guineapiggie101 0 #1 February 28, 2011 Yesterday I did two AFF 3 skydives (still stuck on that level). On 2nd skydive, I flared too early. Once I flared, I knew it was too early, but I did a full flare (so knew NOT to let it up). I kept my knees together and tried doing a PLF. Ended up tumbling on my right foot and tumbling over. I ended up spraining my foot/ankle whatever. I'm frustrated that I hurt my foot and want to know how to AVOID that in the future. I did the flare and when I realized I flared too early, I knew to try and roll the landing, but I still hurt myself a bit. I am also frustrated that I am still on level 3, although the 2 instructors who jumped with me twice yesterday were really good and they both said I am showing improvement. I might not be able to do more dives next weekend, if my foot is still hurting like this. Overall, I still love this and will continue, despite it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #2 February 28, 2011 easy fix, dont flare too early.. shouldnt you still be on the radio!? once you're more experienced, dont flare any further, then finish your flare at a more appropriate height. but i dont think i should be saying that..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guineapiggie101 0 #3 February 28, 2011 Yes, I am still on radio. My question really has to do with, how do I AVOID getting hurt, if I should flare too early. When I did my flare (full), I realized that I was still a bit off the ground and I was hoping to just come into a sliding stop on my butt. I tried doing PLF, but ended up rolling on my right ankle and hurting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #4 February 28, 2011 practice a PLF better comes to mind..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydude2000 3 #5 February 28, 2011 First of all, I'm not sure if this technique will work on the canopy you have, and ABSOLUTELY verify this with your instructors. But early-on, I was taught if you flare WAY too early, let up on the toggles SLIGHTLY, and then finish your flare normally. But if you let up too much, your canopy will surge forward and you WILL get hurt. Most often it's best to just hold your flare and PLF, unless you're WAY too high. Again, verify this technique with your instructors before trying it in the air. Heal up fast. PULL!! or DIE!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #6 February 28, 2011 Quote First of all, I'm not sure if this technique will work on the canopy you have, and ABSOLUTELY verify this with your instructors. But early-on, I was taught if you flare WAY too early, let up on the toggles SLIGHTLY, and then finish your flare normally. But if you let up too much, your canopy will surge forward and you WILL get hurt. Most often it's best to just hold your flare and PLF, unless you're WAY too high. Again, verify this technique with your instructors before trying it in the air. Heal up fast. Yup...ease up slowly to half brakes and then finish the flare when at the right altitude...also get a good pair of boots and lace 'em up tight. As a student ya really wanna protect that landing gear until our get hrough he 'oh shits' that will and have happened. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 89 #7 February 28, 2011 Back more than 35 years ago, when I first tried skydiving (I did a total of 10 jumps/landings), a PLF was THE landing technique; there was no other way until you got off of your round chute. (and you didn't wear sneakers, you wore boots with high ankle support). We practiced PLF over and over by jumping off a 4 ft high platform, initially without a rig (but with a helmet), then with gear. I recall doing at least 30 of them, (starting with 2 ft high, then 3, then 4) and I got good at it. I just went though AFF training, so recognize that everything I say is coming from a student (and so don't listen to me if your instructors or more experenced people here tell you different). But it struck me that the PLF practice in my AFF course was not quite as useful. It wasn't by jumping off something, it was just kind of hopping up on a carpeted floor then falling. I don't think it was as good a training technique, because you really didn't have a chance to get into the position you would be in (because the act of hopping gets all your limbs out of position). Much better (IMO) to be jumping off of an elevated platform of sorts, as that much better simulates the real conditions and the speed and forces. Anyway, it's a technique that you can practice on your own once you got the basic move down (and your ankle heals) so that it becomes instinctive (burn it into muscle memory). Put on a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, hip pads, whatever you got to avoid bruising, lay down some carpet or mats if you want, and just do them over and over. (Ideally when you get good you do want to land on typical grassy land.) One tip: don't look down when you practice, look at the horizon (you want your trigger to be when you feel your feet touching, not when you see them touch). FYI, with the possibility of standup landings now, I get all confused: I know how to do a PLF, but as I approach the ground my mind is doing all sorts of calculations back and forth: "can I stand this? Wait, just be safe. Wait, I can stand this up. Oh no, maybe I can't." So I ended up not doing either! First 7 AFFs were 3 butt slides, two "fall forwards" on my shoulder kind of fast, and two "fall forwards" very slow ("I could have stood that! ARRRRGGGHHH!") Anyway, sorry you have to repeat level 3. I very much admire your persistance, and at the very least you are, through experience, diminishing the "door anxiety", becoming more familiar with the environment of a 120 mph freefall, and are building confidence in your deploy sequence. Hopefully once you figure out what strategies work to allow you to achieve stability, you will fly through the rest of your levels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #8 February 28, 2011 It is nearly impossible to teach