, you will confuse TC. Confused TC inspectors tend to ground aircraft, fine aircraft operators and rip up licenses for the last mechanic (AME) who signed off the airplane.
TC is as restrictive - as the FAA - in licensing shops to manufacture or "re-web" aircraft seatbelts. Only two Canadian shops are allowed to repair or "re-web" aircraft seatbelts, something any Master rigger should understand at a glance. This policy reeks of protectionism! If you do not believe me, just ask FAA DPRE Allan Silver - who has sewn hundreds of custom seatbelts for (non-certified) homebuilts, warbirds, etc. but is not allowed to sew seatbelts for certified airplanes.

If you think my last statement was unusually harsh, just contemplate how much physical pain warps my sense of political correctness!

[vpjr 1]

The U206 POH states that you may attach 2 skydivers to the copilot seat belt attach points. Why not 1 skydiver to each seat belt attach point that is rated to 250lbs. the U POH also states "up to 5 skydivers" but I dont see that as a or under limitations. Look in your POH under cargo loading There is no STC for extra belts in a U206 because it already states attach point ratings in the poh I bet its the same in the P206. Could put 10 skydiving belts in the plane but the W/B and performance limit it to 6. Been ramped plenty of times and passed with my system.

[goobersnuftda 0]

I think I got ya beat Rob :)

I went on an expedition waaay North a number of years ago and when the Russians picked us up to take us to the ice camp, my seat belt was really short. Seems that it had a problem and was fixed "en route" by a qualified AME/AMO I'm sure.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Been ramped plenty of times and passed with my system.

What does that feel like afterwards?
Kinda icky, does it?
Does Coke get rid of the after-taste?

[vpjr 1]

Always feels best when they stop and walk away.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Always feels best when they stop and walk away.

Good point.

[totter 2]

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Sounds like trying to get it done in Canada after the fact is a hard thing to do.

It's a shame that Transport Canada is the way it is.
(The same can sometimes be said about the FAA). Going the reverse route and bringing an aircraft into the states is so much easier.

As far as data in the AFM (Pilot's Handbook), the FAA considers this Approved Data. So if the AFM states that you can install an additional seat belt you do not need any further approval.

We operate all Viking aircraft (deHavilland). When we imported 2 DHC-3s from Canada we had no issues with previously installed equipment. The FAA saw it as a Canadian built aircraft with the equipment installed in Canada. Good to Go.
We just sold a DHC-3T to an operator in B.C. Aeroflite, in Vancover, is having difficulty with TC due to US STCs that were installed here, but not certified in Canada.
Basically in the US the FAA will standardize a Canadian STC if all the data is complete and the I's are dotted and Ts are crossed. To go the opposite direction and have a US STC approved in Canada, TC wants you to go through the whole process from the beginning. Go Figure.

[riggerrob 561]

" ... Basically in the US the FAA will standardize a Canadian STC if all the data is complete and the I's are dotted and Ts are crossed. To go the opposite direction and have a US STC approved in Canada, TC wants you to go through the whole process from the beginning. Go Figure.

[pilotdave 0]

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Frequently, the "hillbilly engineers" at Keystone Helicopters (of Pennsylvania) would slap together a mount for a rescue hoist and quickly gain FAA aproval.

Hey now! I did some engineering work for keystone a few years ago... right before my company bought them. I did some analyses for four STCs. I can tell you that they don't slap anything together... there's a huge amount of engineering work that goes with every STC.

BTW, they're now building entire helicopters.

Out of curiosity, what's in the manual for a wire strike protection system?? Just one big warning?
Dave

[riggerrob 561]

Sorry,
No insult intended by the term "hillbilly engineer."

Rather, I use "hillbilly engineer" as a term of endearment, similar to the way Curtis Pitts called himself a "redneck engineer." That "redneck engineer" sure designed some great aerobatic biplanes!
By that same logic, Steve Wittman would be a "redneck engineer," the sort of intuitive engineer who could design race-winning airplanes on the back of an envelope and build them all himself. Remember that Steve invented the spring leaf landing gear legs that are standard on thousands of production airplanes.

By calling Keystone "hillbilly engineers," I meant that they who could quickly and neatly assemble a workable solution in one tenth the time required by a diplomaed engineer who has spent too long in academia.
IOW a simple gadget that does the job on time and on budget.

I wrote manuals for installing Wire Strike Protection Systems on MBB 105 and BK 117 helicopters. My manuals were mainly about where to bolt cutters and what torque to use.
Another tech writer wrote the supplement - to the pilot's handbook - for WSPS.

If you want to hear a derogatory term, ask Manley Butler to define "african engineering!"
Tee!
Hee!

By the way, what type of helicopters is Keystone building now?

[lekstrom10k 0]

At one time in the early 70's USPA bought the STC rights for 4 jumpers seat belts for C-182's and some C-180's. You could get it for $20 and your N-number. They might know about others too. Dont forget you have the flap switch cover and deflector if its a U-206. There is also a Cessna sky diver step for under the rear door to rotate it paralell to the fuselage. the inside handle at the front of the rear door must go too.
Another guy to try is Joe Weber at Skydive Oregon he does everything like Paul used to.

[amttap 0]

Take a look at AC105.2C........lot's of good info there & lists a bunch of the STC's USPA owns. Also;

US Parachute Association, 1440 Duke Street Alexandria VA 22314 United States

SA1-188SA1-188 Removal of right door, right front seat, right control column, and right rear window (optional) and Reissued 1995101810/18/1995
SA1-193SA1-193 Conversion of aircraft for parachute jumping operations. Reissued 1995101810/18/1995
SA217WESA217WE Removal of cabin door to permit aircraft to engage in special operations such as aerial photography, Reissued 1995101810/18/1995
SA4-1593SA4-1593 Removal of door for parachute jumping and aerial photography operations. Reissued 1995101810/18/1995
SA40CESA40CE Removal of left or right door for any purpose. Optical removal of right front seat, with occupant

US Parachute Association, P.O. Box 409 Monterey CA 93940 United States

SA367CESA367CE Removal of right front seat, rear seat, and baggage shelf (if installed). Installation of floor Reissued 1972102410/24/1972
SA874CESA874CE Removal of right front seat, rear seat, and baggage shelf (if in- stalled); installation of floor