obelixtim 100
QuoteQuoteThe highly experienced jumper ( a lower D licence than mine) intentionally dropped the young lady off spot, and into a field of holes, rocks and small bushes.It was a very long walk back, and I had to go find her and help her carry the gear back to the DZ
So, what did you do about it?. Could it not just have been as simple as a bad spot?. If you had proof it was deliberate/intentional, you must have had options to deal with it.
It sounds like you were the victim of a well organised, co ordinated conspiracy.
Apart from petty jealousy and minor points scoring, I didn't think skydivers were as organised as all that, way back then....
And I'm still not sure how you can reconcile your experience way back then to telling people today to ignore good advice from experienced people today, who have no axe to grind apart from wanting the best for everyone INCLUDING the idiots.
Because believe me, there are plenty of idiots out there, I've dealt with more than my fair share.
You seem to be tarring all of todays keen DZO's and instructors with the same brush as the people you say wronged you badly.
I resent that.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....
93zx11 0
Nope. you only need 70. 
obelixtim 100
The death defying daredevil image did a lot of PR damage to our sport, and took a hell of a lot of time and effort on the part of many individuals to overcome, if it ever did.
_______________________________
That quote was not specific to him. When I started there were quite a few nice people involved. But there were also a bunch of arseholes whose behaviour and attitude was uncivilised, to put it mildly.
Strutting around putting down anyone with less jumps than themselves, and thinking nothing of getting shitfaced after jumping and trashing and abusing facilities we shared with other aviators.
It was very difficult to get aircraft and airfields to jump at in those days because skydivers had a reputation for wrecking things. It took many many years to repair some of the damage they did, and the PR job still goes on.
Todays skydivers basically have planes and facilities on tap because of the people who made a huge effort to change things. I think that gives them the right to put some hotshot in his place when he oversteps the mark.
Bill is out of line letting his personal historical gripes override the efforts of people who care for the sport.
I have personally introduced over 10,000 solo jumpers to the sport. That doesn't give me the right to slag the efforts of others who try to keep the inexperienced alive. And I WILL fire a few shots at anyone who tries to do so. No matter what they've done before.
_______________________________
Quote
***You;re being a little harsh on Bill here.
That quote was not specific to him. When I started there were quite a few nice people involved. But there were also a bunch of arseholes whose behaviour and attitude was uncivilised, to put it mildly.
Strutting around putting down anyone with less jumps than themselves, and thinking nothing of getting shitfaced after jumping and trashing and abusing facilities we shared with other aviators.
It was very difficult to get aircraft and airfields to jump at in those days because skydivers had a reputation for wrecking things. It took many many years to repair some of the damage they did, and the PR job still goes on.
Todays skydivers basically have planes and facilities on tap because of the people who made a huge effort to change things. I think that gives them the right to put some hotshot in his place when he oversteps the mark.
Bill is out of line letting his personal historical gripes override the efforts of people who care for the sport.
QuoteI know personally several jumpers who started jumping specifically because they saw demos or read articles about or by Bill.
I have personally introduced over 10,000 solo jumpers to the sport. That doesn't give me the right to slag the efforts of others who try to keep the inexperienced alive. And I WILL fire a few shots at anyone who tries to do so. No matter what they've done before.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....
pirana 0
QuoteLets agree to disagree and call it a day.
One of the most telling buzz-phrases there is.
That and throwing the skygod insult at all of the experienced people that disagree. Oops, I mean agree to disagree. (Heaven forbid that we might disagree to disagree).
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
pirana 0
QuoteI don't skydive anymore.
So the BSRs are absurd, USPA is crazy, and it is OK to tell a new jumper to go to a DZ and lie about their experience so they can go wingsuiting?
Probably good that you do not jump anymore. Take the logical next step and stop advising new jumpers.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
pirana 0
QuoteCSPA and USPA have made rules to cover their rules, and have almost regulated themselves out of the sky.
Not my expereience at all. My observation is that it is pretty easy to make all kinds of skydives. Those that are restricted from certain things by a BSR have a clear path on how to correctly lift the restriction. It's called getting more expereince and/or training.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
pirana 0
QuoteIt takes an act of congress to be allowed to be able to advance in skydiving, and that is why some people strike out on their own.
