Wanting to start over or quit altogether

[guppykf 0]

I have over 140 jumps and after some self evaluation and looking at all the recent incidents that I want to start over. During my student progression I was a mutt of a student, jumped at difference DZ's with several different instructors with time lapsing between jumps; took me 2 yrs to complete my "A". Last year I made over 90 jumps. I've read the SIMS a few times, have over 2 hours of tunnel time and have attended 1 canopy course and am scheduled for another with Brian Germaine.

But with all of this I still feel I am lackluster and deficient in knowledge and skills. I still cant spot worth a crap. I know my home dropzone visuals but am clueless how to figure out a spot. I dont land "off", but on average I land more than 30 ft further than I plan. Due to this I ride my brakes until I count everyone on the load are either in the pattern or landing before I approach my pattern. My RW skills are probably the best of all my skills and they are still work in progress.

I recently scratched my gear pretty badly by Mr. wind dragging me across tarmac cause of my piss poor landing skills.

So long story long, is it crazy to want to start over and take a structured course again? or should at this point just give up and realize this sport isnt for me? I love the comradarie, I love the feel of the wind in my face and I love the exhileration I feel when that door opens. I WANT to live long in this sport and dont want to be another statistic, but maybe wanting isn't enough.

I know I might get blasted for posting this type inquiry in the forum, but I am on a serious quest to figure out what my next step should be. Fear is not something I'm used to shying from, but maybe this one might be the one I should.

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[NWFlyer 2]

Nope, not an uncommon feeling at all - especially given where you are in your experience. You're just starting to get a taste of how much you don't know, and you're just starting to really, truly comprehend all of the areas of risk in this sport.

Sounds like item #1 on your list would be a structured canopy course. I've taken three - one at just over 100 jumps, one at just over 200, and one at over 500. I will continue to take one every couple of years because I think there's always something new I can learn, and I can always use the refresher. Ask around to see if anyone's putting on a canopy course nearby, and sign yourself up!

As for spotting - good on you for wanting to learn how to do it better. Too many people are happy to be green light lemmings. This seems to be one of those things you can work on more informally - maybe see if you can do a two-way with someone more experienced, and have that person help you focus on spotting. Or on a larger jump, arrange to be at the door with someone who is spotting and practice just like you did as a student - you tell them when you think the spot is right, and have them say "yes" or "no" and discuss the details on the ground.

And for RW skills ... well ... the only way to work on that is to work on that. I have almost 800 jumps and several hours of tunnel time, have trained with an 8-way team and gone to nationals, and I still feel like I suck! Or at the very least, I still feel extremely inconsistent. It's natural. I think, for me, some of the things that have helped with my learning curve is sticking to smaller jumps so that you're sure you'll have a chance to fly, taking advantage of any and all organizing available so that you can work with people who are good at putting together successful dives and so you can get feedback, and moving away from "zoo dives" and focusing primarily on quality RW jumps.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[davelepka 4]

Quote

I still feel I am lackluster and deficient in knowledge and skills. I still cant spot worth a crap. I know my home dropzone visuals but am clueless how to figure out a spot. I dont land "off", but on average I land more than 30 ft further than I plan.

With reference to this, and the other issues you stated, how hard have you tried to improve in these areas?

If you have put out a significant effort, and still haven't seen any improvement, then maybe jumping isn't for you.

If you have just plodded along, without really putting out much effort, just sort of taking 'whatever comes your way', then maybe you should actually try to learn above and beyond just fun jumping, and give yourself a chance.

Do you spend time in the landing area watching canopies land? Have you studied the different types, sizes and shapes, and see how they react to the conditions of the day?

What do you know about winds aloft? Do you check them every jumping day, and then compare your exit and opening point to that information, looking for correlation between the two?

Have you read Brian Germains book? Have you studied with a rigger to learn more about gear? Have you thought about any of the insructional videos available? Have you considered taking the coach course? Have you worked one-on-one with a coach, preferably one who can coach you in spotting, exits, freefall, and canopy control, all at the same time?

There's a lot you can do if you want to improve, but some of it will seem like work. However, if you do the work now, you'll be better preparred, and perform at a much higher level later on.

[diablopilot 2]

Nothing wrong with always considering yourself a student. I still do.

You make it down Texas way, I'll spend a week with ya to help you learn some of the finer points.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[D22369 0]

Ok so you have 90 jumps or so that you have managed to remain current...

at that level or even the 140 you have total your still learning...

being dragged by the wind is embarrassing but there is a lesson there if your open to it.


