Questions about canopy turns without toggles?

[crak 0]

Kudos to the 101 Airborne and the jump into Michigan Stadium.

I'm new to skydiving (31 jumps) and curious about what the jumper is doing when he drops the toggles and pulls higher up on lines, what lines he's pulling, and what is the benefit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJX2FiW-ik

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

31 jumps and you don't know about rear riser turns? Ouch!

Turns can be made with either front or rear risers. Landing flare can done with rear risers. Rear riser turns with brakes stowed are an important tool for avoiding collisions immediately after canopy deployment and inflation.

Rear riser turns are relatively safe and easy to learn by yourself. Front riser turns and landing on rear risers have both technique and safety issues that are best explained by an instructor or coach face-to-face.

These topics are discussed in the SIM.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Hellis 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJX2FiW-ik

Its the A-B line furthest out on the right.
Why? Just by the look of it, it seems to be easier to pull than pulling the riser and seems to give him a more violent spin.

I dont recommed you try it unless you are alone in the air, as you can see he lets go of both toggles and unless you are alone in the sky that could be very dangerous when doing manuvers like this.
He made this manuver knowing there was nobody he could collide with.

[brucet7 0]

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31 jumps and you don't know about rear riser turns? Ouch!

The question relates to A and B lines being pulled in the video, not front or rear riser turns. It seemed like a reasonable question given the video he was watching.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[crak 0]

That's kind of what it thought (A&B lines far right) and definitely looks like a more aggressive turn than right front riser or toggles.

Since this is pulling down a smaller/specific area of the rt front wing and more dramatically changing the angle of attack, I wonder if this could collapse the chute or get an end cell closure?

Thanks for the info...

[crak 0]

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Dude, of course I understand riser turns. Watch the video...
And take it easy on newbies here. I'm thick skinned and don't care, but probably not a good idea to scare away folks with questions or make them feel stupid for asking one... (especially if I didn't know what riser turns were)
Cheers

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[format 0]

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Since this is pulling down a smaller/specific area of the rt front wing and more dramatically changing the angle of attack, I wonder if this could collapse the chute or get an end cell closure

I say this is an interesting question.
Pulling "A" line only, allows for easier/longer-down pull. Still, it's not so common (according to videos available) vs. pulling front riser with "A+B" lines - which must and is harder to pull. In a matter of possible collapsing the canopy, I'd say that riser pull is safer. I Did use line pulling only but never to the extreme, therefor wasn't scared of canopy collapse.

Can't wait to read some experienced guys replies.

What goes around, comes later.

[dragon2 0]

That A-line turn is a common trick among accuracy jumpers and CRW jumpers. For accuracy, with those big canopies, it's way easier and way more effective to pull just one line than an entire riser. For CRW bigways, when flying on the outside of a formation you have to stop the canopy from flying 'round and wrapping up, it's easier to hang onto a single A-line than to hang on to the entire outside front riser for so long.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[pilotdave 0]

Some Classic canopies have a B-line attached lower on the right front riser, for easy reach. You can see a couple people using them in the first picture, and you can see that B-line on the second picture.

Dave

[dragon2 0]

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Some Classic canopies have a B-line attached lower on the right front riser, for easy reach. You can see a couple people using them in the first picture, and you can see that B-line on the second picture.

Dave

A
B

I should probably go to bed

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Rover 9]

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31 jumps and you don't know about rear riser turns? Ouch!

Turns can be made with either front or rear risers. Landing flare can done with rear risers. Rear riser turns with brakes stowed are an important tool for avoiding collisions immediately after canopy deployment and inflation.

Rear riser turns are relatively safe and easy to learn by yourself. Front riser turns and landing on rear risers have both technique and safety issues that are best explained by an instructor or coach face-to-face.

These topics are discussed in the SIM.

Mate, replies like this in no way help a new person learn - just like all the 'search is your friend' replies - and in this case shows your ignorance as the turns in question did not involve the use of rear risors.

In fact I learnt someting new from this, and I've only been jumping 29 years....

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[sprtdth 0]

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Since this is pulling down a smaller/specific area of the rt front wing and more dramatically changing the angle of attack, I wonder if this could collapse the chute or get an end cell closure

I say this is an interesting question.
Pulling "A" line only, allows for easier/longer-down pull. Still, it's not so common (according to videos available) vs. pulling front riser with "A+B" lines - which must and is harder to pull. In a matter of possible collapsing the canopy, I'd say that riser pull is safer. I Did use line pulling only but never to the extreme, therefor wasn't scared of canopy collapse.

Can't wait to read some experienced guys replies.

Big dislaimer here. Don't try this under your hard deck! You WILL lose a lot of altitude very quickly!
Grab your outermost line on your front riser,pull down until you get scared, then pull it down some more (I've had it down to my waist)That being said, have fun!

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

[wildcard451 0]

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31 jumps and you don't know about rear riser turns? Ouch!

Turns can be made with either front or rear risers. Landing flare can done with rear risers. Rear riser turns with brakes stowed are an important tool for avoiding collisions immediately after canopy deployment and inflation.

Rear riser turns are relatively safe and easy to learn by yourself. Front riser turns and landing on rear risers have both technique and safety issues that are best explained by an instructor or coach face-to-face.

These topics are discussed in the SIM.

Wow. Don't you feel like an idiot? 725 jumps and you think that is a rear riser turn? Please go find a golf course and donate your gear to a newbie.

[Andy_Copland 0]

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31 jumps and you don't know about rear riser turns? Ouch!

Turns can be made with either front or rear risers. Landing flare can done with rear risers. Rear riser turns with brakes stowed are an important tool for avoiding collisions immediately after canopy deployment and inflation.

Rear riser turns are relatively safe and easy to learn by yourself. Front riser turns and landing on rear risers have both technique and safety issues that are best explained by an instructor or coach face-to-face.

These topics are discussed in the SIM.

Wow. Don't you feel like an idiot? 725 jumps and you think that is a rear riser turn? Please go find a golf course and donate your gear to a newbie.

I heart your sometimes.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Zlew 0]

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Kudos to the 101 Airborne and the jump into Michigan Stadium.

I'm new to skydiving (31 jumps) and curious about what the jumper is doing when he drops the toggles and pulls higher up on lines, what lines he's pulling, and what is the benefit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJX2FiW-ik

It's an oldschool technique for sure. Some of the GK's that used to jump where I started skydiving used to talk about A-B turns on their demo canopies. To be honest, I've never tried it, and not sure how a modern canopy (elliptical/crossbraced/and/or winglaoded) would respond to that. Might be time to try....