For example, the " Currency jump" is designed only to put currency into the pockets of the DZOs and although I dont entirely disagree with having some format, its too much greed and not enough of a willingness to help someone.
If they think things through, they can usually pull it off, and you shouldnt be so prohibitive to people until you know their level of ability.
You are so full of hyperbolic BS. What advance were you tryinbg to make that required an act of congress?
My experience is no act of congress needed. Just accumulate the experience and get coaching/instruction from qualified people.
Also, I've done a few recurrency jumps with people that hadn't jumped in a while, one of which got quite wild. It definitely convinced me of their value.
Lastly; if it is likely that they could "usually" pull it off (I take that to mean complete the activity safely) is you criteria for moving them to the next level; I hope you are no longer training students.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
skypuppy 1
So, what did you do about it?. Could it not just have been as simple as a bad spot?. If you had proof it was deliberate/intentional, you must have had options to deal with it.
It sounds like you were the victim of a well organised, co ordinated conspiracy.
Apart from petty jealousy and minor points scoring, I didn't think skydivers were as organised as all that, way back then....
_______________________________________________
From what I know about it, and I think that's quite a lot as I've written a couple of articles about him and talked with various cspa officials both recent and past about him, there was indeed a 'conspiracy' against him. I don't know if you could call it well-organized or coordinated, but definately a conspiracy....
At that time you didn't actually need cspa membership to skycive or to do demos -- and if Bill was a member at the time (I don't remember off-hand, but there were many jumpers who were not) it's surely true that people would side with instructor having mis=spotted rather than agree with Bill. If he wasn't a member they wouldn't have cared to listen to him.
It was only at the agm two years ago, after 10 years of trying, that cspa finally recognized Bill's high altitude record of 1973, which still stands today. There are still a lot of people who actively put him down, but again, as I said, he inspired a 'lot' of people with the exposure he gained.
Send me a pm with your regular address and I can send you a dvd of some of Bill's commercials, appearances and demos into national events if you like.
It sounds like you were the victim of a well organised, co ordinated conspiracy.
Apart from petty jealousy and minor points scoring, I didn't think skydivers were as organised as all that, way back then....
_______________________________________________
From what I know about it, and I think that's quite a lot as I've written a couple of articles about him and talked with various cspa officials both recent and past about him, there was indeed a 'conspiracy' against him. I don't know if you could call it well-organized or coordinated, but definately a conspiracy....
At that time you didn't actually need cspa membership to skycive or to do demos -- and if Bill was a member at the time (I don't remember off-hand, but there were many jumpers who were not) it's surely true that people would side with instructor having mis=spotted rather than agree with Bill. If he wasn't a member they wouldn't have cared to listen to him.
It was only at the agm two years ago, after 10 years of trying, that cspa finally recognized Bill's high altitude record of 1973, which still stands today. There are still a lot of people who actively put him down, but again, as I said, he inspired a 'lot' of people with the exposure he gained.
Send me a pm with your regular address and I can send you a dvd of some of Bill's commercials, appearances and demos into national events if you like.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
93zx11 0
QuoteQuoteI don't skydive anymore.
So the BSRs are absurd, USPA is crazy, and it is OK to tell a new jumper to go to a DZ and lie about their experience so they can go wingsuiting?
Probably good that you do not jump anymore. Take the logical next step and stop advising new jumpers.
Yes yes and yes.
I never said I don't jump anymore, I said I don't skydive.
shah269 0
QuoteQuoteIs it true that you have to have had 270 jumps in one year to qualify to fly a wing suit?
That can't be right?
500 total or 200 in past 18 months
from the Wingsuit forum.
200-500! that's a bit much!
Especially if you live in the north east.
No wonder dudes say "screw it"
That's a $5k investment in a chance to say "Hi"
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.
The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!
The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!
QuoteQuoteQuoteIs it true that you have to have had 270 jumps in one year to qualify to fly a wing suit?
That can't be right?
500 total or 200 in past 18 months
from the Wingsuit forum.