I've read the SIMS a few times, have over 2 hours of tunnel time and have attended 1 canopy course and am scheduled for another with Brian Germaine. ***

this tells me your serious about improving your skills - now all you need is more time/jumps.

without flying with you I cant say for sure whether your being too hard on yourself and your perceived flaws, but by what your wrote and where you are in jumps I am thinking that you are beating yourself up over nothing.

If you can manage to jump with very experienced jumpers then do so - you will learn more than you will with jumpers around your own level plus more than likely get better feedback on what did or did not work.

if your not a hazard to yourself or others then give yourself time... the skills will come - and someday when your sitting on a ton of jumps you will be able to relate to the lowtimers who are struggling with real or perceived faults.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[stratostar 5]

I wouldn't worry much about not able to spot worth a damn, hell you'd be hard pressed at some places to even find anyone who can spot let alone teach it.

"we go on the green light, stupid"....

And as for wipe'n out a landing and getting dragged, well, shit happens..... sooner of later your going to crash land..... now you could solve both problems at once, it would not only teach you how to spot for real and make you real good at it or good at walking, and getting dragged on landing was a real part of the FJC for a reason.

Start jumping a round parachute.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Muffie 0]

Just another thought to share with you. I was talking to one of the very experienced guys at my dz about progressing and learning in the sport and he told me when he was a new jumper he found another new jumper and they committed to doing 50 2-way jumps together and it was one of the best things he did for his skills. Consistently jumping with one person lets you work together to progress. You can come down, discuss the jump, and then work on whatever didn't work the time before. As opposed to jumping with different people all the time or jumping in larger groups where you spend half the jump just trying to figure out where everyone is. I could see how you could easily get to 200 jumps that way without really building a good skill set and it would have nothing to do with your inherent ability.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

committed to doing 50 2-way jumps together and it was one of the best things he did for his skills.

This is a terrific idea. I know that for me, my skills improved first by committing to "quality" jumps, but one thing that really made a difference was being on an 8-way team last year. Despite a couple personnel changes, it was a pretty stable group throughout the year, with a world-class player-coach, focused training for 4+ hours of tunnel time and 100ish jumps.

I really wish I'd done a team earlier. Of course, making the commitment to be on a team can be a big one (both in time and finances) that won't work for everyone, but the idea of having a set group that you work with to focus on skills, even if it's just one jump day a month, is a great one.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Joellercoaster 6]

I know you're a little past the new-A-license stage, but have a listen to the interview in Skydive Radio #115 (link from this page).

You're not alone, keep going, plenty of good advice in this thread already.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Ron 7]

Quote

I know I might get blasted for posting this type inquiry in the forum

Anyone that blasts you for asking an honest question is an ass.

Quote

But with all of this I still feel I am lackluster and deficient in knowledge and skills

Welcome to the club! I have a national record in 16way RW and I STILL am working on RW.

Quote

I still cant spot worth a crap.

Have you actually worked on this? Gotten an Instructor (that actually knows how to do this, many don't have a freaking clue) to discuss this with you?

Go find a guy with a PRO rating, or an old style and accuracy guy and buy him a beer and ask him how to spot. Then start doing hop n pops working on this new skill till you feel good about it.

Quote

I dont land "off", but on average I land more than 30 ft further than I plan.

30FT????? Big deal. Really, this is nothing.

Quote

Last year I made over 90 jumps.

90 is not really a lot, not bad, but not a lot.

Look at it this way.... you have about 2hrs of practice in a high speed sport. 2 HOURS!!!!! That is NOTHING when compared to other activities.

How good of a driver do you think you would be if you only had two hours of instruction? You do know that pilots have to have 40 HOURS to get a pilots license right?

1. Ease up on yourself.
2. Get spotting/accuracy coaching.
3. Ease up on yourself.

Yes, I know what it says.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[thrillstalker 0]

you have made over 140 skydives and havent killed yourself or others. seems like you are doing good!

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[demoknite 0]

This might blow you (and most members of dz.com) away but...

There is nothing wrong with being a casual skydiver. If you have enough skills to jump with others safely, fly your canopy and land safely, which is what your A license says you can do, then there is nothing wrong with coming to the DZ on the odd weekend, getting on some organized loads, do a little bit socializing and call it day.

We have sort of created this culture in which if you arent coming to the DZ every weekend doing 8 jumps per day, going to skills camps, and racking up tunnel time when your dz is in its off season, then why did you even take up skydiving in the first place. There is nothing wrong with being casual and finding your own way in the sport.

