USPA membership question

[nigel99 144]

As a USPA member is there an agreement in place that we as members abide by the SIM?

I am a member of a couple of professional bodies and part of being a member requires that you uphold the standards of the organisation, failure to do so can mean expulsion.

I am curious, as I am now a member of both the APF and USPA. As you would expect the two organisations have different restrictions in place. In some cases the APF is stricter than the USPA and in other area's the USPA sets the higher threshold.

This means that I can disregard aspects of the SIM if I chose to quite legitimately over here. The easiest examples are 100 jumps minimum for camera and different currency recommendations.

My nature is to merge the two and always let the most restrictive rules apply. But it would be interesting to know if the USPA 'expects' its members to adhere to the SIM.

[Squeak 17]

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As a USPA member is there an agreement in place that we as members abide by the SIM?

I am a member of a couple of professional bodies and part of being a member requires that you uphold the standards of the organisation, failure to do so can mean expulsion.

I am curious, as I am now a member of both the APN and USPA. As you would expect the two organisations have different restrictions in place. In some cases the APN is stricter than the USPA and in other area's the USPA sets the higher threshold.

This means that I can disregard aspects of the SIM if I chose to quite legitimately over here. The easiest examples are 100 jumps minimum for camera and different currency recommendations.

My nature is to merge the two and always let the most restrictive rules apply. But it would be interesting to know if the USPA 'expects' its members to adhere to the SIM.

I assume you mean APF and not APN (dont know what that is)

Whilst jumping in OZ you are governed by the APF, and subject to their rules and regs. When I am jumping in the states i am a member of the USPA, for 3rd party insurance reasons and whilst in the US i abide by their governance.
However in respect to jumping a camera with less than the required jumps in the States, I can't factually comment, as all my trips there have been as a higher rated license holder.

But from my experience with several DZ around the world, it is often at the DZs' i am attending discretion

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[nigel99 144]

Thanks Squeak APF - bit of a brain fart there!

Yes I fully realise that in Oz the APF rules are king.
But in some organisations when you join to commit to uphold their standards.

I intend to maintain my USPA membership (if for no other reason than I like the mag). So while in Oz I am REQUIRED to meet the APF minimums where the USPA has a higher minimum, does the USPA 'expect' me to follow them?

It is purely academic as there is no USPA body for about 5000 miles. Of course I could chose to put my USPA B license number in my profile and jump my GO-PRO this weekend - and post on DZ.com. I really don't want to drag this into a typical dz.com camera thread...

We could pick on the currency requirements as another example. USPA 30/60/90 days or 6 months depending on your license. APF is 6 jumps a year regardless. Of course I acknowledge the fact that different DZ's may chose to enforce their own policies.

[Squeak 17]

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Thanks Squeak APF - bit of a brain fart there!

Yes I fully realise that in Oz the APF rules are king.
But in some organisations when you join to commit to uphold their standards.

I intend to maintain my USPA membership (if for no other reason than I like the mag). So while in Oz I am REQUIRED to meet the APF minimums where the USPA has a higher minimum, does the USPA 'expect' me to follow them?

The USPA has NO governance over you whilst you are in OZ and jumping under an APF membership

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[nigel99 144]

Ok that is interesting.

I'm a Chartered Engineer in the UK and although that counts for naught here in Oz (unless I bothered to convert it), if I was found to breach the code of ethics while here. I could technically have my status revoked.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

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Ok that is interesting.

I'm a Chartered Engineer in the UK and although that counts for naught here in Oz (unless I bothered to convert it), if I was found to breach the code of ethics while here. I could technically have my status revoked.

There's a bit of difference between a professional certification (that's what being "Chartered" means, right?) and USPA membership.

And getting a USPA license or membership revoked really does take a major incident. And that major incident usually has to be publicized and widely criticized (or legally sanctioned) too.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[crotalus01 0]

As of right now, the camera "restriction" of 200+ jumps is simply a recommendation, not a BSR. As such, anyone with a license can choose to jump a camera regardless of their jump numbers, assuming the DZ they are at lets them.
As far as currency requirements, it has been my (limited) experience that this is largely dependent on the DZ as well. I have been to one that wanted me to jump with a coach to get current, been to one that gave me an EP refresher and told me to go do a solo, and one that asked if I wanted a refresher before making a 4 way for my first jump in 3 months.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[ufk22 32]

SIM=Skydivers INFORMATION Manual, not the skydivers regulation manual.
The only part of the SIM that, if violated COULD endanger your membership in USPA are the BSR's, Basic Safety REQUIREMENTS (and the chance of that is unlikely).
Everything else is just good advice.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[theplummeter 14]

In the US, the FAA is the group with authority to regulate what you do in the sky (Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 105), and their reach is very limited in terms of the details of actual skydiving.

USPA membership and dropzone participation is entirely voluntary, as are the Basic Safety Regulations that the association has agreed upon.

In my opinion, dropzones, the USPA, and jumpers coming together to apply common sense and self police the sport without outside government involvement is one of the coolest aspects of this activity.

[nigel99 144]

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SIM=Skydivers INFORMATION Manual, not the skydivers regulation manual.
The only part of the SIM that, if violated COULD endanger your membership in USPA are the BSR's, Basic Safety REQUIREMENTS (and the chance of that is unlikely).
Everything else is just good advice.

Point taken. In my view the USPA are missing a trick though. As part of our membership we SHOULD have an undertaking. Something like "to abide by the recommendations in the SIM, promote best practice in the sport, and uphold the laws of the governing body where we jump".

[SansSuit 1]

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Point taken. In my view the USPA are missing a trick though. As part of our membership we SHOULD have an undertaking. Something like "to abide by the recommendations in the SIM, promote best practice in the sport, and uphold the laws of the governing body where we jump".

A hint as to why it is what it is might be B.) of the Introduction, "... the recommendations ... are put forth as guidance and are not mandatory. Moreover, a deviation from these recommendations does not necessarily imply negligence and is not to be used in a court of law to demonstrate negligence."

If compliance with the SIM was mandatory (regardless of enforceability), the above might not work.

Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

[jshiloh 0]

Got news for you...it doesn't matter one bit what the USPA says on the matter. Whether or not something constitutes negligence and whether or not it can be used in a court of law is up the judge/courts. The USPA doesn't set law, they don't interpret law, they don't enforce law. While they do heavily lobby state & federal governments, it's ultimately not their determination as to what is/isn't negligence and what is/isn't admissible in court.

[michaelmullins 77]

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As a USPA member is there an agreement in place that we as members abide by the SIM?

I am a member of a couple of professional bodies and part of being a member requires that you uphold the standards of the organisation, failure to do so can mean expulsion.

I am curious, as I am now a member of both the APF and USPA. As you would expect the two organisations have different restrictions in place. In some cases the APF is stricter than the USPA and in other area's the USPA sets the higher threshold.

This means that I can disregard aspects of the SIM if I chose to quite legitimately over here. The easiest examples are 100 jumps minimum for camera and different currency recommendations.

My nature is to merge the two and always let the most restrictive rules apply. But it would be interesting to know if the USPA 'expects' its members to adhere to the SIM.

As a USPA Member you are only required to comply with the Basic Safety Requirements (BSRs) which are Section 2 of the SIM. EVERYTHING else in the SIM are recommendations and the two examples you provide are only recommendations. BTW, contrary to common belief, there are no currency requirements in the BSRs.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

[nigel99 144]

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As a USPA Member you are only required to comply with the Basic Safety Requirements (BSRs) which are Section 2 of the SIM. EVERYTHING else in the SIM are recommendations and the two examples you provide are only recommendations. BTW, contrary to common belief, there are no currency requirements in the BSRs.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

Mike, thanks for the currency observation.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.