200-500! that's a bit much!
Especially if you live in the north east.
No wonder dudes say "screw it"
That's a $5k investment in a chance to say "Hi"![[:/]](//www.dropzone.com/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png "[:/]")
$ 5k INVESTMENT???
d00d, we're not investing money...we're buying memories!
Some good some bad, some more costly that others...but as far as investing goes~
Better off investing your $ in wax lips and storing 'em in the trunk of a black car in south Texas!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIs it true that you have to have had 270 jumps in one year to qualify to fly a wing suit?
That can't be right?
500 total or 200 in past 18 months
from the Wingsuit forum.
200-500! that's a bit much!
Especially if you live in the north east.
No wonder dudes say "screw it"
That's a $5k investment in a chance to say "Hi"
$ 5k INVESTMENT???
d00d, we're not investing money...we're buying memories!
Some good some bad, some more costly that others...but as far as investing goes~
Better off investing your $ in wax lips and storing 'em in the trunk of a black car in south Texas!
Only $5k??
Shit... I spent more than that on just one rig.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message
Found in these forums:
A true Pioneer of our Sport!
"All for one & One for All"
****From The Article;****
Bill Cole did a lot for skydiving in Canada - his photos graced the covers of Maclean's, Toronto Life and other magazines, his articles appeared in papers, and he set new high altitude records several times. He was the 2nd person to purposefully jump out of a plane without a parachute. But most skydivers in Canada today have never heard of him - why?
I for one believe Bill Cole was treated quite unfairly by CSPA (who suspended him for life twice!). When I dared to ask the Competition Committee why Bill's Cdn high altitude record was not recognized by CSPA I was surprised at the vehemence of some of the replies - first that I shouldn't be butting in to ask, then that Bill was not a member at the time of his records, then that he needed a sporting licence for it to have been valid and the RCFCA had issued their certificate for the record in error. All these I was able to refute. What I ended up with was an impression that Bill hadn't towed the line and CSPA with the desire to increase Sport Canada funding wanted to show a hard line. Since at the time he didn't need membership to make his living skydiving, Bill didn't fight after the 2nd suspension.
Bill always said he fought to have a different class of rules for so-called 'stuntmen' in CSPA. While he admits jumping without a chute was against the BSR's and may have warranted a suspension (1 or 2 years?), a lifetime suspension was out of order. Most of the other violations actually occurred during his 1st or 2nd suspension. Therefore, not being a member at the time they cannot be held against him!
I was told by Bill that he doesn't know the reason for his 2nd suspension. CSPA people have told me this is a lie Bill made up 30 years ago and that he is still telling it, that there were so many letters he had to know. But I have seen Bill's files - they are extensive and not all flattering. If he knew he would have kept the letters, if only to laugh at the board later about them. I have myself discussed this with my rep from the BoD and after reviewing the file, she still could not give me a satisfactory answer - she kept making suggestions, but when I said that doesn't sound right she agreed and came up with something else - she eventually said it would be disrespectful of previous BoD's to overturn their decision, and that more people she talked to told her not to allow Bill back in then agreed to. I maintain that most of the people she talked to were involved in the original dispute and were biased already. After Bill's suspension he joined USPA and he was later kicked out of that organization due to CSPA's lobbying.
Bill is not necessarily an easy guy to get along with, but I maintain that no one deserves a lifetime suspension for a first or second offence. The situation with Bill reminds me of the way CSPA fell out with another DZO out west resulting in the formation of CAPS. I believe that CSPA is lucky that Bill Cole didn't continue to sue them at the time as they were later sued by that person.
Bill has recently been told over 6 months after asking that the BoD has unanimously rejected his appeal - especially ironic since even his original suspension was not unanimous. I believe Bill continues to be treated unfairly by CSPA
A true Pioneer of our Sport!
"All for one & One for All"
****From The Article;****
Bill Cole did a lot for skydiving in Canada - his photos graced the covers of Maclean's, Toronto Life and other magazines, his articles appeared in papers, and he set new high altitude records several times. He was the 2nd person to purposefully jump out of a plane without a parachute. But most skydivers in Canada today have never heard of him - why?