[guppykf 0]

First off thanks to everyone for each of your advice. I am just feeling a little overwhelmed in regards to the recent incidents, watching students with 20 jumps land without popping up and sliding in and me scratching my gear up; I dont want to hurt anyone or myself due to being deficient.

Krisanne-Yes I have a canopy course scheduled with Brian Germain end of May. I did one last year as well and definately improved, but you are right repetition is the key to success. Yeah unfortunately due to work and family schedule a team is not in my near future. I think some of the skill thing is due to cessna DZ..you jump with who's there and when you can get between a tandem. Its often different people each time. The DZO recently stated he wanted to jump with lower number of licensed jumpers more cause I think he sees us struggling; its just hard for him to fit us in with the quantity of other students(tandem and AFF)

Dave- In regards to spotting- I think my biggest issue is I am not good a judging distances visually and I honestly cant feel tell wind direction (unless its strong) without the socks, etc. but you are right I haven't asked for specific instruction; I have been trying to figure it out on my own. I've asked questions like where are we getting out, but didnt ask how the decision was derived. I passed my spotting portion of my "A" by remembering where the spot was. I didnt take the personal responsibility to inform my instructor I still didnt understand how it was calculated. Its on me and I should have spoken upp. Next time I'm at the DZ I'm going to hook up with someone and get detailed re-instruction. I will let you know how it pans out. No, I haven't read Brian's book, but am attending his canopy class next month where I will receive one.

Muffie- great idea...i have one guy I have over 25 jumps with but we do add others in all the time which does change things. We like each of the other up jumpers a lot as well and dont want to leave someone out. its a small DZ and we are limited on number of up jumpers ..know what I mean?

Roy- Your post put things into perspective-I know even with hundreds/thousands of jumps I will still always be a "student" as I am in life as well. I was just getting scared due to the incidents as of late and watching students land better than me.

Again, thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. I got a call today stating my gear has been repaired, so I hope to get up in the sky soon and not allow Mr. Wind grab me in the future *fingers crossed*

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[sarahh 0]

hey, i would also keep in mind that all you need is an "overall" improvement from jump one.

i am by no means "experienced" but i find there are weeks that i just can't get my shit together and everything i do sucks. I try to remember that each thing that goes "wrong" teaches me something, and that the wheel will turn eventually.

it's really easy to get discouraged when you see such incidents, but if you look closely, there is something to be learned from each one.

EVERYONE makes mistakes. When i had 25 jumps, i was nearly wiped out by a D-Licence holder who had target fixation and didn't see me.. There is ALWAYS something to learn, and ALWAYS someone who knows something you don't .
be proud that you are intact... every jump you do which allows you to jump again is a good one :)

Good luck, and keep following the path you are on. And don't be afraid to track down a pilot to help you out with spotting and aircraft balance and safety. THey are a largely untapped resource that are more than willing to help in most cases

[jackwallace 3]

#1 criteria for any jump- You walk back. Seems you got that covered.
#2 Were you smiling when you land? If yes stay. If not leave.
After that everything is just show biz.
I've seen people come down after 10 point 4 way or a 5 point 50 way all crabby cause of some small problem.
Then I've seen two guys that were jumpin around, laughin, high five'in cause they touched each other in freefall. Who's doing right?

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

[guppykf 0]

good point!

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[Joellercoaster 6]

Quote

Then I've seen two guys that were jumpin around, laughin, high five'in cause they touched each other in freefall. Who's doing right?

Maybe, all of them.

Some people like obsessing over little 4-way details too

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

Quote

#1 criteria for any jump- You walk back. Seems you got that covered.
#2 Were you smiling when you land? If yes stay. If not leave.
After that everything is just show biz.
I've seen people come down after 10 point 4 way or a 5 point 50 way all crabby cause of some small problem.
Then I've seen two guys that were jumpin around, laughin, high five'in cause they touched each other in freefall. Who's doing right?

I like this.

On a similar note, I've had newer jumpers beating themselves up after a jump for "screwing it up".
I always ask:
"Did we land safely and unhurt?"
"Did we learn anything?"
"Did we have fun?"

The answer is always "yes", and I reply: "Then it was a successful skydive."
Everything else is details. I have never had a jump go exactly as planned. Some were close to the plan and others...

Not so much.

As long as I landed safely, had fun and learned something, then the jump was successful.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo