frost 1 #26 August 24, 2005 Quote . I see it as a given that that swooper will crater in, its only a matter of time. Maybe a day, week, month or a year, but I have witnessed it more often then not as a given, not a possibility, it just takes more time to happen then when a trigger is pulled. When is your turn?SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #27 August 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." 49% of all skydivers are better than average. I wonder if that shit comes from the PC post jump debriefs? You know, when the coach first explains to a newer jumper all the good things he or she did? And only THEN he goes on to the bad shit (which was most of the jump anyway). Could it be that by promoting this "you are doing well" mentality, we are creating the "I am better then most" attitude?SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #28 August 25, 2005 QuoteCould it be that by promoting this "you are doing well" mentality, we are creating the "I am better then most" attitude? I don't think so. People without a lot of faith in their own ability to handle things don't tend to jump out of airplanes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #29 August 25, 2005 QuoteQuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." 49% of all skydivers are better than average. You can have 100% of them that are average. It depends on what the standards are for average. Numbers have nothing to do with it. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #30 August 25, 2005 QuoteI ordered a 168 reluctantly .....but am 'happy' that this is the right thing to do...( I will load a 168 at 1.4-1.5)....... QuoteWingloading / Number of Jumps 1.0 / <100 1.1 / 100-199 1.2 / 200-299 1.3 / 300-399 1.4 / 400-499 1.5 / 500-599 1.6 / 600-699 1.7 / 700-799 1.8 / 800-899 1.9 / 900-999 2.0 / 1000+ Substract at least one point for every 2000feet of elevation or density altitude above mean see level If you fly in a location that often experiences conditions of low air pressure due to high temperature and humidity, you should reduce the WNE by at least one point. Substract two points for canopies under150 square feet. by BG SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #31 August 25, 2005 it's cognitive dissonance. Your sister is bound to learn about it during her Psych classes. I suffer from cognitive dissonance when it comes to smoking. I know it's bad for me, I could get certain lung cancers, most likely will get emphasyma (?sp) as well, but I still do it. It's an interesting feature of human psychology, unfortunately not much by-standers can do about it, either when it comes to smokers or to those choosing the tiny canopy. tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,678 #32 August 25, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." 49% of all skydivers are better than average. You can have 100% of them that are average. It depends on what the standards are for average. Numbers have nothing to do with it. Sparky If that were true BJ could invite 5 jump wonders on the 400 way and be just as likely to succeed. The very existence of the WL table you quoted above indicates that all skydivers are NOT the same and that numbers DO have something to do with it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowie 0 #33 August 25, 2005 QuoteQuoteCould it be that by promoting this "you are doing well" mentality, we are creating the "I am better then most" attitude? I don't think so. People without a lot of faith in their own ability to handle things don't tend to jump out of airplanes. I think alot of it has to do with the rapid loss of fear from the intial couple of jumps to say 30jumps + . I was bricking it for the first few jumps but by jump 20 I was pretty comfy on the way up and no worries going out the door. Which is the right reaction - bricking it or casually going out the door. If something doesnt open up and slow you down your screwed and yet I still dont feel apprehensive. I find I have to check/question myself to make sure I'm being realistic and not egotistical. If I was still fearing the door like the first few jumps I sure as hell wouldnt need talking to twice on matters of safety or my ability to do certain dives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #34 August 25, 2005 QuoteNo. YES. If you read my post.......I was saying that in that thread about the incident, alot of people said that that guy would have hooked himself in whether on a 150 or a 170. The "SAME THING" was the "Hook In" that would have happened under either canopy, that was what was said and that was what I was repeating. Whether he hooked himself in at 60 mph on a 150 or 50 mph on a 170, either way, THE SAME THING was gonna happen, he was gonna hook himself in. You are correct that a botched hook under a 170 will come in slower than a 150, but that was not what I was talking about at all. As long as we are on the subject, you could hook a tandem 400 at a 1:1 ratio and do just as much damage as on a 150 with the same loading. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #35 August 25, 2005 QuoteWhen is your turn? I dunno, but I know its out there waiting for me. I am conscious of that fact every jump I make. It could be my next jump, it could be 5000 jumps from now, but I know it will happen. If you swoop, it will happen to you too, its just a matter of time. Every swooper takes a divot out of the landing area at one point or another. My favorite egotists are the ones with over a 1000 jumps that think they have some how gotten past the danger zone of canopy flight.........Just because someone has 2000 jumps doesnt mean they wont divot in the landing area....... If you ran down the list of PST competitors, you'd hear a "who's who" of crater stories as they honed thier skills to get where they are at today. To be able to walk away from hooking yourself in, versus getting an ambulance or a life flight to the ER, is who wins the tug of war, ego or survival instinct. Going to a HP canopy course helps alot too. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2fat2fly 0 #36 August 25, 2005 QuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." And the response is "We old guys are still here"I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #37 August 25, 2005 This has been a very helpful thread. I am going to add "What's the worst thing that can happen to you under the smaller canopy?" to my questions. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #38 August 25, 2005 Quote A few others: "i am in tune with my body" - my personal favorite..... Hey! Was that one mine?... I think that one was mine! My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,678 #39 August 25, 2005 Quoteit's cognitive dissonance. Your sister is bound to learn about it during her Psych classes. I suffer from cognitive dissonance when it comes to smoking. I know it's bad for me, I could get certain lung cancers, most likely will get emphasyma (?sp) as well, but I still do it. It's an interesting feature of human psychology, unfortunately not much by-standers can do about it, either when it comes to smokers or to those choosing the tiny canopy. tash More psychology: www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #40 August 25, 2005 Quoteit's cognitive dissonance. Your sister is bound to learn about it during her Psych classes. I suffer from cognitive dissonance when it comes to smoking. I know it's bad for me, I could get certain lung cancers, most likely will get emphasyma (?sp) as well, but I still do it. It's an interesting feature of human psychology, unfortunately not much by-standers can do about it, either when it comes to smokers or to those choosing the tiny canopy. tash I'm not sure cognitive dissonance works as an excuse for all smokers. I simply didnt care when I smoked. CD seems a lot more dramatic and is much more fun to induce and remove TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #41 August 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." 49% of all skydivers are better than average. Shouldn't that actually be 49% are better than the median? After all, there are a few REALLY good skydivers that blow the curveillegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #42 August 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." And the response is "We old guys are still here" I mark it all up to the immortality of youth. There is a good reason why young males have to pay so much for car insurance, and why it drops dramatically when you get in your late 20's and get married. Whe you're young, risks appear remote and you have great reflexes and a tough body. As you get older and have seen more s#!t happen, you get a little wiser. I'm here still partly by luck. I wouldn't want to see my kids try the same stuff I did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 August 26, 2005 QuoteThere is a good reason why young males have to pay so much for car insurance, and why it drops dramatically when you get in your late 20's Sadly, my turning that age coincided with the drop of the stock markets and the dramatic rise in insurance rates, so I had to fiddle with deductables and coverage areas to stay even on car insurance. Motorcycle went up substantially. (this with an incident free record) Where's my discount!? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,678 #44 August 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteUsually the conversation from Jumper 2 also includes something like "I'm a quick learner", or "I'm better than the average jumper", or "You old guys are to conservative." 49% of all skydivers are better than average. Shouldn't that actually be 49% are better than the median? After all, there are a few REALLY good skydivers that blow the curve Q. What is the difference between average, mean, median, and mode? A.: Mean is one kind of average. It is computed by summing the values and dividing by the number of values. Two other common forms of averages are the mode and the median. The mode is the frequently occurring value in a set. The median is the middle value of the set when they are ordered by rank.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wgrayw 0 #45 August 30, 2005 Tom, PM me. Gray Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