I for one believe Bill Cole was treated quite unfairly by CSPA (who suspended him for life twice!). When I dared to ask the Competition Committee why Bill's Cdn high altitude record was not recognized by CSPA I was surprised at the vehemence of some of the replies - first that I shouldn't be butting in to ask, then that Bill was not a member at the time of his records, then that he needed a sporting licence for it to have been valid and the RCFCA had issued their certificate for the record in error. All these I was able to refute. What I ended up with was an impression that Bill hadn't towed the line and CSPA with the desire to increase Sport Canada funding wanted to show a hard line. Since at the time he didn't need membership to make his living skydiving, Bill didn't fight after the 2nd suspension.
Bill always said he fought to have a different class of rules for so-called 'stuntmen' in CSPA. While he admits jumping without a chute was against the BSR's and may have warranted a suspension (1 or 2 years?), a lifetime suspension was out of order. Most of the other violations actually occurred during his 1st or 2nd suspension. Therefore, not being a member at the time they cannot be held against him!
I was told by Bill that he doesn't know the reason for his 2nd suspension. CSPA people have told me this is a lie Bill made up 30 years ago and that he is still telling it, that there were so many letters he had to know. But I have seen Bill's files - they are extensive and not all flattering. If he knew he would have kept the letters, if only to laugh at the board later about them. I have myself discussed this with my rep from the BoD and after reviewing the file, she still could not give me a satisfactory answer - she kept making suggestions, but when I said that doesn't sound right she agreed and came up with something else - she eventually said it would be disrespectful of previous BoD's to overturn their decision, and that more people she talked to told her not to allow Bill back in then agreed to. I maintain that most of the people she talked to were involved in the original dispute and were biased already. After Bill's suspension he joined USPA and he was later kicked out of that organization due to CSPA's lobbying.
Bill is not necessarily an easy guy to get along with, but I maintain that no one deserves a lifetime suspension for a first or second offence. The situation with Bill reminds me of the way CSPA fell out with another DZO out west resulting in the formation of CAPS. I believe that CSPA is lucky that Bill Cole didn't continue to sue them at the time as they were later sued by that person.
Bill has recently been told over 6 months after asking that the BoD has unanimously rejected his appeal - especially ironic since even his original suspension was not unanimous. I believe Bill continues to be treated unfairly by CSPA
Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin
DSE 3
Quote
That's a $5k investment in a chance to say "Hi"
That's a 5K investment in being competent enough to hopefully not harm an unsuspecting 3rd party.
Did you get into skydiving to make money or have fun? Paid jumps are fun too, but would you want your mom in a tandem with a low-timer across from her?
Was Bill a member of CSPA at the time he made his high altitude record? If not the BOD would have to ignore requirement applied worldwide to records in any sport.
"All participants in CSPA records must be Canadian citizens or landed immigrants with at least one year residency and must be members of CSPA."
Bill was kicked out CSPA for reasons the BOD at the time felt were justified, maybe yes maybe no. He then joined USPA and suffered the same fate. Now this could be a big conspiracy or it could be that Bill was unwilling to conduct himself in a manner that CSPA required for membership.
But it seems to that if you get kicked out of one National organization, shame on them. If you kicked out of National organizations, shame on you. Everyone else is wrong and only Bill is right. Nothing was ever his fault.
Sparky
"All participants in CSPA records must be Canadian citizens or landed immigrants with at least one year residency and must be members of CSPA."
Bill was kicked out CSPA for reasons the BOD at the time felt were justified, maybe yes maybe no. He then joined USPA and suffered the same fate. Now this could be a big conspiracy or it could be that Bill was unwilling to conduct himself in a manner that CSPA required for membership.
But it seems to that if you get kicked out of one National organization, shame on them. If you kicked out of National organizations, shame on you. Everyone else is wrong and only Bill is right. Nothing was ever his fault.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
I didn't start jumping because of Bill Cole, but I definitely DID aspire to be a professional demonstration jumper because of him and others like him, I am for one quite grateful for the path he blazed.
Gave me and those like me a dream and direction to follow and expand upon!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~