Am I a danger to myself?

[wellsheet 0]

Bit of a shitty situation recently. I'm a student, very well versed in my EPs - know exactly what to do and have been in "dodgy" situations before: i.e. I've been blown backwards towards power lines and landed off thanks to sudden high winds but I kept my cool and did the right things.

BUT, recently I had an opening that threw me around a little and started spinning me around. My first instinctive reaction was "shit I don't want to cut away, I'll ride this to the ground"

Literally shocked myself - it was like it wasn't me thinking it but some part of my brain that I didn't realise was there.

The canopy then just sorted itself out - this all happened within 1 second max. Like, open, throw around, grab risers "shit don't wanna cutaway il ride this one down, oh its fine, what the fuck was that about not cutting away!"

What worries me is that if that had been a malfunction would I have cut away or would I have still just been scared to do anything!

It wasn't a rational thought - rationally I know I need to cutaway if my canopy doesn't pass the tests, I'm prepared to and I practice constantly. I know my reserve is the best fucking canopy on my back, and it's packed to perfection. But my instinctive reaction in that first split second was pure terror (understandable and normal) and then a refusal to cutaway (completely irrational, not normal and fucking dangerous/lethal).

The only thing I can think of is that because there was a complete canopy over my head I must of subconsciously thought "oh it won't be as dangerous to stick with it than to trust a yet unopened canopy". I think my thought process would have been a lot different with an absolutely unsurvivable malfunction (like a bag lock).

What does worry me is that I don't know if it had continued to spin out of control whether I would have fixed up and cutaway.

Has anyone else had a similar irrational and completely unexpected thought before cutting away a "slow" malfunction? Everyone I've spoken to seems to say that they didn't have to think, it was instinctive and they weren't scared.

I'm hoping that it was just one of those stupid irrational thoughts that would have cleared up had the canopy actually being malfunctioning. Because if not I need to quit this sport before I kill myself.

Anyone got any advice/similar story? I don't want to quit but if I'm going to lock up in an emergency I need to get the fuck out. There are too many people who have died because they haven't cutaway.

[sundevil777 93]

Realizing that such fear of cutting away can creep into your thoughts (and for you it did) is I think crucial to beating that fear. This fear may have killed many.

Much about this subject in this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4519677#4519677

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PixieUK 0]

wellsheet

BUT, recently I had an opening that threw me around a little and started spinning me around. My first instinctive reaction was "shit I don't want to cut away, I'll ride this to the ground"

Literally shocked myself - it was like it wasn't me thinking it but some part of my brain that I didn't realise was there.

Obviously I can't comment on the skydiving aspect as I've never been in that situation. However, having been in life-threatening situations more than once where my brain went into overdrive, I imagine from your reactions to the other scenarios and later in that jump, that you would be fine. You didn't go to pieces, you didn't 'forget' how to fly your canopy after such a shock and your rational mind kicked back in very quickly.

I had a scenario where I was sailing with my partner and we were unexpectedly caught in a gale at one of the worst possible places along the south coast of England (weather forecast was for winds dropping and it changed rapidly and unpredictably to go the other way). Seas were building, driving onshore winds, horrendous rip tides etc so on calling the harbour we'd intended to call in at and checking in with the coastguard, we quickly established the safest thing to do would be to head out offshore as far as we could to try to ride it out. Even though we'd trained for this and planned out how to cope with just such emergencies, my immediate and irrational thought was sheer panic and "I don't want to go offshore in a gale!" despite knowing that was the safest place to be (avoid running aground, less likely to be anything to hit). It literally lasted a couple of heart-stopping seconds as my brain desperately tried to work out how I could get in to harbour and tie up, then survival mode kicked in and I just got on with all the preparations I needed to do to keep us as safe as possible. The training took over - I didn't need to over-think anything, the steps were all there once that initial shock had hit and gone. And from everything else you've said, I think you would probably be similar.

You will never know how you will react until it actually happens but the very fact this happened to you and you've now got the time to sit and work it through makes me think it would be very unlikely that you would refuse to cutaway a malfunction. And my instructor has repeatedly told me that the reason why students deploy so high compared with other skydivers is precisely so they have time to deal with the shock of a malfunction, hesitate for a couple of seconds, then deal with it and still have plenty of time for the reserve to come out.

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[skydivecat 3]

Kudos to you for having the insight to ask that question.

As far as to the answer, I, and the most of the online personalities here aren't probably the best people to ask.

I have had one chop and one straight silver, in both instances I remember my thought process very concisely and I did not hesitate at all to go to my back up in either case. I think it is very common however to have some doubt and reservation to go there. Sit down with a trusted mentor or instructor at your home dz who knows you and your jumping. Ask them about bad situations they have been in, how they reacted, ect. Take them through what you went through, your thought process, and doubts now.

They would be the best person to help you make that judgment call. The fact that you are sitting here able to ask that question, and hopefully learn from the situation you were in, gives me enough for my opinion...

[ntrprnr 0]

I think this is yet another reason why we set hard decks and need to drill into our heads "if I'm at X without a usable canopy, that's it, end of discussion, go for reserve" over and over again.

I'm assuming you have a hard deck and were way above it at the time, right?

