timmyfitz 0 #26 November 18, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote100 pack jobs each of 2 types (back, chest or seat) and 3 years experience holding a Senior rigger rating or equivalent. Should have included this in the first question but.... In addition to what you mentioned, what does the DPRE test you on besides packing and experience? ................................................................................................... You don't NEED to hold a Senior Rigger rating for three years, but it makes a lot of sense. You still need three years EXPERIENCE rigging, but few Master Riggers are willing to supervise apprentices beyond 30 pack jobs. Sometimes the FAA will allow foreign rigger ratings as partial proof of experience when applying for FAA rigger ratings. A DPRE will test Master Rigger applicants on: regulations, materials identification, sewing machine adjustment, major canopy repairs and harness repairs. For example - when Annie Helliwell tested me for my Master rigger rating - she started with quizing me about the limits of a Master Rigger's priveleges, then pulled out a stack of tape, webbing and fabric samples. I correctly identified ninety percent of the samples, but stumbled over the last ten percent. After a few minutes of scratching my head in confusion, she said "Don't worry, those last few samples are not MIL-SPEC materials." Then she handed me a damaged canopy and pointed me towards a dis-assembled sewing machine. I had to install and adjust the: bobbin case tension spring, feed dogs, throat plate, needle bar and upper tension discs before starting the canopy repair, which included patching a bottom skin very close to a lateral reinforcing tape, line attachment tab and rib seam. Finally she asked me to sew a WW stitch - with 5-cord - on Type 7 webbing. I suspect that she let me off easy on harness and container repairs since - for the preceding two years - she had seen plenty of Talons that I had repaired - under the supervision of Master Riggers and TSO Inspectors at Rigging Innovations. Cool. That answered the question. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #27 November 18, 2009 QuoteJust curious. What are the requirements and qualifications for a senior rigger to become a master rigger? More importantly, what's a Junior Rigger, or a Regular Rigger? I'd think if you have a Senior, you'd have something inferior to that... JMOEvery fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #28 November 18, 2009 QuoteQuoteJust curious. What are the requirements and qualifications for a senior rigger to become a master rigger? More importantly, what's a Junior Rigger, or a Regular Rigger? I'd think if you have a Senior, you'd have something inferior to that... JMO ................................................................................................ This is an awkward part of FAA terminology. The FAA has never licensed "junior riggers" or "regular riggers." The FAA only issues licenses to two levels of parachute riggers: senior and master. Entry level applicants start by testing for a Senior Rigger rating. Senior Riggers can assemble, inspect and pack and do minor repairs on any type (back, seat or chest) of parachute they are licensed for. After three years of experience, they can test for Master Rigger. Master Riggers are allowed to do any minor or major repair - that can be done outside of a factory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #29 November 22, 2009 I personally would rather have a senior rigger add a BOC pouch than replace one. The idea of removing any stitching at all scares me a bit, so the concept of cutting stitching which binds together the container itself to replace a BOC pouch on my rig is out of the question. A few of you may remember, a while back there was a rig that came with padding on the inside of the harness to make it more comfortable and a number of people felt they were in the wrong place. To fix the issue, they removed the stitching from the padding, moved it up higher on the shoulders, and re-stitched it. Unfortunately, the stitching holding the padding on was also structural in regards to the reserve risers and I think there were at least three fatalities where people deployed their reserve and had the risers ripped clean off of the harness. I don't remember what container it was, but I'm sure I could come up with it if needed.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gary73 8 #30 November 22, 2009 On most rigs the BOC stitching is well clear of anything structural. Also, part of the training that a rigger should get is to know his limitations, both regulation-wise and capability-wise. Even the newest senior rigger should know the difference between the type-E thread that holds container parts together and the 5-cord that holds the harness together. If you can find the info on those harness failures, I'd be interested in seeing that. Thanks! "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #31 November 22, 2009 Yea, it was more a reference to the fact that something seemingly benign can have unfortunate consequences. I changed a pilot chute on my rig from a standard pilot chute to a collapsible pilot chute and made a mistake which resulted in a pilot chute in tow. It was my fault. I thought I understood but didn't. I think perhaps there are at least a few out there at my DZ that won't jump with me because they view me as unsafe as a result. I don't know this for a fact, but I believe it to be the case. A simple mistake CAN have drastic consequences and in this case, those involved didn't recognize the difference in thread. I will get the information for you and post it.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #32 November 22, 2009 I think it was the GS Express container.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 18 #33 November 23, 2009 QuoteI think it was the GS Express container. Hi Hammer, "We have a winner!!" Only one rig, back in the 70's and it was at O-Die (Borderlands Air Sports Center, Otay Lakes, CA aka McDonaldland, "He's dead Jim") From this incident at Otay came the colorful chant,"Blue Skys, Black Death, Green Star Reserves!!"SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #34 November 23, 2009 Quote A simple mistake CAN have drastic consequences and in this case, those involved didn't recognize the difference in thread. I will get the information for you and post it. Not recognize the difference between E thread and 5 cord? Compared to E, 5 is like rope. I know that the incident is real; I have heard of it before. But I wonder if the active parties were, in fact, certified riggers. If they were not, then it is an entirely different matter than what we've been talking about on this thread. There's no doubt that some mistakes can have dramatically disproportionate consequences. But I was never talking about doing things for which you have no training. If you don't know how to set up a BOC pocket, don't do the work. Part of rigging is knowing when you are in over your head. This is true even for "minor" repairs, not just "major" repairs. I have always found the distinction between major and minor curious, because even the most routine work, don't improperly enough, can compromise the function of a system. Please don't think that I am trying to say that anyone can or should be allowed to do anything. But trying to write clear rules about it is a tricky business. What would we say to a system where master riggers signed endorsements in logbooks stating that holders of lesser certificates had demonstrated the skill necessary to perform specific additional tasks? Masters not good enough? Okay, how about demonstrating to a DPRE? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