someone to flare correctly on the internet, but it will come with experience. A flare is not an all-or-nothing event. As you gain experience you will find that as you start your flare you will be able to evaluate the effect it is having. From there you can decide to speed up, slow down or even stop the flare. It is a sort of "feedback loop". It has to be like this because no two flares are ever identical. It depends on various parameters including airspeed, density altitude, canopy type etc... In short, with experience you will learn to flare at a more appropriate height and also to recognize when a flare is too high earlier on so you can stop it before you have used all your toggle range. In the meantime, feet and knees together and PLF! Also, try to get video of every landing and get a debrief from your instructor. Video debriefs ROCK! Good luck. Heal fast. Edited to add: Do lots of practice flares under canopy. I do them every jump and it does help. Don't forget to clear your airspace when you do this."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guineapiggie101 0 #9 February 28, 2011 Yes, I am persistent. I like being up in the air and playing around up there. It is a lot of fun. Hopefully I can continue this upcoming weekend. With each dive, even each repeat dive, I am learning a lot and feeling more comfortable with jumping out there and flying. It is quite an adrenalin rush. I have done 5 dives for AFF 3. Next will be my 6th dive. I wish I wasn't so much a "problem child" with my levels. I am trying so hard to do this. I need to relax. I am having fun, but I do worry that people will give up on me and say "enough is enough and this isn't for me, esp since I seem to need so much "hand-holding". All of my landings have been great, with the exception of my last one. Usually I end up landing by sliding in on my butt I guess with time, I will land correctly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #10 February 28, 2011 Quote Yes, I am persistent. Understatement of the decade (and that's a good thing). Quote I wish I wasn't so much a "problem child" with my levels. You aren't. Stop comparing yourself to others and just have fun in the air. BTW, we can do tunnel time even if your ankle isn't up for landing a canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #11 February 28, 2011 May I ask a very dumb question? Would say "driving shoes" work better since they slide more and grip less? And thus perhaps reduce propencity to cause injury? I jump them and I have noticed that they slide nice and thus convert the energy very well? Thanks.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #12 February 28, 2011 i have an old pair of adidas, gazelles maybe!? not that they had much profile to begin with, but now they're completely flat. and i wouldnt mind loosing them in freefall.. and of course, they somehow match the jumpsuit! but they dont offer any sort of anke-protection, and i slide in my landings on my feet usually.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #13 February 28, 2011 So perhaps the "slide" is better than the "stop"Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #14 February 28, 2011 shah, i see you got your A; so u're an "experienced" jumper already! someone on AFF should be like "FLARE! STOP!" the "turf-surfing" should be more for the higher experienced jumpers, and sliding in on your butt is also not really an option.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #15 February 28, 2011 It sounds like you've got very attentive, thorough and (extremely) accommodating instructors, from everything I have read "piggie" (sorry, could not resist ) so far in your posting history here. Yes? - No? Not to sound disparaging about it, but I'm a bit concerned and confused therefore, that already knowing (and I think you would too anyway - correct me if I am wrong) acknowledging this - you keep coming onto here, and seeking "advice" from peeps who: 1. Clearly don't know you. 2. Have not seen you, all the accommodations you might need. and... probably most importantly... 3. Have not seen you in the air, any of your actual performance, or this actual landing to (be able to responsibly anyway) comment on. Maybe you flared so friggen high, that the PLF you did was actually excellent, and as a result - it truly saved your bacon! ...I/we dunno!! A (relatively) minor injury to your ankle may even be in of itself a true miracle!! Here is my point - - seeking (and then worse - taking) advice over the internet on such is really not (in general) a very good idea. I could (as others, even very well meaning) give you all kinds of detailed advice and "instruction" on how to react to a high flare - and be fully applicable to correcting your flight (and landing) path for that high-flare - applicable to what I THINK you may have done (and how high) - and... ...I could be TOTALLY WRONG! And because I simply just "misinterpreted" just a bit (easy enough to do over the internet, wouldn't you concede/agree?) - I could even give you advice, or put thoughts in your head as a result, that could even be downright DANGEROUS! Please do not take advice to this from strangers over the internet. No matter how well meaning (by/from either side of the equation). Advising you any differently I'm afraid too - would be doing you (even if unintentional) a DISSERVICE! General discussion items, and insights into things are all well & good, and seeking community support etc. (which we all also are happy to give!) - fine ...but when it comes to specific performance advice during/through your student progression - Please REFER TO YOUR INSTRUCTORS. Hope this helps, and best wishes on your continued progression! I've been inspired personally, so far in following/reading about it, and admire your tenacity. Sounds like you've got some great instructors too there, actively and attentively working with you. I'm sure they will be able to work you through the transient bumps & bruises & steer you (literally & figuratively ) in the right direction - just so long as you don't also get yourself too confused by VARYING (and maybe even completely inapplicable - no matter how well meaning) "advice" you might receive by those who have not seen you, don't know you, and well... may even just plain DON'T KNOW (yet are willing to "spout") over the internet. coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #16 February 28, 2011 QuoteI have done 5 dives for AFF 3. Next will be my 6th dive. Your next one will tie my record....Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #17 February 28, 2011 Quote the "turf-surfing" should be more for the higher experienced jumpers, and sliding in on your butt is also not really an option.. I'm thinking micro movements. If you land and the shoes "grab" the grass could that be a major cause of trauma? Would it be better if they were "flat" and so there would be less to grab? As for the OP...go for it! Hope you get better. It took me a solid year to get my A!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guineapiggie101 0 #18 February 28, 2011 I know, I probably should be asking my instructors these questions. A lot of times, I am soo overloaded and exhausted after my jump that I kind of get dazed and don't know what to ask. Then I usually remember, like later that night, or the next day. So, I post on here. My instructors all have been cool and great to work with. It is because of them that I have gotten this far. Scrumpot, I'm glad my rocky journey is an inspiration to you. Hopefully my ankle/foot will feel better by this weekend. I want to go jumping againOtherwise, maybe I might consider doing some tunnel time. That is always good practice. One thing I wanted to comment on, yesterday, I was telling someone that I was going to the doc to get the foot looked at, and they told me that I should say that I hurt myself skydiving since it could cause insurance issues? Is that true? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #19 February 28, 2011 Quote I know, I probably should be asking my instructors these questions. Yes. Please don't change up your shoes, please don't pay much attention to most of the posts. Two exceptionally experienced instructors gave you a thorough de-brief, so you already know what's goin' on whereas the internet couch coaches don't. You twisted your ankle. Enough said (as far as insurance goes). I still recommend you have it looked at by a professional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guineapiggie101 0 #20 February 28, 2011 DSE, I went to Urgent Care yesterday evening and got my foot looked at. They did x-rays and it is just a bad sprain. I have no criticisms about the debrief. It was good and through. I know what was missing in my skydives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #21 February 28, 2011 tunnel this week? Let's go and just have fun, and only do one or two rounds with objectives in mind. Air time is all you need, kiddo. And I had a blast with the last one. TY for the smiles. Oh...and we'll put you in a DZ jumpsuit...that'll be better too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #22 February 28, 2011 Quote Anyway, it's a technique that you can practice on your own once you got the basic move down (and your ankle heals) so that it becomes instinctive (burn it into muscle memory). Put on a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, hip pads, whatever you got to avoid bruising, lay down some carpet or mats if you want, and just do them over and over. (Ideally when you get good you do want to land on typical grassy land.) I disagree. Even people that start to get the PLF could be doing parts wrong. I just sat thru a coach course last weekend, and they had the students (myself included) do a practice PLF (reasoning is you have to know how to do it, before you can teach it) myself and one other jumper were first time goes, the other 4 guys had to keep trying. They thought they were doing them right, but they weren't rotating or keeping their feet together. (Wish I had a video camera though!) Also, don't put pads on where you won't normally have the padding, you want to feel the roll and know what to expect, so the first time your 4th point of contact is coming in contact with terra firma, you know what it feels like and it doesn't shock you and distract you."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #23 February 28, 2011 Sorry Shah, I'm w/VB on this. She shouldn't be trying those types of landings. I've worn driving shoes. They're designed for flexibility & feel on the track. She needs sturdy support & padding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #24 February 28, 2011 Hi, You're in competent hands @Elsinore. It's a very good DZ. I must say. When you come on here, & ask the community's advice? It seems that you're second-guessing your instructors. That's a bad idea. They are the ones who actually see what you're doing/not doing. They are the ones who will get you through this initial rough period. If you start trying to incorporate a little of this one's advice, & a little of that one's technique??? You're going to take longer to learn this, & probably get hurt. On top of this. You're a little person, correct? You have special needs that will also best be attended to by the people on-scene. Landing isn't rocket science, GP. You'll get it. My advice is not to make it harder on yourself by adding to the confusion. Learn the exercises for your ankle so it isn't more injury prone after you heal. Take advantage of the tunnel time while you wait. You'll be more prepared when you jump again in a few weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutaway68 4 #25 February 28, 2011 I was a little concerned that in your profile you list that you are a photographer, but now that I see that you are under the tutelage of DSE, it's all good. Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!! The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can." Be fun, have safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