You don't want to make "well, maybe this'll sort itself out" the last thought you ever have.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Bertt 0]

You don't have to make a decision in 1 or 2 seconds. You have to give yourself a few seconds to wait for the "heart-stopping fear" to pass, then evaluate the situation and make a good decision. I bet if you get someone to help you practice your emergency procedures next time you're at the DZ, you'll see that you'll do just fine.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[joelgibson 0]

different gear? maybe a bit more snivelly than ur used to?

SCR 15113
USPA Coach-C
Hellfish 1004

[Koric101 0]

Just gotta give yourself a second to think about it and be rational. Just had a stuck slider (never happened before) and at first I didn't realize the mal, just that my canopy was not that pretty square it usually is. I remember my first that was that I didn't particularly want to cut away, but a split second later it went to, I've got a small window to figure it out and fix it or I will cut away, pumped the rears and it cleared. The situation is just not one you go through all the time and catches you off guard.

[Ron 7]

Quote

The canopy then just sorted itself out - this all happened within 1 second max. Like, open, throw around, grab risers "shit don't wanna cutaway il ride this one down, oh its fine, what the fuck was that about not cutting away!"

"After the pin is pulled, Mr Grenade is not our friend"

You need to accept that if your pretty life saving canopy is no longer pretty or life saving - it is best to throw it away quickly.

Get EXCITED about your first Mal.... They can be a lot of fun.

But yes, the thinking you had is the cause for a great many number of fatalities..... FIX IT.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[wellsheet 0]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

@PixieUK - I'm thinking that's how it was. I didn't really get to know whether I locked up or not. Obviously had it been 5 seconds (or more) of refusing to cutaway before the canopy calmed down then that would have been clear sign of
I shouldn't be doing this.

Its good to know that other people have experienced the same thing in other life-threatening situations and yet have gone onto perform their training.

I guess it's the animal brain freaking out before the automatic training kicks in.

@Bertt and Koric101 - that's good advice. It is pretty shocking and sudden when it happens and is a "rare" event, so I guess its pretty normal to have a sudden panicky and weird emotional reaction in the first second.

@Ron - I like the grenade quote. A malfunctioning canopy is not my friend!

I'll work on changing my feelings towards looking forward to a malfunction: it's probably going to happen at some point so enjoy it!

Thankfully the experience has given me an anchor point for the fear when a canopy starts looking unlandable - it will help me to visualise the event and then visualise myself snapping out of it and performing my EPs.

Thanks all

[dthames 0]

Some people say, "Don't learn to skydive on the Internet". Or maybe, "Get off the Internet and listen to your instructors".

In many cases that might be the best advice. But DZ.com is what I consider part of my peer group. Over and over we see where people make bac choices like you are concerned with.

I had about 50 seconds to work a low speed malfunction. I never really thought about cutting away until I went under 2500. I kept working it and at 2000, I said thought, "rats, I don't want to do this but I am going to".....and I did my EPs. I didn't want to because it was just line twists. Line twists that I had not been able to resolve.

The repeated low cutaways and bad decisions primed me to do exactly what my careful mind would say to do. All emotions aside, just do what you are trained to do. Maybe that is just too simple.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[DrDom 0]

wellsheet

Bit of a shitty situation recently.

Dont look at it as much as a shitty situation as a successful learning opportunity and one that led to some deep questions and introspection.

I'm VERY new to the sport (newer than you, trust me) and am more afraid of fear than anything. Just remember that EVERY day we are forced to make life and death decisions (do I make a left turn when that truck looks awfully fast coming at me? Do i cross the street here? Do I buy that questionable burrito from the food truck?). You experienced some form of internal error in which you either stopped taking in more stimulus ("not sure what is wrong but I'm going to ride it out") or grounded ("I'm NOT cutting away"), when you should have been in the "5 seconds and if no better will clear, now... what is happening?". Its unfortunately a normal response for the human psyche and that fight-or-flight response can cause us to make some BAD decisions.

Remember that a cutaway is never anything to be ashamed of. Rather feel silly than feel the ground at high speed. But also remember that often you can sort out the problem by taking a breath and turning off primitive brain in favour of thinking brain.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[nadominhoca 0]

"Remember that a cutaway is never anything to be ashamed of. Rather feel silly than feel the ground at high speed. But also remember that often you can sort out the problem by taking a breath and turning off primitive brain in favour of thinking brain".

DrDom, I think being ashamed is not the question here... the point is: F**** cutting away is my last chance, should I try to work a little bit more on my main malfunction before cutting away?!?!

As someone said, in my case I have a decision altitude, which still is the one that I was taught in my AFF ground course, 2,500ft!! If I can't deal with my malfunction until that altitude, that's it.. cut away!!

That's why altitude awereness is important!!!! Even with a perfect canopy above your head, after a soft deployment.. keep trakking your canopy every 5 seconds or so... a lot of people forget that!! specially students and new licensed guys...

[DrDom 0]

As long as you stick to your hard deck, its your call to decide if its worth trying to clear.

Nobody can decide but you :)

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[yarpos 4]

Dont know if its practical or affordable in your case, but one thing I did before I ever had a real malfunction was to do a practice cutaway with a spare reserve on board. I just wanted to have the experience and wanted to verify my reserve/weight choice was OK.

Later on when I had more jumps and eventually things got sporty on a couple of them I had no second thoughts on reserve use. I have no clue if it would have been an issue anyway but I do know that I felt more at ease and knowledgeable about my gear after I had used all of it.

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was